May I ask why Thrun, the Last Troll is in the main? It seems more of a side-board card to me.

It helps make all control matches a win for me, and he is very useful outside of control matches, due to how difficult he is to remove.

There's not enough room for him as a sideboard card, and he doesn't really hurt my main deck at all since he's basically using a free slot. A lot of my one ofs are cards that are basically sideboard cards that are good enough to be used in the main board. A basically invincible 4/4 body for four mana isn't really hurting my board.

I'd like to know why you think this version of Amulet combo is better than the traditional build of amulet combo using Hive Mind along with the other 0 cost spells (namely Pact of Negation and Slaughter Pact ) in addition to Summoner's Pact for the win? I'm not saying one is better than the other, but why you chose to go all-in on a toolbox-like deck rather than go for the fast win with Hive Mind?

*Note that the traditional build also uses Primeval Titan as a wincon as well

The Hive Mind build is a lot weaker in control matches, and is like another combo that you need to look for pieces of in order for it to be useful.

My build is a lot more resilient to disruption (Cavern of Souls doesn't work on Hive Mind for example). I am also a lot more resilient to decks like zoo since my "free" slots can be used as chump blockers. I don't like the pact/hive mind approach mainly because they are all dead cards unless you have a lot of mana, which is a major problem. The extra cards should be used to keep your head above water when you aren't winning, not serve as a win more function. I will admit that sometimes Hive Mind would win when my other cards don't win on the spot, but at what cost to the deck? It's almost like more of a "glass-cannon" approach, it just doesn't seem worth it to me. Moreover, I don't like to netdeck. If you look at my deck's post date, it was up before the whole Matthias Hunt thing ever happened. The concept of an Amulet of Vigor mana engine has been floating around for a long time, neither he nor I came up with the idea.

At first this list was just a creature toolbox list, but when I remembered about Glittering Wish , I realized this was the one deck type where it could really shine. There's so many useful wish targets that it's really hard to actually choose what goes in the sideboard and what doesn't. I'm basically running a 70 card deck right now, without having the dead draws game 1. It's extremely useful and has an answer for basically everything. My only complaint is that Slaughter Games doesn't hit non-basic lands. I'd love if it was more useful against tron, instead of just naming Karn.

That makes sense. I personally don't own or use an amulet deck, but my mill deck using Surgical Extraction s absolutely wrecks the traditional build. (One game I turn 2 double extracted both Primeval Titan and Hive Mind from thier GY after milling them with landfall from Hedron Crab ). So I can understand you not using Hive Mind. I was just wondering how you came to that conclusion. Thanks!

Here's my +1 on the great deck you have. I'd like a rematch one day :-P (not sure you'll remember me)

Hehe, thanks. I tend to not use this deck very often because a lot of people tend to rage quit against it... It's still my favorite deck that I've made though, so I do use it once in a while.

I'm up for a rematch if I ever see you on when I'm testing stuff.

So I made a few changes to the deck again...

Mainly was making my cards more color friendly in the sideboard. A lot less mana concerns now, which allowed me to cut a Tendo Ice Bridge again for an Acidic Slime as a cheaper version of Woodfall Primus (on the fence about which fits the deck better).

I'm still strongly considering Garruk Wildspeaker and/or Trade Routes too, but I just can't seem to find the space. I might end up cutting Drain the Well since Acidic Slime basically has that slot covered now, but that only frees up a slot in the sideboard, which unfortunately doesn't help me squeeze either one in...

If I do end up cutting it, a third copy of Chalice of the Void or Engineered Explosives / Crime/Punishment are the most likely candidates to fill its slot. I love all the choices I can make with this deck, but sometimes it really sucks that there is so many viable ones...

Privileged Position will keep your creatures alive against burn/removal/exile.

Hmm, in place of what? I don't see space for something that mana intensive that actually does nothing right away. Yes, it would be useful against a very select number of decks that are all control and win from you drawing to death pretty much, but I seldom see a deck control heavy enough to include it. Most decks with lots of control have some type of beater(s) so my own removal is generally more useful. It would be extremely nice alongside Elderscale Wurm but I still don't see how I can justify making room for it in either board.

