Uril's Revenge

Commander / EDH* theindigoeffect

SCORE: 6 | 80 COMMENTS | 980 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


I agree with the reasoning that you use to support your suggestions.

I guess I'm not fond of Madcap Skills because it doesn't always work, but neither does Burrowing, unless I know I'm playing against someone who has mountains. I guess Madcap Skills wins out due to consistency, so I'll switch it out.

I plan to at least throw in Mana Vault, Gaddock Teeg, Grand Abolisher and the red counterspells you mentioned: I'll update my deck once I have them.

Thanks for your help.

June 7, 2017 5:10 p.m.

NP! Good luck with the deck! Feel free to bounce more concepts off of me if you ever feel the need.

On a side note, how has Land Tax worked out for you thus far? I thought it was too slow, but I could be wrong.

June 7, 2017 5:47 p.m.

I'll have some idea how Land Tax works out when I play with the current build tomorrow: I plan to switch it out with Mana Vault, since Land Tax is a dead card, unless you play it at the early stages of the game. That being said, it has definitely helped me in the past, but I think Mana Vault will be more consistently useful, even though it lacks some of the color-fixing qualities that I like.

June 7, 2017 6:18 p.m.
June 9, 2017 1:34 p.m.

Since you are running Devoted Druid then you could add Vizier of Remedies for infinite mana

June 9, 2017 1:43 p.m.

@theindigoeffect: I like Abolisher because it allows you to cast Uril on curve while Shusher requires you to wait a turn in order to gain the uncounterable effect.

@Chickens_are_awesome: What does an aggressive enchantress deck gain from infinite green mana? There are no pay-off spells.

June 9, 2017 2:23 p.m.

It makes for a cool combo, but I'd side with a somewhat more consistent Serra's Sanctum if I needed the mana. That being said, I'd probably have enough tutors to draw out Vizier of Remedies. If I somehow got focused down so much that I needed that much mana, I could see it being useful: it depends on how malicious my play group becomes. lol For the moment, I'm okay.

You still think Shusher would be a worthy inclusion overall?

June 11, 2017 5:07 a.m.

The inclusion of Susher depends on how prominent counterspells are in your meta. If there are a ton of people playing blue, then it's probably worth a slot.

If you have not already cut Chandra's Ignition for one of the cards in the maybeboard, then Susher is for sure a better option. General damage must be dealt as combat damage, thus the inclusion of Ignition is slightly confusing.

June 11, 2017 6:59 a.m.

Emzed says... #9

Chandra's Ignition wipes the board and deals with planeswalkers. If your opponents typically rely heavily on creatures, that seems like a very solid card. If you face mostly control and combo decks however, it's not all that useful.

June 11, 2017 9:39 a.m.

You should mostly be one-shotting players, thus boardwipes aren't really that useful.

June 11, 2017 9:49 a.m.

I should annotate my last statement by saying...

I do not play in theindigoeffect's meta. If he has experienced something that has caused him to include want bordwipes, then I completely respect his decision. In my experience playing a similar strategy, I have found 5 mana wipes to be lackluster.

June 11, 2017 9:56 a.m.

I do consider Chandra's Ignition board wipe, akin to Winds of Rath, but what makes it particularly useful is that it potentially enables me to kill or at least seriously cripple my opponents simultaneously: it's kinda like a Swiss Army Knife. Perhaps you're thinking that it's too inefficient, considering how quickly my deck ramps up. Perhaps if it was instant-speed it would be harder for me to part with.

With efficiency in mind, do you think single-target creature removal like Lightning Bolt would be preferable to Winds of Rath? If not, what would you suggest? I'm all about reducing my overall cmc.

June 11, 2017 7:58 p.m.

The problem with Ignition is that it requires Uril to be on board. In most cases you would want to wrath the board when you are behind (meaning Uril has low P & T or is in the command zone). I'm just not a fan of board wipes with requirements.

If your looking for another board wipe, I believe Divine Reckoning is worth considering.

With regard to cmc, always keep your curve in mind. You either want it to look like an ascending or descending staircase from 1 - 3 mana. Aggressive decks like voltron should be aiming for the later (descending).

Bolt, unlike other removal spells, is meta dependent because it only deals a set amount of damage. If you're having problems with early game creatures or someone in your playgroup has a general that can be hit by bolt, then it could be reasonable.

