ThinkBoldly says... #2
I'm surprised there is a debate between Rattleclaw Mystic and Beastcaller Savant......This is a counter deck. Go with Honored Hierarch man. I've been playtesting this guy in a similar (Naya) deck I've been working on. Welcome to check it out, btw, here: Colossal Hydras. To be fair, in my deck the Honored Hierarchs may be better due to Dromoka's Command & Temur Battle Rage, but I still think you'd find it would be the winner of these three mana dorks (in this deck, specifically).
October 6, 2015 2:07 p.m.
ThinkBoldly says... #3
If you get the little buggers through while you already have a Hardened Scales on the battlefield, ya've got yourself a 3/3 mana dork, producing any color, with vigilance.
October 6, 2015 2:09 p.m.
ThinkBoldly says... #4
Also, I have found the Tango lands to be interesting. You only need a couple, instead of a playset. I would recommend running a playset of each fetch and only 2 of each tango. If it weren't for Drana, I'd recommend dropping your basics down to nearly all Forests since you can fetch for the other colors super easy with Tango lands in the mix (e.g. Wooded Foothills can fetch a Smoldering Marsh. How have you found the Llanowar Wastes to be working? I've opted for fetchable lands entirely in my deck, but I could see trying a couple Battlefield Forges if you've noticed the wastes are strong.
October 6, 2015 2:19 p.m.
This deck is pimp. I would give it 2 or maybe even 10 +1's if i could.
October 7, 2015 12:17 a.m.
Dravenator says... #6
This is awesome, I just brewed up a list very similar to this. One thing I might add but would like an opinion on is managorger hydra. If you could I would really appreciate if ya'll checked mine out. TY
October 8, 2015 5:09 p.m.
ThinkBoldly: I actually considered Honored Hierarch when beginning this brew but it just didn't seem to me that I could hit the renowned reliably, especially with Hardened Scales already filling a crucial 1 drop spot. How has he been working for you? I'd love to hear feedback on that. That's a really interesting idea on the tango/fetch front. I think I'll try that out for a few rounds of playtesting. In terms of Llanowar Wastes, I really like them, and I pretty much need them. Even though they can't be fetched, I really need a green/black land source in here. Also, this is still a pretty aggro deck, and it's a huge plus that they come in untapped. Thanks so much for the feedback, I hope I could help!
Morganic: thanks bruh
Dravenator: Thanks! In my opinion, Managorger Hydra is pretty much a must in counter decks, yes he's a 3 drop, and yes he can be a dud in the late game, but if you can get him out on curve, with Hardened Scales out, he becomes MASSIVE quickly. Also, the trample is crucial because it makes chump blocks highly ineffective. If you can stick a Hydra before they're prepared, you're on your way to a win.
October 8, 2015 5:29 p.m.
Quarkblast says... #8
if you splash the blue, either through Rattleclaw Mystic or through lands, w/e, Profaner of the Dead would be a useful card for you. My only other thoughts are that savant is kind of weak in the set up, and Inspiring Call definitely deserves a spot MB in this deck, that draw and protection is too good for you.
October 8, 2015 8:31 p.m.
Quarkblast: Wow, that's a really interesting thought. Profaner of the Dead is such a versatile card for this deck. I'll do some tinkering and see what a blue splash might look like. I agree about Beastcaller Savant. I keep flip-flopping back and forth between him and Mystic because neither has been great so far. However, the blue splash may just put Mystic over the edge. Also, you're right about Inspiring Call. I made some room MB for it. Thanks for the advice!
Edit: what would you recommend cutting for Profaner?
October 8, 2015 8:49 p.m. Edited.
Quarkblast says... #10
I would say swap Atarka for Profaner. Rather than just pinging out 5 damage, you can wipe their board state. Then swing through for game. Atarka is a nice finisher, and better as a standalone, but Profaner will have a much greater impact on board state mid-late game assuming you haven't been boardwiped into oblivion
October 8, 2015 8:57 p.m.
Quarkblast: literally just considered that myself. The swap has been made! Initially considered swapping for one Hangarback but then I returned to reality. Also: synergy between Profaner and Hangarback is CRAZY! Can't wait to try it out!
October 8, 2015 9 p.m.
Quarkblast says... #12
Also I would fill out 4 Inspiring Call between MB and SB. This will be a counter to every boardwipe short of Ugin. And not only would you save all your pesky critters, you would refill your hand as well.
