Skillville says... #2
So, great build.
However, answer me this.
What is so different about this deck list than any other cEDH mono-blue deck list that has ever been created? It's pretty much copy / paste and insert Urza as as commander. Where is the accomplishment? Where are you deriving the #1 stat from? Where are you getting your data from and what do you have to substantiate this claim?
June 10, 2019 11:01 p.m.
Sarkhan420X says... #3
Skillville: what "#1 stat" or "claim" are you referring to?
June 10, 2019 11:26 p.m.
Skillville says... #4
Urza Feeling Lucky - cEDH Primer #1 Mono Blue
"#1 Mono Blue"
June 11, 2019 2:12 a.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #6
It's the #1 Mono Blue general out... No where does this build claim to be the #1 deck... Even though that's very debatable. Skillville
June 11, 2019 5:28 a.m.
I'm not high on Aetherflux Reservoir for Urza in cEDH. The games where I've tried it felt like it was a card that wasn't needed. If I'm already at the point where I can untap and tap with Paradox Engine at will and generating infinite mana and draw I should be able to just loop something to win that is a card I would already otherwise be running for interaction purposes. If I can just Pongify my general and replay him to create an infinite army of Apes and Constructs then the Aetherflux Reservoir is a dead card at any point in the game. It was just about the very first thing I cut and I've been very pleased with that decision.
June 11, 2019 11:25 a.m.
Skillville: At this point isn't every cEDH deck with a copy and paste with a stock list of permissions, cantrips, and mana rocks with the only difference being the last few slots?
June 11, 2019 11:28 a.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #9
jaymc1130 - Yeah I was feeling the same way. Your comment confirms that Aetherflux Reservoir is getting cut. Enough cards on the sideboard to swap in + add Pongify for the extra removal.
June 11, 2019 11:33 a.m.
ToffMcSoft - You damn dirty Ape making machine you!
I've been surprised by how often and Urza deck actually seems to win via combat damage. His construct is not legendary so you can sometimes wind up with multiple 20/20 beaters hanging around masquerading as mana dorks. Adding an army of Apes to the army of Frogs, Constructs, and Swans just takes it over the top in terms of win con resiliency while dropping the curve and improving the level of interaction available.
I've been working on my list here: Looper
June 11, 2019 11:43 a.m.
bkelly8401 says... #11
Can you explain the new Jace vs Lab Man. Everybody seems to be running it, but I honestly don’t understand how a planeswalker that costs 1 more mana and is prone to being attacked is better. Am I missing something?
June 12, 2019 12:05 a.m.
@ bkelly8401 As to why run Jace over Lab Man the reasoning is this: Lab Man is essentially a dead card whenever you draw it and aren't actually in the process of going off then and there. Jace at least provides some relevant utility outside of being a win condition. He can be played after an opponent top deck tutors to disrupt the tutor target. He can draw a card. And he can potentially bait opposing players into attacking him rather than your life total which can some times buy some breathing room. The downside to this utility is that he's harder to cast than a Lab Man. Personally, I don't run either card in anything because even with the extra utility on Jace it's not enough for me to warrant playing him for that much mana for that little expected value.
June 12, 2019 12:22 a.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #13
bkelly8401 there's also a lot less Planeswalker removal. Very rarely will you be casing Jace/Lab man unless your winning. If you have to cast Jace to dig in and draw a card, times are real rough lol. Most likely that's a situation where Urza has been recasted 3 times, current sits in the command zone and you're stuck looking for a hail Mary.
June 12, 2019 4:40 a.m.
shadowmage says... #14
I don’t think you should cut aetherflux reservoir it’s one of the best cards in the game
It’s gets you back in the game It wins you the game It taps for one blue mana
Honestly people saying to cut that don’t know what they’re talking about
June 12, 2019 8:51 a.m.
