Please help! :-)

My Scion of the Ur-Dragon EDH deck was the first one I built, and it's always great to see another one, especially one as good as yours. Some recommendations I have based on things that have worked out well for me are Cauldron Dance , Coalition Relic , Gurzigost , Time of Need , Disaster Radius , and Profane Command . Check out the rest of my list and maybe you'll get some other ideas.

Hey thanks! I didn't think anyone would check this deck out haha. I'm constantly tweaking it and of course the mana base is a long pursuit, with duals and fetches being a years-long struggle haha. I've been tweaking the deck recently and I think I've almost optimized it, not counting the mana base. I've actually been taking out a lot of removal for cards that make the deck win faster and more streamlined, etc. the changes I want to make right now are:Graveborn Muse for Phyrexian Arena , Sneak Attack for Aura Shards , and maybe Crucible of Worlds for Terminus . Lastly, I might want to switch out Warstorm Surge , even though it's a possible win condition, for a different card, like card:Sensei's Divining Top, card:Yawgmoth's Will, or card:Eladamri's Call. What do you think? I've kind of avoided the cards that put cards from my yard back into my library because it's a really heavy recursion theme. Plus I have card:Volrath's Stronghold.

And this was the first deck I built too, but I got tired of reanimating dragons with what I had, so I switched to Sliver Queen , but it durdled and didn't DO anything. So I decided to make it more optimal and it's been a lot more fun to play so far. This has been a work in progress the last 4 years basically

I've thought about Cauldron Dance , but it's never even able to make it into the deck. Perhaps this time :-). Also, I really like Coalition Relic , don't own it tho. And Disaster Radius seems viable for a sweeper for sure. Gurzigost would be great if I focused on putting dragons back in the deck from the yard to reuse with scion, perhaps that may be a future direction.

Elvish Piper would benefit you

Thanks Zifier, yea one problem I've been running into lately has been dragons being kind of stuck in my hand when I draw them. I ramp a bunch, but you can only hardcast so many dragons per turn haha. I put in Survival of the Fittest for that reason. The "into play from your hand" ability is something I'm looking more at...I'm actually collecting cards for a deck based around that: Show and Tell , Hypergenesis , Sneak Attack , Quicksilver Amulet , Braids, Conjurer Adept , Elvish Piper , Natural Order , Dramatic Entrance , etc. maybe have Maelstrom Wanderer as a general, idk.

Very nice work! There are a few creatures that can help you get more out of your goal of sneaking in creatures.

Think about adding Maelstrom Archangel . She works well with card advantage and sneaks things in every time she hits her mark.

Kaalia of the Vast could help if you have a ton of dragons or that angel in your hand, and she's pretty cheap to cast as well if you have the colors.

Sheoldred, Whispering One might have a target on her head, but adding cards like Asceticism will ensure that you get your fill of recursion and creature hate.

Also things like Ghostway and Cauldron of Souls are especially helpful if you find yourself at the brunt of a boardwipe

+1 and If you need any ideas or can help improve on my current setup, feel free to have a look at my scion deck Scion is RawrFaced!

Thanks MidnightDragon! Yea, I forgot about Maelstrom Archangel , I'm looking to put that card in my new cheat-fatties-into-play deck I've been working on. I'm currently trying to find a spot for Entomb but Im having a bit of trouble deciding what I'd take out. Was thinking maybe card:Summoner's Pact.

I used to run Privileged Position in the deck, but I took it out for the same reason as I took out Cryptic Command : it slowed down what I wanted the deck to do--namely, throw dragons at people very quickly :-). Plus I don't mind if my stuff hits the graveyard. But I like my enchantments, so maybe Replenish ?

Aye aye aye, what to do what to do haha

Cards I would drop: Krosan Tusker , Graveborn Muse

If you don't find yourself consistently landing dragons, you might want to drop Warstorm Surge .

Why not use Worldly Tutor ?

40 lands seems a bit much. You might cut 2 or 3 and try the deck like that.

It seems like the deck is very light in the removal department. How do you deal with threats on the board?

So all those are excellent points indeed. I used to run an excessive amount of removal, but I found that the deck didn't do what I wanted it to consistently. It was more of a control deck with a ton of wraths and graveyard removal into mass recursion. I got tired of it but wanted to keep the deck somehow. I decided on a relentless attack-type of deck. I've attempted to put all of my removal, tempo, control, disruption, and protection on dragons: Balefire Dragon , Flameblast Dragon , Hoard-Smelter Dragon , Yosei, the Morning Star , Keiga, the Tide Star , Steel Hellkite , Bogardan Hellkite , Quicksilver Dragon , Nicol Bolas , and [[skithiryx, the blight dragon].

So those take care of a vast majority of threats, except I admit I'm a little light on enchantment removal with only Krosan Grip and Steel Hellkite to deal with them; however, the deck usually works very quickly and unless multiple people hate it at once before i gain board presence, it can become almost overwhelming.

But that's just what I've noticed in my large meta. The deck's weaknesses are obviously counterspells and sometimes graveyard hate, from what I can gather from playing.