If you see a way to include it somehow, i'll definitely give it a shot and see how it goes, but I just don't see it right now. I just think I'd rather cast Sigarda, Host of Herons or Acidic Slime at that CMC in almost every single situation.

I was reading the description of this deck and I was just like... wat

+1

This must be a blast to pilot, its fun, probably different every game, now a couple questions cuz im really considering building since its still not to expensive

1) How often do you mulligan?

2) How has this done against other competitive decks that you've played against?

Thanks:) and +1

Crazybop09

I rarely mulligan, the usual cases of mulligan are no land hands (or all lands) which happens with any deck, or I am searching for a Leyline of Sanctity against RDW or 8 rack. Even after the first mulligan, I rarely have to mulligan again, and if I do, it is usually very bad if I'm not on the draw. The deck can function on a 4 card opener (and still win turn 2-3) but that's really rare, I try not to go below 5 cards unless it is absolutely necessary (no lands).

The only thing worth mentioning is that sometimes a single bounce land hand is potentially capable of going off and winning two turns after you draw in a normal land, so I am on the fence whether to keep hands like that or not. It's usually about 50/50 that I throw it away and there was a land up top (I hate taking the risk because I kept a hand like that once and went 7 turns without drawing a land, probably would have won if I mulligan'd it away).

It does very well against all the tier 1 decks. The toughest match up is definitely Splinter Twin since they generally win game 1 unless I have a really good opener. However, games 2 and 3 are in our favor a little since you can pretty much two for 1 them with Abrupt Decay and Putrefy or just eliminate the infinite combo with Slaughter Games changing them into a weird tempo deck. The match up is still pretty much a coin toss due to generally throwing away the first game in a lot of cases. I've considered Rakdos Charm against it also, but it just didn't seem to justify inclusion because using up a slot for it hurts in some other match(es).

Aside from Splinter Twin matches, I feel every match is slightly in our favor, at least. I'd say the next hardest matches are Melira pod and blue moon, which still aren't too bad of a match up once you side in instant speed removal for the problems.

Of course, that's just with my current sideboard, you are free to tweak it as much as you'd like, and possibly even change up the whole Glittering Wish package or remove it all together. It is a beneficial card against the more controlling/tempo decks, while hindering you slightly against the aggressive combo decks. I feel it helps in more matches than it hurts, which is why I use it, but that's totally up to whomever is piloting the deck. I'd mainboard 2 abrupt decays if you planned to eliminate it, and change up the mana base a bit to support more black costs (Golgari Rot Farm in place of a Selesnya Sanctuary )

I love the Glittering Wish addition, allows alot of answers mid game for alot of decks, that just wont be prepared for that. Have you thought about adding Kessig Wolf Run or Pact of Negation ?

I used to have Kessig Wolf Run in here, but it doesn't do enough anymore. I'd rather fetch Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion for damage, and if I don't need that, Mosswort Bridge or Tolaria West is basically always a better target. It's basically a win more card that was cut, much like Patron of the Moon who was there to go infinite with Kessig Wolf Run and a bounce land (with Amulet of Vigor out).

Pact of Negation is just too high of a cost for a counterspell for me. I had it in the side at one point, but I'd probably include Engineered Explosives as a transmute target again before I considered re-adding it. It might be "free" but I just don't have the blue to support its upkeep cost currently, and if I tweaked my manabase to support it, it makes it a lot harder to cast other things.

Ahh okay, that makes sense I just love this deck, if i could +1 it like 100 times i would, you dont rely on just primeval titan to win, you have elderscale which stops RDW in its tracks, you have Thrun, the Last Troll which smacks control in the face, its perfect. only problem id say for this deck is Blood Moon but you do have sideboard answers for it and thats why Glittering Wish is so good. And control decks takes 4-5 turns to get out Blood Moon by that time, you won.

May I ask as to the reason you avoided the Hive Mind back up plan?