@ shadowmage When it comes to Aetherflux Reservoir consider this: at any point in the game where you will be going off and Reservoir would win you the game a dozen other less mana intensive options would also win. The card serves no utility purpose beyond winning the game as life gain in cEDH typically isn't relevant. And any opening hand in which you have it instead of something like Swan Song or Rapid Hybridization is going to be opening hand you are likely to have to mulligan. Using it in any cEDH deck at this point is typically a mistake as you sacrifice deck efficiency, consistency, and interactivity. A mana intensive dead card in 99% of situations is not a card you want to run against the most competitive and well tuned decks in the format.
June 12, 2019 9:12 a.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #16
@ shadowmage & jaymc1130 - More then likely aetherflux reservoir is going to make it back into the list. Cursed totem shuts off Urza too easily and there's not enough removal for that. Need the backup win con.
June 12, 2019 11:38 a.m.
@ ToffMcSoft If your reasoning for returning Aetherflux Reservoir to the list is that Cursed Totem is a problem when you are far more likely to find an opponent with Stony Silence , Null Rod , or Karn, the Great Creator then you've only increased your difficulties on average over an arbitrary sample size set of games. You'd be better off, using that reasoning, adding in a card like Into the Roil to help find a way around all of those cards than to opt into either of 2 choices where neither one deals with any of those cards.
June 12, 2019 11:54 a.m.
Oooffft Nice version!
How has Manifold Insights and Recurring Insight been working out for you? and I feel like Trickbind might be a bit too narrow don't you think could add more bounce for the combo turn cursed totem removal?
And I see you've been plagued by our "pro's" amongst the casuals jaymc1130 and Skillville, a VERY sad bunch of casuals xD Anyhow good list!
June 20, 2019 12:59 a.m.
Daedalus19876 says... #19
How is this the #1 cEDH primer, it's not even the #1 Urza deck?
July 8, 2019 2:48 p.m.
Kvothe_the_kingkilla says... #20
Thoughts on this list now that PE is banned?
July 8, 2019 3:28 p.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #21
Kvothe_the_kingkilla - Dropped PE for Basalt Monolith . Another card to combo w/ Power Artifact and works nicely w/ Voltaic Key . To be honest, PE was always a backup line and was always used in a situation where you were "going for luck" w/ Urza's ability to gain value over time.
July 9, 2019 11:51 a.m.
@ ToffMcSoft The PE ban certainly hurts the more control/staxy variants of Urza and significantly decreases the value of Crystal Shard in particular. The storm variants are much less affected as they already make better use of cards like Sai, Master Thopterist while employing lines enabled with Hurkyl's Recall and similar effects. I don't think this kills the Urza decks, but it might push them into a different play style to remain effective in the meta.
July 9, 2019 8:03 p.m.
ToffMcSoft says... #23
jaymc1130 couldn't agree more. A lot of fake news out there being spread that Urza is dead deck w/ the PE ban. I've been strongly considering Hurkyl's Recall from the start, might end up swapping Trick Bind for it.
July 10, 2019 12:28 p.m.
@ ToffMcSoft Oh man, if you haven't given some storm options a go yet get in a few games with a storm package. I think I've got a decent idea of how to kind of hybridize the variants for some role flexibility in match and the results have been pretty nice in the half dozen games I've managed to get in with this iteration. I really think Mystic Forge (can't tutor for Future Sight, le sigh) is a go to option now with PE on the ban bench, same number of combo pieces required, same (or at least similar depending on the cost reducer) mana investment, and requires pieces the deck is already running outside of Mystic Forge. It's a pretty straight forward 1 for 1 swap in. There's certainly ways to tune around that as an engine by adding in additional cost reducing pieces, but all that's needed to get the ball rolling is 1. It's pretty trivial to figure out the infinite mana part after the whole deck is in hand and in a list that runs a Lab Man style win con even more trivial to just win the match. Biggest down side is it doesn't play nice with Grafdigger's Cage .
July 11, 2019 11:33 a.m. Edited.
ad12341987 says... #25
Very nice looking deck:
I will make a few legitimate suggestions: This is just from my personal experience in mono blue cedh.
