been using Choking Fumes as a side board against things like RDW, and its been pretty handy.

Not sure what to think about these changes.

wow, do you get an update when i make changes?? How does that work?

Also please let me know why you don't agree!

Reasoning for my changes is below

I made changes as follows:

+4 Sphere of the Suns (getting to the right colors and getting out venser by turn 4 is simply great, also bounceable)

+3 Tumble Magnet (I've been playing with these a lot in my forgemaster deck, and they work miracles, even without blinking them)

+3 Preordain (some deck manipulation is great)

+1 Mana Leak (staple-ish)

-2 Leonin Relic-Warder

-2 Condemn

-2 Deprive

-2 Stoic Rebuttal

-1 Journey to Nowhere

-1 Sea Gate Oracle

-1 Glimmerpoint Stag

Now i do have to say that these changes are purely based on assumptions on how the deck would play. I still haven't put it together yet, but I'm getting closer now :) only missing 1 of 4 vensers.

Nope didn't get an update, just happened to notice it. I think that once you make and play this deck you'll see that spheres, while a nice card, are not needed. I've never run into mana or color issues, and I have 2 less dual-color lands than you and sometimes run 2 less lands altogether.

I do love tumble magnets though, and may swap them in place of the relic-warders. Those are great too, but at my FNM the artifact frenzy is starting to die down.

I'm thinking of working in a Myr Battlesphere , since the turn after he's played you're hitting for 20 if venser is in play.

yeah i play a modified version of this deck a lot and i really do not think that sphere of sun's is necessary. with all the dual lands i never have the issue of getting venser out. i have my Leonin Relic-Warder 's sideboarded and they do come in handy. also dont love how you have cut out some counters and creatures. although i recognize how helpful Tumble Magnet can be, i have tried it out and like the deck a lot more without it. i do, however, run Into the Roil in mb. "oh no... a heavy hitter i didnt have mana to counter because i just played venser and fully tapped my lands." into the roil that badboy and counter that sucker next time it drops. just my 2 cents however. i think the changes you made change the kind of flow of the deck, but im sure it still works just fine.

Alright, after some playtesting on here it seems the spheres aren't too necessary and it's more important that i get my land drops. I have btw fallen in love with my magnets, they are just awesome in every deck except for aggro, in which they would still do a decent job.

changes: -2 Sphere of the Suns +1 Seachrome Coast +1 Tumble Magnet .

@Trakanon... That sphere thing is pretty cool, i had it in here originally but took it out for Spine of Ish Sah . I'm not sure what would work better. Heavy hitters are important but this deck thrives on slowing the opponent down until venser goes ultimate/frost titan is online and take over from there. Bouncing a permanent killer seems pretty nice to me! Maybe I'll throw in a singleton Treasure Mage for it.

actually: -2 more Sphere of the Suns +1 Wall of Omens +1 Spell Pierce .

I play a GWU version of Venser deck and I personally like Condemn way more than Day in this deck. Your deck has more creatures than most decks and has enough control to slow or stop horde decks. Condemn takes care of the Titans that you will most likely have to deal with.

the problem with condemn is that a titan has to attack in order for it to work. this means that its triggered ability will go off at least twice. If i can just DoJ his titan and whichever other creatures he has on the board its less of a threatening situation.

@all:

mixed up some of the lower spells so that my curve looks good again and i added mini jace. Mainly to have something to do against big jace when he hits the field, but aside from that it's great card advantage and a "draw a card, prevent the next 2 damage for 3 mana" at worst.

i ended up adding a Sun Titan , Myr Battlesphere and a singleton Treasure Mage as well, so i can fetch the sphere or the spine when i need to. If chances are the opponent cannot remove my sphere from the field and i have venser out when i cast it it's a winning combo (bounce sphere when it comes into play, make 4 more tokens, next turn make it unblockable, attack and tap 8 tokens for 20 damage)

all in all i ended up going for a more control-oriented style, as this deck will probably win slowly by dominating the board instead of by actively attacking into the opponent.

comments plz!

To quote a post on Venser from Gatherer: ''you could grate cheese with those sideburns.''

This may have been posted already, but have you considered Glimmerpoint Stag ? For creatures its a moot point in contrast to the more expensive Frost Titan , but since it allows you to exile (rather than tap) any of an opponent's permanents, you could use it to your advantage against enchantments, creatures, nonbasic lands, or anything that could be used against you in your attack phase. Furthermore, you can do this EVERY TURN by exiling the stag with venser, then returning it so its ability activates, which (since its already during your own end step) doesn't allow their permanent to return until the end of THEIR turn, which screws over their attack phase, and most of their turn overall.

Amirite? Maybe consider 1? or 2?