October 8, 2015 9:05 p.m.
ThinkBoldly says... #13
So far, I've found it fairly consistent that I can play Honored Hierarch turn 1, Hardened Scales turn 2 and get the renown with 2 counters on turn 2. The exception is against burn and if the opponent has managed to get a chump 1/1 out. Typically, I can get them through turn 2 or 3 if I have a Temur Battle Rage in hand. I'm gonna be sideboarding a couple Servant of the Scale and a couple Undergrowth Champion for when burn is a problem or they really aren't getting through.
In regards to your most recent addition of Profaner of the Dead, I'd recommend throwing in a solitary Sunken Hollow into your mana base, as you'll be able to fetch for it with Bloodstained Mire and it will increase your consistency in producing blue dramatically.
October 8, 2015 9:12 p.m.
StormbreathFTW says... #14
i dont think the profaner is worth it at all. expecially without the sunken hallow. i wouldn't splash for 1 card in a already 3 color deck, and profaner just isn't a powerful enough card to make it worth it.
October 8, 2015 11:10 p.m.
PapaBear97 says... #15
So I've been playing with a build very similar to this deck, almost identical and I'm shifting some cards around too so i thought i'd share my experience.
First off if a mana dork is what youre looking for, look no further because Rattleclaw Mystic is so clutch, way better than savant in many ways my favorite being his morph. He grants huge mana, is nice for that 4th color for your Woodland Wanderer and throws the scent off of your Den Protectors.
Which brings me to my next point. Den Protector is boss. she gets her counters by herself, benefits huge from just one Hardened Scales and all her other effects need no introduction. Her synergy with Kolaghan's Command is super nasty. I think the deck should run 3-4 of her.
And 2-3 Kolaghan's Command AT LEAST!!! This card is excellent and synergizes with Den Protector, pops Hangarback Walker, and it's discard coupled with Transgress the Mind can leave an opponent top decking.
Transgress the Mind deserves 2 spots in the MB. Easily sided for Duress or Despise and I've gotten rid of things from Monastery Mentors to Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, Languish, and Radiant Flames. The list goes on but threats like that should be enough to sway you.
One Murderous Cut is quite good and what would be even better is Ruinous Path. Sorcery speed will have to be overlooked when Ob Nixilis Reignited and Jace, Telepath Unbound are the favorites this season. I'd have a couple of them like you, maybe more.
I like what you're trying to do with Inspiring Call but I don't like what you're doing with Profaner of the Dead. Your deck can so easily run Radiant Flames in the SB instead. Early aggression is rough with decks like these so I'd make the sideboard accordingly. Temur Battle Rage is really only good in this build for Shaman of the Great Hunt who, while being a HUGE part of the build can be otherwise be protected with good removal, which will be better for you all around. Drana, Liberator of Malakir is a nasty bitch, but with all the Hangarback Walkers going around it can be difficult for her to break the line. Any other situation and shes utterly insane, but even still i'd drop her down to 2.
And finally Hardened Scales is dope and all, but you really only need 1 out on the field and youre good. So i feel you can forfeit one. I remember i had 3 out by turn 2, got a 4/4 hangarback by turn 3. and it still didn't do me any good. Other times i would end up drawing it when i really needed a Ruinous Path or something. 24 lands, and 24 creatures was a good median for me.
I hope you find my suggestions useful. I'll be checking out this deck pretty often to help with my own build and i wish you luck brother
October 9, 2015 1:11 a.m.
ThinkBoldly: You make a very fair point. However, I think especially without Temur Battle Rage, it's just gonna be too hard for me to hit the trigger consistently enough, and Rattleclaw Mystic now even holds more value for me with the blue splash. Looking over this deck, I realized the same thing re: Sunken Hollow. I have made the swap. Thanks for the feedback!
StormbreathFTW: I see where you're coming from, but frankly, in the little playtesting I've done since his addition, Profaner of the Dead has been great for me. In grindy games, he completely swings the board state in my favor, and on top of that, his synergy with Hangarback Walker is phenomenal. Also, I have just added a Sunken Hollow in, and I've been hitting blue mana when I need it pretty consistently. I think Profaner will stay in the deck for the near future. Thanks for the advice, though!
