I recommend Kor Spiritdancer, Verduran Enchantress, Eidolon of Blossoms, and Mesa Enchantress to improve your card draw. Mana Bloom, while not ideal, is a minor source of ramp and/or color-fixing, and also returns to hand for additional use (especially with the creatures above). Lastly, Flickering Ward could be good here (especially against U/B).
May 24, 2017 1:08 p.m.
May 24, 2017 1:19 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #4
Thanks for the great suggestions so far! I didn't even consider that Wild Research was an illegal inclusion, but it was a recent addition.
I do need some cards with vigilance, since my deck has very few creatures to defend with, and the ones that are there are just mana dorks or card draw.
I would consider Whispersilk Cloak, but it would make it impossible to pump my general with buffs, and he already has hexproof. Likewise, the only real advantage I would gain from Swiftfoot Boots is haste, since my commander already has hexproofbuilt-in.
Interesting, I didn't know that Menace was basically a form of intimidate, so Madcap Skills definitely deserves to be added back into my deck.
Great suggestions, everyone!
May 24, 2017 4:06 p.m.
As i said, vigilance certainly is useful and its good to have access to it. However, you currently run 8 cards that provide it, and several of them aren't great to begin with, but become just plain bad once you draw more than one vigilance granting effect. I would personally cut Vigilance, Eternal Warrior, Abzan Runemark and Triclopean Sight. In the posts above there are plenty of suggestions far superior to those cards, and you can add Heliod's Pilgrim as another tutor for Daybreak Coronet whenever you need vigilance. Once you're at it, Murder Investigation and Inviolability can also go, both effects are way too narrow to actually matter.
May 24, 2017 5:38 p.m.
Grafted Exoskeleton & Triumph of the Hordes are two ways to get infect into a non-/non- deck.
May 24, 2017 6:10 p.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #7
I run a similar voltron deck with Sigarda, Host of Herons at the helm. I started with a similar mindset to yourself in that I thought "big payoff" ramp like Cultivate and Kodama's Reach were the only way to go but in truth you want faster cards like Carpet of Flowers, Birds of Paradise,Devoted Druid, as well as the fast mana artifacts (I.e. Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, etc). Essentially if your goal is to have Uril out by turn three, you're going to need immaculate mana and ramp that costs < 3 cmc.
I 100% agree with cklise. I use the enchantress engine to maintain card advantage and can confirm that it works wonders for the deck.
Next, cut the group hug cards. Voltron should never be looking to make allies at the table. More people means more chances to lose your general to a board wipe or Arcane Lighthouse.
Your curve is ~2.5 with your highest cmc card being 6. You do not need 41 lands!
Another common mistake I see with decks that are trying to go faster in an this style deck is the inclusion of Serra's Sanctum. A majority of your permanents are aura's. Sanctum does nothing to help get Uril out and is most of the time going to produce no mana before you have him on board. Sure it's great late game, but to get a faster start early mana production is crucial. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx will work better if you're just looking to do things like cast Three Dreams and play all the aura's you fetch during later turns.
Lastly, design the deck such that your enchantments cater to the way you win - getting to 11 power + double strike or Ancestral Mask with a plethora of enchantments. In Uril's case you are most likely going to need some evasion as well.
I could essentially sit here all day and spout all the things I've learned from playing and improving a voltron enchantress deck for the past 6 months, but this is your this is your deck to design not mine.
Nevertheless, if you have the time or will take a look at my Sigarda list. I'm not saying my deck is perfect, but hopefully it will reinforce what myself as well as others in the comments are suggesting.
May 24, 2017 9:35 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #8
Emzed, I'll follow your suggestion and cut the majority of the vigilance cards: the deck is about aggression anyway.
Thanks for the suggestions that concern dealing infect damage!
I'll check out your list, Jace. In regard to the amount of lands in the deck, I'm always concerned with getting land-screwed, so I try to ensure that it doesn't happen.
May 24, 2017 10:29 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #9
The only reason I'm not really focused as much on defensive measures is because Uril, the Mistwalker pumps up much faster than Sigarda, even with my deck being in dire need of improvement. I want to play a purely offensive build in my current playgroup before I consider adding defensive countermeasures. It's really built as a revenge deck, so while winning the game is an added bonus, the point of this deck is to avenge my previous loss to the dude who wiped out my lands by murdering him before he can blink.
May 24, 2017 10:38 p.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #10
34 lands has always worked fine for me, but understandably everyone has different standards of what they consider to be "consistent". My curve is 2.3 and my top end is 6, which is not that different from yours. I'm not saying you need to take it down as far as I did, but 36 - 37 with some of the aforementioned mana ramp should be a good testing point.