Hey, thanks :)

Yes I've had those in here for a while, and eventually took them out as i thought they would not do enough, but i hadn't considered the end step stuff yet, good call. Problem is, i have no clue what to take out for it. The titans will stay in, so i'll need to drop something else. There's also the matter of it being in the same cmc slot as Day of Judgment , which i'll usually cast on t4 i think.

edit

I have taken out a Stoic Rebuttal for it for now. Think that's a good call?

Also, what is your opinion on the question of whether to add Squadron Hawk in Wall of Omens ' place? i'm not sure what to think of that.

I like the idea for this deck. Nice job.

Have you given any thought to putting in Admonition Angel ? It seems like his ability would go great with Venser's +2 ability. Basically, exile a land with Venser and when you return it it'll trigger Admonition Angel's landfall ability. In other words, you'd pretty much be able to exile things at your leisure.

Anyway, it was just a thought.

Again, great job on the deck.

Yeah that stags were clutch in earlier versions of this deck I thought. Popping them out with Venser, then bringing them during end step kept their card exiled until their end step, which was very nice.

I'm sure how you have it set up now works great, but I feel like it was absolutely perfect around mid January.

@tarv:

I had not given that a thought yet, the Admonition Angel 's WWW cost would probably be an issue. It did get me thinking though and i think another angel would be more in place: enter Sunblast Angel !! it's got great synergy with venser as well as Tumble Magnet , 2 cards i adore.

So @All:

What about Sunblast Angel ? i'm considering having it replace either a day of judgment, the myr battlesphere or the glimmerpoint stag, what do you people think?

@ Trakanon:

Haha, yes i know you're more into the earlier versions and perhaps you're right in that it was better before, but i must say that the deck appeals to me more than before. One of the better adjustments have been baby jace and tumble magnet IMO. I'd also like your opinion on the hawks versus walls question and on whether or not to add Sunblast Angel . Let me know please, as i do think you have very solid ideas. Also, how many more stags would you work in here and what would you replace them with? I await your response!

Hmm, tough call on the hawks. By the looks of things, youre aiming to play defensively until you can get set up, but you only really have 8 counter/removal spells in the deck, other than Day of Judgment . But which is better, thinning or a free 0/4 defender? As much as I love Wall of Omens , I'm going to have to imply the superiority of Squadron Hawk here. Not only does it thin your deck quicker, allowing you to get to the good stuff, but it can block anything as a flying chump. Wall of Omens is nice because it replaces itself, but it is likely to die at the same time as the hawks, especially if you're playing against infect; thus, you might as well tend to focus on extra defenses and nurture your control.

I dont want to sound like a broken record, and I dont know how many others have posted this already, but have you considered Shape Anew ? You would probably have to add it at the expense of your beloved Tumble Magnet s, though, as they would defeat the purpose of getting out something big, quickly. This would eliminate the huge, t7 cmc cost for Spine of Ish Sah and Myr Battlesphere . In this case, you could eliminate the hawks and put, say, 3x Shape Anew and add 1x more Glimmerpoint Stag . As more of a spec-ops unit and less of a unit that you are searching for to get out, it would be good to have more then one stag - at the very least 2. Venser and the stag are like a sniper duo; Venser is the spotter, and the Stag is the sniper :)

I know this may be just for the lols, given our long previous convo about it, but what about Luminarch Ascension in this deck? You could fit one in, in fact I know you can. Furthermore, it would be a wincon on its own, adding to the deck's dexterity, threat, and control. It forces your foe onto a 4 turn-max timer where they will be forced to throw everything at you, and you can hopefully counter / kill some stuff as they make rash decisions. This will put you in that much better a position to take the time you need to summon the right artifact or creature. I might have to pull a jessetaverne here and say ''i really mean the suggestion, and its almost mandatory xD'' :P

Also, that AEther Adept in your sideboard is just mean.

Love the Sunblast Angel idea, here are my suggestions with my arguments:

-1 Sun Titan (I know this might startle you, but you dont really need him in here (IMO). If its for damage, Frost Titan and others will suffice. And you have enough control to block big threats.

-1 Myr Battlesphere (doesnt fit in here as well as it could, and there is no point in sub-paring it when you could have something better in its slot)

-1 Spine of Ish Sah (what are you going to be destroying that your other cards cannot deal with? A land? Mr. Blightsteel Colossus ? It would be better if your deck was built around this card, but its not)

-1 Treasure Mage (with the other two artifacts gone, you dont need him)

-4 Wall of Omens (just.. nope. Not with your other new options)

-2 Day of Judgment (replacable by sunblast)

-1 Journey to Nowhere (awesome card, but with the amount of control that will be going on, you dont need it. If you cant part with it, consider -1 Deprive )

+1 AEther Adept (just for that special creature you cant permanently get rid of by normal means, or to insult the guy who just used Shape Anew to cast a blightsteel

+3 Glimmerpoint Stag (stag army FTW! You will be able to flicker your stuff and their stuff all over the place, letting you restock your Tumble Magnet s, control their permanents (and often, by extension, their turns), and maximize the ''enter battlefield'' bonuses of your own creatures. The more stags with venser, the better.