PapaBear97: Wow! A lot of info there! I agree about Rattleclaw Mystic; through numerous rounds of playtesting and with the addition of a blue splash I've come to the conclusion that Mystic is just stronger than the alternatives in this deck. I also like Den Protector, but my 2 slot is already just about as full as I like, and my 3 slot is even fuller. Being able to hit either Drana, Liberator of Malakir or Managorger Hydra on curve is pretty crucial for me, and I've been able to do it well so far. I find Den Protector to be much more useful for me in the late game when I need to bounce a kill spell or return a beastie. I think 2 copies is a happy medium for now. I also do like Kolaghan's Command, and I find it so versatile. However, I would feel a little uncomfortable cutting anything else for another copy, mostly just as a meta call, because everything else really serves a specific purpose. I may SB another though, just in case! I had 2 Transgress the Mind in my original draft, but I just recently cut it in order to tinker with Temur Battle Rage. I like Transgress better, though, and it's back ;). I like 2 Ruinous Path game one, but I wouldn't hesitate to side in a 3rd if necessary. I hear where you're coming from with Profaner of the Dead, but frankly he's done serious work for me in the few games I've played with him in, and I like him for now. He is the MVP of long-running games and his synergy with Hangarback is unbeatable. In addition, I can't really justify a couple copies of Radiant Flames in SB in my meta, so he really fills that role with nice versatility. As I said before, I love hitting Drana on curve, and I've been able to do that with scary consistency, even running only 3. In addition, she's been able to break the line really effectively in the early game so far, and her ability to stop fliers has been a lifesaver in some cases. I also agree re: Hardened Scales. Just dropped it to 3. Thanks so much for all your feedback, it's been really helpful. Good luck with your deck man! I'll check it out :)
October 9, 2015 6:07 p.m.
ThinkBoldly says... #17
A note about Temur Battle Rage since you mentioned you were playtesting it a bit. When used on Drana, Liberator of Malakir or when Shaman of the Great Hunt is on the battlefield, it usually triggers counters twice, first with the trampling first strike (if it gets through) and then again on the second strike. This is precisely why am running it in my deck along with a couple Outland Colossus (the colossuses swing for 6 trampling and then gain 6 counters before the second strike, swinging for 18 total w/ the Temur Battle Rage. Likewise, a doublestriked Shaman of the Great Hunt swings for a total of 9 if he gets through, gains a second counter, and ends up a 6/4. If you got Drana, Liberator of Malakir through via Temur Battle Rage (against a chump thopter, for example), attacking creatures you control would each gain 2 counters from her alone.
October 9, 2015 9:58 p.m.
PapaBear97 says... #18
ThinkBoldly I totally didn't see the combo with drana and Temur Battle Rage. Value. That's really good and I think I'll try incorporating it into my deck.
mmpqu2 no problem man!! That's really interesting what you're doing with Profaner of the Dead I'd try it out a couple times to see because it does look good. I have Dragonlord Kolaghan in that place. But I will consider your own feedback for my deck as well so thank you!!
October 10, 2015 1:25 p.m.
ThinkBoldly: Wow. I didn't even think of that combo. I'm gonna have to play with that idea again. If I can hit that combo effectively, that would be a game changer. Decisions, decisions...
PapaBear97: Dragonlord Kolaghan was actually the first card I had in that slot! I found him a little underwhelming, how has been working for you? I also tried Dragonlord Atarka for a bit and he provided a similar late-game board swing to Profaner of the Dead for me, which proved helpful on several instances.
October 10, 2015 5:18 p.m.
You have no way to answer enchantments, besides Transgress the Mind and Duress. You got wrecked by my Sigil of the Empty Throne deck when I was testing it: Empty Thrones, Broken Bones
Ainok Survivalist is an answer that also fits the theme of your deck. Return to the Earth is another one that doubles as flying removal when needed. Of course, there's always Naturalize.
October 12, 2015 3:03 p.m.
Bananablob says... #21
OMG this looks sick. I hadn't noticed this obvious combo yet!
December 6, 2015 1:17 a.m.
I think you should be playing the full play set of Woodland Wanderers, which can come down turn 3 as a 7/7. If your opponent doesn't deal with it immediately, they take a lot of damage.
capriom85 says... #1
Why are you runningRattleclaw Mystic instead of Beastcaller Savant? The Savant just seems better for Jund seeing he can produce black mana. You're very creature heavy so it seems like a good choice.
October 4, 2015 10:25 p.m.