Still think vampires will not be close to T1 soon, as long as wizards doesn't print more vampires that are resilient to Lightning Bolt.

Lightning Bolt eh?
Wait till you are on the receiving end of end of Electrolyze or Arc Lightning/Flames of the Firebrand...

Vampires definitely need more toughness.

Why is that the case tho? Hate bears or Jund zoo see play and wild nacatl loam lions Kurd apes vexing devil etc etc all due to the same removal as these vamps. But the vamps can work together to over power bolt.

Yeah. Honestly "dies to removal" is not a good argument.

Dies to removal is a fantastic argument in all but 3 cases.

• The creature that died cost the same as the removal.
• The creature achieved something significant before it could be removed (strong ETB)
• The creature had to be removed otherwise it would single handedly win the game with no further cards cast.

Vampires do not fall into any of these categories. They cost a reasonable amount of mana, they generally do not have ETBs and none of them are single-handed game winners bar Olivia.

In order to understand modern you need to understand tempo, and the first general rule of that is that if your opponent can answer your plays for less mana than it took you to make them then you will lose. Likewise if you can achieve your goals in the game for less mana than it takes for the opponent to prevent you then you will win. For example, losing a Vampire Nighthawk to a Lightning Bolt is a huge problem on T3 because you "wasted" 2 mana. The opponent can then respond with their own threat such as a Tarmogoyf which then puts the pressure on your to respond. If the game continues like this you'll always be behind.

Its important to understand why "dies to removal" is a really crucial part of this game.

You have good points, but vampires do have ways to circumvent these issues (Bloodghast, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, Viscera Seer to a degree. And Gatekeeper helps put you ahead). I was getting at the fact that literally everything dies to removal. I myself prefer to run a lot of low-costed creatures that get bigger either on their own or via lord. Like, Stromkirk Noble usually needs to be dealt with immediately or it will cause problems as the game progresses. My vamps have typically done just fine in the face of the same removals you mentioned. Borax runs draw power to mitigate losing a single card to a single card.

You do seem to understand tempo very well, but I wouldn't dismiss an entire decktype as unviable just because Lightning Bolt exists. We still see 2 mana creatures running around that die to bolt. Scavenging Ooze dies to it. Dark Confidant has to be around for a turn before he does anything, and he dies to bolt. Just as examples.

Vampires have a good affinity matchup, as well as infect barring the odd turn 2 kill. They struggle against burn. Against Jund/Abzan it's midrange vs. midrange, and Naya Zoo's suicidal aggro tendancies actually help vamps gain momentum.

I follow the modern meta pretty closely. That's why I also play Infect, Burn and Living End. Vampires certainly aren't top tier, but given that they do have occasional tops, they're far from unviable as a rogue deck.

Scavenging Ooze shouldn't really be dying to bolt unless you've misplayed. Dark Confidant is a category C "The creature had to be removed otherwise it would single handedly win the game with no further cards cast." DC just wins games.

I'm not trashing the deck at all though, I'm just explaining how and why dies to removal is a thing.

The deck itself is fine its just a slightly worse version of Jund which means it must be pretty good.

I could go on citing examples if you like. Vampire Nighthawk is a weird example to cite anyway because if you're not up against an especially aggressive deck, he forces stalemates like no tomorrow paired with Stromkirk Captain.

I guess my point is "removal exists" isn't a reason to not play permanents.

ChiefBell
"The deck itself is fine its just a slightly worse version of Jund which means it must be pretty good."

Really?
It runs Liliana of the Veil, Dark Confidant, & both removal and creatures. And that's where similarities end.
Jund is a goodstuff deck, thus it tries to play all of "THE BEST" cards.

Tribal deck obviously don't even attempt to do that. That doesn't make it a "bad Jund deck".
Instead they try to use cards that enhance each other.
Of course these cards in themselves are not the best, but combined with others they offer great value.
I think Stromkirk Captain is one of the best examples of this, in itself a 2/2 first striker, for 3 mana, is just subpar - but if it grants all your other creatures first strike, it can win the game.

Of course this means that if only 1 creature is present on board, then all tribal decks preform poorly, compared to goodstuff decks. However this tend to be the result of a recently resolved boardwipe, and thankfully the current meta is not overflowing with such effects.

Not really. This deck is exceedingly similar to Jund.

1. It runs a value suite of lili and dark confidant, 2 of the overarching strongest cards on offer in black because they both provide decks with huge boosts to their ability to control the field.
2. There's an emphasis on multi-for-one value cards like k-command, DC, lili. This is so you maintain more cards in hand than the opponent.
3. It runs a removal suite of bolt, terminate, k-command, which cuts the deck into an effective aggro section and an effective control section.
4. It runs a discard suite of seize, IOK which both hinder combo T1.
5. It runs a multi-layered strategy with flexible options whether you're ahead or behind. It has the ability to quickly switch between control and aggression.
6. It has a high dependence on the two mana slot and ideally wants to start making plays ASAP before board control is lost.

The creature suite is the only significant difference at which point you still see a predictable dependence on 2 mana threats with a smattering of 3+ mana options.