Grasp of Fate is probably the best removal spell that you are missing.

How I would make the changes...

Ghostly Prison -> Grasp of Fate

Dueling Grounds -> Duelist's Heritage

Chandra's Ignition/Winds of Rath -> Divine Reckoning/Leave Winds of Rath in/Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast

Chandra's Ignition/Winds of Rath -> Gaddock Teeg

Dawn Charm -> Grand Abolisher

Land Tax -> Mana Vault

Land -> Mox Diamond

Holy Mantle -> Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast/Cartouche of Zeal/Hammerhand

Deflecting Palm -> Regrowth

Dazzling Reflection -> Constant Mists

Of course everything is up to your discretion. Feel free to debate, inquire about, or ignore anything you don't agree with.

June 11, 2017 9:45 p.m.

Cool, I think Grasp of Fate works nicely, and I have similar thought process, regarding your other suggestions.

I'll probably acquire Mox Diamond at a later time: for now, Taiga, Savannah and Horizon Canopy seem like more pertinent additions. I'll update my deck later in the week, once I have the pieces that I need.

Thanks again.

June 11, 2017 10:02 p.m.

Completely agree on the Mox Diamond logic. The dual lands are wayyy more important. Hopefully Mox Diamond just gets reprinted in Iconic Masters to make it easier for the both of us.

Np!

June 11, 2017 10:38 p.m.

I'll probably update my decklist this weekend. In the meantime, what's your opinion of Braid of Fire, Constant Mists and Reap, in addition to their potential inclusion in this deck?

June 15, 2017 6:53 p.m.

Wtf...? Is Reap even a real card? How is that not just straight better than Regrowth? I'm so confused why more decks don't run this. I keep reading the card thinking there has to be a drawback, but there is nothing...you just choose the guy playing a non-black deck O__o

I might have to replace my judge promo Regrowth (insert crying face).

I already suggested Constant Mists in two previous posts. The only reason you would not want Constant Mists is if people are combo killing you with Aetherflux Reservoir or some other random jank (if this is the case you'll want Intervention Pact).

Fog effects are also meta-dependent. I do not run any because commander kills and aggro decks are not that prevalent in my meta. I found that lockdown effects do enough to slow down people until I one-shot them or get a lifelink enchant.

Braid of Fire is not a card that I have a clear cut answer for. It has pro's and con's...it's an enchantment, it comes down early, it's not vulnerable, yet it only produces the color of mana you need least. This is definitely a card you'll need to proxy and test for yourself. I can definitively say it's worse than Devoted Druid though.

June 15, 2017 7:20 p.m.

Edit: Wait hold up...I misread Reap lol. It's not that good. Regrowth is better.

June 15, 2017 7:29 p.m.

Emzed says... #19

Braid of Fire makes mana that you need to use on your upkeep, you can't store it until your mainphase. I don't really see how this deck would use that, since it barely has any red spells you would want to cast in your upkeep, and no abilities to sink the mana into.
Reap is very metagame dependent, since it only becomes better than Regrowth if you can expect an opponent to have two or more black permanents. If with multiple black decks at the table, it's not a given that anyone actually has multiple black permanents, and that you actually have more than one card that you want to return from your graveyard at that point. But there is always the risk that the card does nothing. I think i prefer the unexciting but reliable version in Regrowth.

June 15, 2017 7:39 p.m.

I misread 2 of the 3 cards lol. Good catch on the Braids of Fire, Emzed!

June 15, 2017 7:58 p.m.

I had drawn the same conclusion about Reap, and I had considered replacing Avacyn's Pilgrim with Braid of Fire due to the amount of blue disruption in my meta: in other words, if I have to re-cast my general, it's easier to do, assuming I played Braid of Fire early enough in the game. That being said, I'm assuming that I'd only be able to cast Uril, the Miststalker during my main phase, so it would be kinda useless. What exactly would Braid of Fire be intended for?

The blue disruption is also another reason I originally wanted to include Serra's Sanctum, but even with all my enchantments, I suppose it could potentially be a dead card. It seemed like an efficient way to re-cast my general, should I get bombarded with counterspells and wrath effects.

