also any reason not to run nykthos? i mean i know devotion is limited but its strong.

and consider Tidespout Tyrant, forgot to include in my last post

ad12341987 Why not tell him to just throw his deck in a fire after all that?

this ad12341987 guy has no idea what hes talking about lol

lol shadowmage i created most of what is considered the original sidisi cedh ad nauseam deck which during partial paris years was one of the very top glass cannon combo decks thats ever graced the cedh scene. I have as well made the current marwyn glass cannon deck. ive played the game since right after its release and have been in the "commander" scene for many many years, playing at one of the top stores in the nation which for many years holds one of highest fnm turnouts and is one of the top 3 mtg retailers in the world. I am in nearly direct contact with some of the leading team designers, rnd, and commander committee members.. I have tinkered with countless decks and commander builds utilizing tactics from value decks to high synergy all the way to down right casual tribal aggro. I am simply making suggestions and throwing ideas around to help get people thinking about different options and possibilities.

but yeah youre right, i am still learning, after all, Urza is a new release to the cedh scene and learning which cards are available to fit a best in slot combo build while being able to control and handle threats from different metas is a difficult process.

@ ad12341987 Mate, I understand those folks might have been a bit rude to you and it might have made you upset, but I just want to be very real, very honest with you for a moment. Please understand I in no way intend to offend you.

It's pretty clear from your original statement that you don't have much experience with high level competitive play. Certainly in the EDH format and it's likely the case in every format simply based on the actual words, reasons, and choices you presented in said original statement. Again, I don't say this to belittle you, I'm just stating facts.

If you'd like to have a more in depth discussion about various aspects of competitive level play I'd be more than happy to oblige outside of ToffMcSoft's deck list as this would not be an appropriate place to have that kind of discussion nor is this the appropriate place for you to act outlandishly and make a scene. I understand some of those comments made toward you probably also fit that bill, and those folks should know better than to be deliberately rude and disrespectful. No matter what it's pretty impolite to have a bickering battle in another person's space. No one likes a Kiyomei.

ad12341987 Appreciate the suggestions & feedback. I've considered Snapcaster Mage & Baral, Chief of Compliance many times. Both these cards may end up finding their way into the list eventually.

Regarding your other suggestions, the list here has been derived from Urza Paradox Scepter which is consistantly tested by sickrobot Lerker ShaperSavant & LabManiac_Sigi. There have been extended discussions on card choices, multiple play test and meta specific swaps.

If you're interested in exploring these further with us, my suggestion would be to join the Urza discord we have going.

Trickbind and voltaic key both has a upgraded cards now in M20.

I might agree with Manifold Key being better than Voltaic Key but I think Trickbind having split second still makes it favorable over Tale's End . Although, I guess that the ability to hit legendary spells IS very good.

Ripklawe Trickbind is strickly a meta play on my end, it could 100% be subbed out. Manifold Key will make it's way in, I'll update the list once I pick up the card.

What Intuition piles do you usually search for when playing this deck?

Paradoxical outcome is a better option than recurring insight in my opinion. It can fraw so many cards, and is an instant opposed to a sorcery.

Intuition piles are always situational, depending on if you need wheels, counter spells, or your win con.

I do think Trickbind could be better than disallow. Also, relic barrier is worth a shot.

What's the purpose of Manifold Key seems like a cheaper Voltaic Key but is that all it does?

Is there a decent budget replacement for twister?

TheAlteredMind Manifold Key give you the utility to let your construct get unblocked. Very rare and extremely situational but why not have the option if it's available?

Ilnez Echo of Eons would be the budget version for twister. Most people will just proxy Timetwiser and most cEDH leagues allows for a certain degree of proxies. If you're looking to play @ a GP, Urza most likely isn't your best bet since the PE ban.

You really think that since the PE ban Urza isnt competitive at the GP level?

@ TheAlteredMind Yes, absolutely. T&T however is far too superior to everything else though. Flash needs to be banned, the cEDH meta has been severely screwed since PE ban and everyone flocking to Flash Hulk decks.