+2 Sunblast Angel (acts as your living Day of Judgment

+2 Sleep (invaluable if your using Mrs. Sunblast)

And, while im at it,

WOAH! -3 Jace Beleren , +2 Temple Bell , +1 Sun Titan !!

Why? .1) Temple Bell has awesome flavour text. And no Jace means no hate. .2) What would you be sacrificing loyalty counters from jace for? Nothing. What about his ultimate? It doesnt fit with the rest of your deck, nothing else here seeks to mill. 3) With temple bell, you can activate it twice each turn; draw a card at the begin (already equivalent to all that baby jace is good for to you), exile it, then draw again in the end step. If you had Voltaic Key , you could do this 3 times in one turn. And with all the cheaper permanents, Sun Titan is back in the game.

Oops, forgot to add a +2 Luminarch Ascension to that XD

Is your deck suppose to be 59 cards? Just to point out

Love the deck btw +1

Have you considered the Silence , Mnemonic Wall and Venser, the Sojourner combo?

@metaphysical:

i was just making a copy of the deck with all your suggestions worked into it because i was curious as to what the manacurve would look like, you can see it here: deck:vensers-bouncing-blubber-copy (i think it's not enough of a curve tbh..). I was actually at 59 cards as i removed a spell and did not add a 2nd stag which i meant to do (thanks to Cookieboy1221 for noticing), so you came 1 suggestion short. I do think that after my comments below there is little more you can have me change though, do try!

To address the ones you made:

-3 Jace Beleren / NO SIR!: I will have it stay!! Yes it can effectively be replaced with Temple Bell , but aside from the regular extra draw that's always amazing there's one point you overlooked.

It kills big jace and big jace can't be played with baby brother in play (without killing itself).

Seriously. My Jace killer. <3

-4 Wall of Omens / +4 Squadron Hawk : I feel that i need some early protection, whether it be in the form of walls or hawks, that is something i'm willing to discuss about, but these chumps are quite necessary. And i do think hawks might be better, so I will -4 the walls, but replace them with hawks. The hawks did not end up in your eventual suggestion, but i think i'll have to pass on the other suggestions replacing this one.

-2 Day of Judgment /+2 Sunblast Angel : hmmm If I up my Glimmerpoint Stag count and drop my expensive artifacts this seems like a good switch. Although i think that i could encounter problems with aggro decks if i'm not able to wipe them, Day of Judgment is 2 turns faster than the angel and wipes out everything, where the angel doesn't (unless u get 1/2 tumble magnets on the field, which i'll admit is not unlikely). Also the hawks and Sleep help with protection until turn 6... I will make the switch.

-1 Myr Battlesphere , -1 Spine of Ish Sah and -1 Treasure Mage / +1 Tumble Magnet , +1 Glimmerpoint Stag and +1 Sleep : I'm not sure about this, as the artifacts and their fetcher are good win-conditions next to venser's ultimate and the titans. The magnet, stag and sleep are nice to have though, I think this will help indeed. Fine I'll do it :)

-1 Journey to Nowhere : Sure, this can go for a Sleep .

Leaving me with 2 other suggestions you made: Luminarch Ascension and AEther Adept .

My thoughts on the Luminarch Ascension are as follows:

It's great against a deck that can afford the aggressive attitude it invokes in an opponent. They will throw as much damage-per-turn on you as they possibly can and this is a scenario i would not like to see. If anything I would like for them to go slow until i dominate with venser/stag/titan/angel. Even though you pulled a "jessetaverne" on me, which i think is wonderful, i will not comply, jessetaverneing you right back :P. If however it seems that i can stabilize my board presence fast enough i will reconsider it.

The AEther Adept :

I'm just not sure about this card. On the one hand it's a win condition when venser's ultimate is online, on the other hand it's a bit underwhelming until then. What to replace for it? I just don't know...

@Cookieboy1221:

Thanks for noticing the 59 card thingy, i had forgotten to add a 2nd stag. Yes the silence/mnemonic lock was in here, but the walls just proved to be not good enough, even though the silence lock is pretty nice to have, it requires too much effort to set up.

aaaaaaaaaaamazing.

Whew, thanks people :D One more vote and we've reached the legendary 60 point mark :D

Keep 'em coming! I'm open to any suggestions still :D

(also i recommend playtesting the deck, it's fun even without an opponent xD)

have you thought about Spine of Ish Sah ?

Hehe, read comments 93-97 to know why it's not in here anymore.

Still, i see why you'd recommend it. It's been in the deck for a while.