Also, I'm confused who is the second comment directed at? If it is in reference to my Sigarda deck, then I would say you're not reading into my list very well. The deck easily kills someone by 6 or 7.
Idk what you mean by a "revenge deck" with respect to voltron, but I'll leave that be.
You're right, I run a single lockdown pieces (Gaddock Teeg) because it prevents me from getting blown out since I am not allowed to run MLD in my league. If you do not run a few cards like this in an aura-centeric deck, then you're going to get blown out. G/W and by extension G/W/R do not have the ability to recover from losing voltron aside from Replenish or Retether, thus a minimal amount of lockdown is necessary imo. If you're trying to make the deck faster, but do not want to protect your investment then I don't really understand what you're going for here.
May 24, 2017 11:19 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #11
Uril, the Mistwalker gets +2/+2 for each aura attached to him, so that's what I mean by the fact that he pumps up quicker, not necessarily that your deck sucks. I can kill an opponent on turn 6 or 7, just not on a consistent basis.
I pretty well explained the revenge aspect, and it's laid out in my deck's description.
Like I was saying, as a general, Uril pumps up faster that Sigarda, due to his ability, and I'm speaking from experience, not simply hypothesizing. I'm not claiming that my deck is better than yours: I'm simply referencing Uril's ability to pump up at a faster rate, and I'm trying to take advantage of that.
I play in a casual group, not a league, and my deck already rivals the fastest mono-green ramp deck at the table. The goal of this deck is to kill one person: winning the game is really a secondary objective. I built this deck to focus someone down and ruin his or her day: whether it wins or not is inconsequential. I play against MLD all the time, and there's no better feeling that humbling the guy who wiped out my lands and forced everyone to scoop. I don't know how to explain it any better. I may include some defensive countermeasures at a later time, but I want to get a sense of how it plays without disruption before I throw all of that in. I already have notebooks filled with control cards, should I feel the need to protect my investment, and it's just a matter of swapping them out if I need.
Again, your suggestions have been really beneficial, and your deck has been a great template for my own, but I want to avoid creating a prison deck, if at all possible. I'm actually a huge fan of control: my playgroup actually nick-named me "control freak" because of how my other decks are fucntion, but right now I want to focus on improving my speed before I work on my defense. Mana generation and ramp is somewhat of weakness for me, but control isn't, so that's my focus right now.
May 25, 2017 12:07 a.m.
If MLD is such a big factor in your meta, Boros Charm could make a nice inclusion. The double strike mode can help kill the MLD player if you are fast enough, the 4 dmg mode isn't great but can occasionally snipe a planeswalker, and the indestructible mode is a nice safety net against both Wrath of God and Armageddon effects.
May 25, 2017 3:55 a.m.
Wild Research does not belong in an Uril deck. It has a blue mana symbol in the text.
May 25, 2017 6:47 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #14
That's some casual play group if you have people running around casting Armageddons lol.
On another note, it does seem like we're having difficulty understanding one another.
No one's suggested Silverblade Paladin and Battle Mastery yet, so I'll throw those out there.
May 25, 2017 7:31 a.m.
theindigoeffect says... #15
Typically, Armageddon is no match for cards like Counterspell, so if it's legal, we play it: our decks have become better as a result. If you're really trying to be competitive, I don't see why you'd exclude certain cards, instead finding ways around them. That being said, I'm just experimenting: this isn't the final version of my deck.
Wild Research was a recent addition: it's on its way out, and I haven't used it in an actual game.
Boros Charm is quite good.
May 25, 2017 8:23 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #16
I agree. You just don't usually see the words "casual" and "MLD" in a statement referencing each other unless the phrase "not allowed" is involved.
MLD just happens to be banned along with Primal Surge (for some reason) in league closest to me.
Regardless, happy deckbuilding and GL!
May 25, 2017 8:36 a.m.
Also, sorry to be Debby Downer, but cards like Murder Investigation and Griffin Guide do not trigger unless you let Uril go to the graveyard instead of returning to the command zone. For rules purposes, the word "die(s)" translates to "go(es) to the graveyard from play."
May 25, 2017 11:07 a.m.
sirtrinium says... #19
All these suggestions should be self-explanatory as to why they benefit a Uril edh. Depending on your play group you might want to look into the white counter spells. Also if your going to be running so much acceleration, you could drop your land count down to 30. My Uril runs on 28 lands, but it took me a long time to get my deck right. Play test a ton and adapt as needed to your playgroup. Good luck and let me know if there is a specific question about the reasoning behind anything I've suggested.