I will still rank Urza over as the #1 mono blue cEDH general Teferi due to the Chain Veil being shut down way to easy. The PE ban hurt a lot of competitive decks and reduced the power level across for board in cEDH. It's also very important to keep in mind that PE was plan B or even plan C in many Urza decks.

@ ToffMcSoft Actually, Flash Hulk style decks are pretty bad in a truly competitive meta where people have actually realized what the most dominant strategy in the entire format is. The UBx style "Inception" builds absolutely obliterate the fast glass cannon combo decks like Food Chain, Flash Hulk and the like. In fact, this has been true for almost a year now and the "Inception" strategy has only been improved with the release of new sets in that time frame while the other decks in the meta largely gained very little.

If you're interested the most powerful version of the concept is here: Inception! (aka Thrymception) [cEDH Primer]. This strategy is legitimately the only one I would even remotely consider taking to a sanctioned event and only the exact commander and color set up being used would be a consideration (T&T based "Inception" is statistically the best performer though).

I certainly wouldn't mind Flash being bannned, but those decks are hopelessly outclassed any ways at this point as they are simply way too card slot inefficient to be truly competitive.

I think storage matrix might be worth a try in this deck.

I think variety circle is worth a shot in any mono blue deck in a meta filled with mana dorks.

Rings might be better than future sight since you have basalt monolith, and it's easily tutored by fabricate and the likes, while FS is more of an, "oops I found my combo piece." Rings is also worth the trigger with fetch lands, because two is always better than one.

Do we have updates for this deck? Any potential additions with the upcoming set?

Dafufu - I've updated the list a bit. Rings has been added back into the deck.

Great build!+1

Thanks for helping on my reddit post.

I just might use your Urza list as an inspiration to make my own.

Have a good day!

OP_Sigma appreciate the comment - I've updated the list since your post. Some major changes today.

Dafufu - Major Updates made today.

Drops: Intuition, Trinket Mage, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, Fact or Fiction & Timetwister

Adds: Rapid Hybridization, Jeweled Amulet, Walking Ballista, Aether Spellbomb, & Thassa's Oracle

Justification: - Rapid Hybridization: With more and more Fish Hulk decks showing up Rapid Hybridization earns a spot for instant speed removal on Thassa's Oracle along with the ability to have that pocket spot removal available.

Jeweled Amulet: Many Urza list have run this since day 1, dropped Trinket Mage for it. Trinket Mage always felt too clunky and was really only in the deck to get Top which was only 1 of 3 piece combo. Grabbing Top with Trinket mage always felt like a step backwards.

Thassa's Oracle, dropped Jace as Thassa's Oracle is just better and offers utility if you do draw the card. Jace was always a dead draw. Now you you do draw Thassa's Oracle you can potentially use it if you're in a dire situation.

Walking Ballista, dropped Fact or Fiction. Out of 50+ Urza matches I've played Fact or Fiction maybe twice. The CMC is too much and very rarely are you in a position unless it's mid-late game to expend the mana on this spell. Every time I have an opening hand with Fact or Fiction I sigh. Walking Ballista has been added an a backup win con but most importantly something another form of spot removal.

Aether Spellbomb, dropped Timetwister as this list doesn't run the Codex Shredder loop. Timetwister had it's fun, half the time you're giving advantage to your opponents. Aether Spellbomb offers potential spot removal, bouncing Urza & bouncing Thassa's Oracle (if played early on). Aether Spellbomb offers utility as well.

@ dingusdingo - Updated List, would love your insights on how else to tune this. In my opinion Recurring Insight is next on the chopping block.

ToffMcSoft I'm really liking this list and thinking of building it as I am wanting to play something other than Fish Hulk. I also just love that it's friggin URZA. Nostalgia mega bonus. Anyway, I see in your last update that you added Rapid Hybridization, another card I love, but your reasoning is that it can kill Thassa's Oracle. Isn't it too late by the time it hits the board, since its triggered ability will go on the stack? Are you assuming you'll kill it and Stifle/Trickbind the trigger? If anything I like Hybridization and Pongify to kill mana dorks to try and slow down the table. I may even try to fit Reality Shift in for this too.

Anyway, thanks for an awesome list, gonna start working on putting it together!