I like most of the mana-fixing enchantments in your voltron deck, but I didn't include the one that required that I have a forest in play or the one that had a 2 cmc cost.

Constant Mists seems like good inclusion for me, since we have a mixture of competitive and casual players.

Thank you both for the clarification on how those cards work: Braid of Fire was especially odd, and I'm glad I consulted you guys before plunking down the cash for it.

June 15, 2017 8:19 p.m.

I guess the other issue in my meta, along with the blue disruption, is that compared to the other players in my play group, my deck ramps up so quickly that it paints a target on my back, so contingencies like Serra's Sanctum could seemingly help me quickly re-establish my board state.

In the more competitive environment that you play in, your deck might be equally as fast as the decks of other players in your group.

June 15, 2017 8:25 p.m.

@theindigoeffect: I assume your directing this at me.

I'd guess Braids of Fire is for storm, but I don't really see it in any cEDH decks probably because it's too slow.

Ya...I misread a lot of cards. Both Reap and Braids of Fire are no go in your deck, as Emzed correctly pointed out.

It depends on my opener, but Sigarda is usually faster than most decks in my meta. I have not really had any issues with wrath effects aside from Cyclonic Rift and Toxic Deluge. I can usually kill at least one player before someone finds an answer. I get that our meta's are different, but I'm pretty confused about the amount of variance you're experiencing. Are you just keeping hands with a bunch of ramp and no action or running out Uril recklessly? The only other major difference that I can think of is that you're only going to run 2 hate effects - Teeg & Abolisher - compared to my 7 (Null Rod, Stony Silence, Hushwing Gryff, Torpor Orb, Gaddock Teeg, Grand Abolisher, and Nevermore). Not only do these slow my opponents down, but also require an answer which now can't be used on Sigarda or her respective auras. You may to consider rebalancing your hate and ramp.

You may also want to include Harmonize, even at 4 cmc maintaining card advantage is vital. This is why I'm even testing Dissenter's Deliverance too.

I've been happy with Fertile Ground. It's always been reasonable to cast and more difficult to remove than a creature, but I agree Utopia Sprawl shouldn't be in your deck.

The issue with Serra's Sanctum is that a majority of your enchants are aura's, so the card is dead unless you have an established Uril. I tested Sanctum twice and cut it both times. Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx has worked out much better. It shouldn't be that different for you since your deck is pretty much W/G with a red splash.

Keep in mind that it took me 6 months to get to a point at which Sigarda was consistently performing in my meta. It's all about testing cards and finding what works best. My deck should be a good template, but there will always be meta dependent choices to make. For example, Choke sounds like it would work better than Nevermore for your particular meta since blue is such an issue.

June 15, 2017 9:37 p.m.

There aren't many artifact players in my meta, so the prison cards you mentioned wouldn't be relevant that often, and Torpor Orb wouldn't be beneficial in most situations for me. To make up for that, I tried to make sure that I ran the same percentage of disruption effects as you, and removal and stax effects were lumped into my disruption category, though I'm a little light on stax effects, since many of them have a higher cmc cost than I would prefer. That being said, I had only considered enchantment-based stax effects at the time, in an effort to create a more synergistic deck.

There are a lot of creature-based strategies in my play group, so something like Blind Obedience would probably have more value, while additionally slowing down artifacts: that's probably the kind of stax effect that I would need: cheap and versatile. I'm open to suggestions, as I hadn't previously considered that I wasn't running enough stax cards.

I like Nevermore and Choke, but I opted for cards with more versatility, given that 14% of the deck is devoted to disruption.

I do have Fertile Ground, so I might put it in my deck, depending on how Avacyn's Pilgrim performs. It's definitely a more versatile card, but the latter seems more efficient, even though I don't like it all that much.

I will give some consideration to Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, though I feel that it has a similar issue to Serra's Sanctum, due its devotion requirements and its colorless activation cost, but it is more versatile.

By the way, thanks for your patience: I know I'm asking a lot of questions, so I appreciate your time, and I really enjoy having these kinds of discussions.

June 15, 2017 11:42 p.m.

Also, Dissenter's Deliverance seems like a great choice, since artifact destruction spells can sometimes be dead cards, but it's hard for me to get behind Harmonize.

June 15, 2017 11:46 p.m.

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