May 26, 2017 8:51 a.m.
theindigoeffect says... #20
Thanks, man: there's a few cards in there that I didn't even notice. I'll update my deck once I've made the bulk of my changes, but you're right: I really need to play-test it.
May 26, 2017 11:58 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #21
I wish I could edit posts I've made, but I'll just put a continuation of my suggestion here...
For some reason when you posted on my wall asking about advice I completely forgot you are playing red. If the "hate cards" are not your style then I think reactionary cards could help you against blue decks. Namely Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. I underestimated these cards when I first began playing EDH, but having these two spells would be a godsend for Sigarda.
I'll let you be the final judge on cuts or if you even want to play the aforementioned cards, but Deflecting Palm and Orochi Leafcaller seem pretty weak.
June 6, 2017 1:59 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #22
Deflecting Palm was included as a cost-effective solution to my lack of disruption spells: I've actually been killed by it before, but it is limited to one use.
I plan to acquire Gaddock Teeg and Grand Abolisher, but I'm concerned that they're easier to remove than Ghostly Prison or Dueling Grounds. How do you feel about creature-based prison effects vs enchantment-based prison effects? In my play-group, enchantment removal is less common, but I like the low costs of the prison cards you mentioned.
I had considered including Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast, too, though I find them somewhat narrow.
I only just realized that Orochi Leafcaller is inefficient. Thanks for pointing that out! It's definitely getting cut.
June 6, 2017 11:57 p.m.
theindigoeffect says... #23
I know you only have two colors to contend with in your deck, but do you think that a card like Mox Diamond would be a good fit for a three-color deck like mine?
June 7, 2017 12:03 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #24
Blue is undoubtedly the most hindering color to voltron, so I don't think making concessions to that would be unreasonable regardless of how narrow they are.
I eliminated most of the defensive cards in my build in favor of hinderance effects to slow down opponents (Null Rod, Torpor Orb, etc) and ramp. I prefer being the oppressive or fastest deck at the table.
I would rather have the creatures that have additional value. I largely found that defensive cards such as Dueling Grounds and Ghostly Prison underperformed. They are high CMC (3 CMC is an incredibly crowded slot in my build) and they did nothing to advance my board position. Especially if you are having trouble with control decks, you can't afford to use 3 mana on something that does not require an immediate answer from opponents or ceases to bring you closer to a kill.
I've been really happy with Teeg and Arbiter thus far. Arbiter is great for resolving spells and Teeg secures you a win late game. Plus they are a small investment with a large upside at 2 mana. If they stick, great! If they don't, your opponents had to use valuable resources, which is also great! If creature removal is really rampant in your meta you could try City of Solitude, but I found it very difficult to use this card effectively.
If you are going to run defensive cards such as Deflecting Palm, I would suggest something that has a larger upside as you don't really care about dealing non-general damage. Constant Mists, Moment's Peace, or Intervention Pact would most likely do better.
I would suggest running Dryad Arbor since you are not immune to sac effects like Sigarda.
I'm also surprised Madcap Skills has not found its way into your list. It seems like it would be very good. Burrowing seems like a good cut if you decide to include Madcap Skills.
If you have access to a Mox Diamond I would definitely run it. I don't run it just because I don't currently own one and it's pretty expensive lol.
June 7, 2017 12:34 a.m.
JaceTheSwagSculptor says... #25
* Silence is a better option than City of Solitude if creature removal is too rampant for Arbiter in your meta. *
Emzed says... #1
Ethereal Armor, Rancor and Wild Growth would be fantastic in your deck, you should definitely consider those.
You have lots of effects that provide vigilance to Uril. While that's good, multiples are redundant, and evasion abilities like trample, menace or flying can be much more relevant than vigilance. Cards like Armadillo Cloak, Unflinching Courage, Madcap Skills and Duelist's Heritage should probably find their way into your list.
Indestructibility is a cute card, but with your commander having hexproof, the one-shot indestructibility of Spider Umbra, Snake Umbra or Hyena Umbra will usually do the trick, and those cards are cheaper and have additional upsides.
Unfortunately, the commander rules don't allow you to play Wild Research in your deck, because its color identity includes blue.
If you want more cheap acceleration for a quick Uril, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Fyndhorn Elves, Llanowar Elves and Elvish Mystic as well as Ancient Tomb and Mana Crypt are some of your best options.
May 24, 2017 10:43 a.m.