Drop the future sight- its a 3 card combo and hard to pull off because blue tutors for enchantments are limited. also DROP Etherium Sculptor- I know it seems weird when you are artifact heavy-but you should be generating enough mana to not require this. instead, consider BARAL, CHIEF OF COMPLIANCE- you will see heavy value from him during counterspell wars.
Drop Gitaxian probe, impulse, brainstorm, ponder, preordain, fact or fiction- you arent storm and the cantrips are not as strong as wheel effects. INSTEAD - Consider Adding, FLUX, TOLARIAN WINDS, INDUCED AMNESIA, DAYS UNDOING, WHIRLPOOL RIDER, ECHO OF EONS. these effects will help ramp your mana base early game and keep your hand full of counter spells or locate your combo and control pieces quickly. they work great alongside your tutors and absolutely decimate your opponents with NARSET, PARTER OF VEILS.
Drop Voltaic key- this seems out of place- i know it has a nice effect but seems win more.
Drop recurring insight- its limited and slow- wheel effects are stronger when youre dumping ramp rocks, even if your opponents benefit- thats why blue has counter spells.
Drop blue suns zenith- its a strong kill spell and useful but urza wont let you win with it if he exiles it- X must be 0. you already win with decking yourself from urzas ability. if you need a draw spell to win with the JACE, Wielder of Mysteries, consider the wheels already in your deck or the list above. The card seems good as a backup win, but it is actually just a win more.
Drop Grafdiggers Cage- this is a meta based option but well placed counterspells should be able to handle your needs, even in cEDH
Drop Disallow- 2 card counters are easier to pull off, if youre worried about triggers consider the new TALES END, cards like NARSETS REVERSAL are also fun.
Drop Flusterstorm, Swansong, Negate, Into the Roil, trickbind,
consider dropping Drop trail of evidence- you have enough mana lol. and also Drop Sai- optional- he is very strong and can ramp you, but you might, as stated, already have enough mana, I guess blue can never have enough though
add muddle the mixture- it tutors for many win condition pieces- power artifact, grim monolith, aphetto alchemist, illusionist bracer, dramatic reversal, isochron scepter. also the tutor ability (transmute) cant be countered.
add illusionist bracers- it stacks well with urzas mana ability, can late game help recover with his secondary, and will help enable your win condition combo potential with aphetto alchemist. add aphetto alchemist- it doubles as a nice utility card and can go infinite with illusionist bracers.
add scroll rack- for all that is beautiful in this world please. its blue gold.
add pili-pala- its an artifact that can tap with urza and has infinite combo potential add grand-architect- it combos with pili-pala
add long term plans- you can dig the card up fairly quick in mono blue and its instant speed.
add personal tutor- it can be slow but is immensely powerful.
Consider this HARD counterspell list, they can target any card- they are very good with a sapphire medallion or baral in play and will give you the control aspect you need to progress to your combo plays if timed properly and only used to answer threats. A general rule with mono blue is to always hold up mana and answers until you can back up your win, early game turn 1,2,3 be careful for glass cannon combos and just focus on progressing your board state and refilling your hand/wheeling your opponents hands away.
remand- replaces itself at the cost of a back to hand counterspell- it buys more time then you think and can win end game with JACE. arcane denial- replaces itself, can be used even on your own spells to net draw or even to win end game with JACE. unsubstantiate- it works as a great general deterrent and gets around "cant be countered" ertais meddling- gets around cant be countered and works as a mini delay. memory lapse- this is a dick move, ruins their next draw and counters their spell.
consider this list for better mana ramp potential- Paradoxical outcome- absolutely insane with this deck Retract- works like hurkyls recall, but for you-artifact based high tide anyone? rebuild- not as good as the above. energy tap- 4 colorless from urza for 1 blue mana- pretty good. hidden strings- speaks for itself.
consider a bit of recursion- snapcaster mage mission briefing flood of recollection
strong blue cards: dream halls: probably not advised for an urza control deck bent on ruining the ability for your opponents to play spells, but backed up with wheels and counterspells can win you the game immediately.
shadowmage says... #1
Great build!!
June 10, 2019 2:26 p.m.