Cards i've been considering removing have been Cavern of Souls (hasn't web as effective as I'd hoped--I generally name Titan to get Primeval Titan out safely. Occasionally I'll name dragon for my general.), card:Summoner's Pact (for a Worldly Tutor maybe), and maybe Warstorm Surge (it usually has dragons available though, by tutors, drawing, or recursion). I put in Graveborn Muse in place of Phyrexian Arena because it's a body for 4. Krosan Tusker has been decent in place of I think card:Kodama's Reach since it always comes back to play during the game.

Ok, enough of me defending/rationalizing my cards haha.

Which lands, given the goal and color density of the deck, would you take out? What cards would you consider replacing them with?

What would replacements for the muse and tusker be? I value card advantage and ramping very high in this deck, and in EDH in general. Am I valuing it too highly perhaps?

Card advantage and ramp are critical elements of a strong EDH deck. However, you must be sure that they don't become your sole focus - they cannot be allowed to cause the other facets of a deck to waver.

If money is no issue I'd go balls to the wall on the lands and include the Spectrum 30: the 10 original duals, 10 fetches, and 10 shocks. That leaves you approximately 6-8 slots for utility lands on top of that and creates a very stable, consistent, and proactive land base.

I would replace Graveborn Muse with Phyrexian Arena . The former is comparatively easy to kill and costs more to cast. card:Mind's Eye, Consecrated Sphinx , and Necropotence (a bit brutal on the mana curve and with a slight drawback of exiling your discards) are also worthy considerations for draw power.

I forgot that Krosan Tusker doesn't actually ramp...

I like all of your suggestions, plus your reasoning. I'm planning to put Phyrexian Arena back in for Graveborn Muse . I just got a little too excited about creature recursion haha. I had a Consecrated Sphinx in the deck but it always got killed or stolen instantly, plus none of my creatures hang around for very long as people tend to wrath when five dragons are on the board. But I might put it back in there for a land I remove. Still not sure which lands should go...

I'm planning to replace Krosan Tusker with card:Kodama's Reach.

About the land: I don't have budget restrictions overall, but it'll definitely take me a while to get the spectrum 30 haha. I've been working on it for a while. Also, I've heard from very talented players that it's extremely useful to have basic land in the deck in order to help ramp, and also to protect somewhat against Blood Moon , Ruination , Back to Basics , etc. What are other ramp options to replace Cultivate , Explosive Vegetation , and card:Kodama's Reach for nonbasics?

I've had card:Mind's Eye in the deck before, but it was very slow, plus it costed me mana each time. I've been considering Mystic Remora as a possibility.

I am a Scion player as well, although my list isn't online yet. Mine uses the Ravnica Signets as well as more options as far as Dragons go. I've noticed that an insane way to win with this deck is commander damage, like tutoring for a dragon with double strike. Also think about Loxodon Warhammer And Behemoth Sledge in this deck. LIfelink is an amazing way to stabilize with a deck with creatures as big as yours.

Yea I'm looking for an Imperial Hellkite for more double strike options. I'll consider Loxodon Warhammer , but I worry that it's more of a control card in this deck. If I have a dragon out with open mana to cast/equip the hammer, I should probably already be winning with other cards. Also, this deck uses a ton of ramp and Sneak Attack , which should in theory allow my dragons to come out by the time somebody throws down an Oracle of Mul Daya , for example.

The ravnica signets are good, but they're easily removed, whereas Skyshroud Claim 's resolution is unlikely to be interfered with. Plus they take up many card slots that might be able to house more useful/resilient cards. Not sure yet about them. Thanks for your tips!! :-). When you lost your deck let me know and I'll check it out!

ok. turn six kill foe this deck and its unbeilevable. once you get scoin out tap 4 mana and sack 2 creatures. 1st molten steel dragon and pay until he is buffed to 10/4 then use the second dragons effect which is the blight dragon which gives him infect and you have just won. i havent really checked this with an actual official but it seems legit

Ya I'm aware of the interaction. It can be very strong, I've just been fiddling with the deck a bit. Moltensteel Dragon is back in there. I had a bit too many lands in the deck, now it's pretty good, I'll see if it's not quite enough tho

I could also make him a Dragon Tyrant and pump him up +5. Many ways to get the job done :-)

Actually, I was here a time ago, but I didn't had a suggestion what to change because it seems pretty solid to me. You really need to playtest and change it according to your local players perhaps :D

Ah, and +1 for you, Sir!

Thx! And indeed, I need to find a Necrogenesis to replace Withered Wretch , also.

Or use a Scavenging Ooze . It's also a creature and can get rid of anything in graveyards. + Bonus on creatures.

Certainly haha. That's for when I have the cash for it haha. Necrogenesis will do better than Withered Wretch for now because it's much harder to kill as an enchantment.

I recently found out that Tamiyo, the Moon Sage 's emblem will return the tutored card to your hand and your scion will become a copy of that creatre as well. Worth it.