I can actually play through a resolved blood moon in a lot of cases. It's just good to have instant removal for it too, which is where Abrupt Decay and Destructive Revelry come in. Float the mana that's not red before it resolves, then remove it when it does.

If you're facing a resolved Blood Moon 1 green mana source is usually enough, since Lotus Cobra still produces the colors you need. Ghost Quarter doubles as a psuedo-Forest if you had it out before a moon also. So basically, you're looking for at least one of those 10 cards in your opener if you think you'll be facing a Blood Moon which is pretty good odds. Honestly, the only card that really hoses the deck is Iona, Shield of Emeria naming green. But the only time I've faced a deck running one was a reanimator, and if you pack some grave hate (currently 6-7 sources - pacts + ooze and wheel, 7 sources if you keep the two wishes main to get wheel), it's a lesser annoyance.

fluffybunnypants

1. I designed this before that archetype existed, and two, even after I heard of it, I felt it was a win-more plan, or more of a "glasscannon" approach if you will.

I found it to be another combo shoved in there that is almost totally useless without a lot of mana and/or the other pieces. Pacts are dead cards if you can't pay for the upkeep next turn, and Hive Mind does nothing on its own. I'd rather have mini threats in their place, as I currently do. My "mana dorks" that fill those slots serve other purposes too. Courser of Kruphix filters through my deck with all the play extra land effects (and helps with burn/most damage based decks), Lotus Cobra helps against Blood Moon , and can become insane ramp / what's needed for Mosswort Bridge . Mosswort Bridge ends games just as fast as Hive Mind in a lot of cases, but it doesn't really need separate combo pieces. My little mana dorks with 2 power are enough alongside my 8 power titan.

How do you feel about Oracle of Mul Daya ? i know the Courser gains you life, but since you win so fast, what do you think?

I've tried it out, and the 4 mana slot is just such an odd spot. I can basically cast things that make an impact on the game by the time I have 4 mana open (it's usually 4-6 mana by the time I hit 4), an accelerator isn't really what I want there. I can turn 2 things in the 3 mana slot a lot of the time, but a 4 mana slot is turn 3 at the earliest, unless I have a really amazing hand (in which case I don't want to be casting a mana dork with no toughness).

The life gain isn't really what made me choose Courser of Kruphix the toughness and CMC is what made it the better option. Being Lightning Bolt proof is huge, and 3 CMC allows for me to cast it an entire turn earlier.

Basically, my cards are split into categories of when I usually am casting them.

Turn 1: 1 CMC

Turn 2: 1-3 CMC (can pact for Azusa sometimes, depends on hand)

Turn 3: 4-6 CMC or multiples of 1-3 CMC

Turn 4: 4-7 CMCTurn 5: 6-9 CMC

Usually games don't last beyond that, and I'll have either won or lost by that point. I generally have 4 mana open turn 3-4 depending on my opening hand, so I don't really want to be casting a 2/2 at that point, as its board presence is generally irrelevant.

Ahh makes sense, so how fun would you say piloting this deck is and successful?

Sorry for the 2498598459 questions, i love mana ramp decks, i usually run elfs in modern but this struck me as something new and really fun.

It's really fun to pilot, but challenging at the same time. Even I make misplays with it, and I designed the thing. There's just so many options and triggers that it is sometimes difficult to keep track of everything. I see that as a good thing though...

I'd suggest really buckling down and learning triggers and when you can respond to certain things if you want to try and pilot the thing (stacking triggers in the correct order is vitally important), as the Mosswort Bridge s can make things particularly difficult to follow sometimes when you are searching for an answer or something.

Also, pact upkeeps are something you never want to forget, throwing away a game due to a simple mistake like that is something you really don't want to do (I've done it twice myself though, is inevitable, we are all human and make mistakes).

If you are up for the challenge though, go for it. It really is a fun deck to play, and it's priceless when you catch them off guard with Mosswort Bridge responses when they think you're a non-responsive mono green deck (Glittering Wish into instant removal is always funny - especially Fracturing Gust game 1).