Out of the 39 nonland cards at least 22 are undeniably the same choices Jund would make and if you want to go further 26 are arguably similar choices to a Jund deck.

Jund is not a goodstuff deck out of choice, it is a goodstuff deck out of necessity. I.e., if you want to outvalue your opponent with multiple 2-for-1s then you end up running all of the best cards. People don't build Jund because they want to play all of the best cards and then end up playing a solid control deck with aggro tendencies. They end up building Jund because they want to play a solid control deck with aggro tendencies that just happens to be made of very, very solid cards.

The philosophy of both decks is exceedingly similar. Again here you have a deck with both control and aggressive leanings that happens to run many of the best cards in black. They're the best cards in black because they perform their function in the most effective way. You choose them for the function, not because they're the best. Jund and this deck run Terminate and Lightning Bolt because they want to clear the way for their creatures, not because they think, "ah well everyone else is doing it so it must be good!".

The key divergence that might be confusing you is that Jund wants to run creatures that stand on their own two feet, making them very good topdecks when you're behind, whereas a tribal deck goes for a synergistic view in the same way Affinity would. Both have pros and cons, but again Jund isn't doing what it's doing because some card is arbitrarily labelled "the best". It's choosing Tarmogoyf because it is literally the best 2 mana creature you can topdeck when you're behind, and the most efficient beater when you're ahead. It has a purpose that it fills specifically.

So Jund and this deck share: strategy (midrange, control-aggro options), card choices (over 50% shared cards, terminate, bolt, DC), deck breakdown (6 discard, 10+ removal, 3+ lili, 14+ creatures), tempo (majority of plays come T2-T3).

Also I'd like to point out that at least 20% of the meta is board wipes at the moment. Jund (10% meta roughly, Damnation and Anger of the Gods common), Tron (5% meta roughly, Oblivion Stone), Jeskai Control (5% meta roughly, Supreme Verdict).

I'm a bit bewildered why this is a point you even had to argue. This is an aggro-control deck that makes the majority of its play T2 and T3 with the ability to quickly shift focus between removing threats and playing them depending on the board state. Jund is an aggro-control deck that makes the majority of its play T2 and T3 with the ability to quickly shift focus between removing threats and playing them depending on the board state.

They're both good. Jund is better but this isn't bad at all.

How much % of Jund runs 4x Damnation or Anger of the Gods, since 2 of in the sideboard, can hardly be called an always present threat... it would be better described with "it may be drawn on game 2 & 3 or maybe not"

Actually, having played vampires for several years (2010), the deck's playstyle is remarkably similar to Jund. It actually used to be more like current Naya zoo. But it's surprisingly very jund-like.

The sided boardwipes are why Bloodghast is so useful. I also run mutavault to dodge sorcery speed removal like Damnation. Granted Anger of the Gods can be a problem. I don't run hand disruption since I was going for a more aggressive structure, since otherwise I'd just be playing a weaker Jund deck. But they're useful, without a doubt.

I've been running a very low to the ground build that features Blood Moon (way too much flavor). I have to say that curving Falkenrath Gorger into Liliana of the Veil feels PRETTY powerful.

True Blood [Modern Vampires]

Hi Happymaster19, glad to see you still around and about, trying to improve. I said it before but I like how your deck's shaping up. Borax here is the other posterboy for vamps, but his build is more control, mine is more aggro.

Haha. Thanks, YamishiTheWickedOne. It's pretty interesting how many doors have been opened for vampires. SOI block has been great for tribes in general. The midrange feel if this build seems like it would match up better against more controlly decks while maintaining enough removal to keep pace with faster aggro decks such as my own take on the archetype.

Your deck look's really good, but some of the points that are given inn the comments have a point. Why dont change out 2 dark confidant for 2 vampire nocturnus, since you have alot of cards that are both black and red. Also only 21 lands, means you have a pretty good chance of a black top card. Or am i far away with this suggestion? I also have a vampire deck im working on that is black/blue control.
Upvote + 1 from me.

I'm so glad to see that you're sticking with a tribal themed deck even though it's not considered to be "top tier". I've been playing magic for a long time now and I started playing modern with merfolk and as more cards came out, the more my deck developed into what is now a recognized competitive deck build in the format. Your deck is very good as it is, and it does seem to have a slight similarity to that of Jund but it is unique in itself. I would love to see vampires being played more competitively, and it will happen once more staples for the build arise. As of right now you probably have one of the best decklists out there for vampire tribal because you have learned to play it and understand the mechanics of it so well just from playing it for so long (likely from trial and error and testing out what works best and what doesn't - I know how that goes). A well earned +1 from me good sir. I'll be back here again as more sets release to watch this deck develop and try to offer some suggestions when I can.

Hey Borax. Wanted to bring Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord to your attention. Also love the Bloodborne ref (been playing it again, ofc my main is a pure Chikage/Evelyn build)

Hey YamishiTheWickedOne long time no see! Thank you, I love Bloodborne, it’s probably my favorite game that’s ever been. I ran a Blades of Mercy/Burial Blade build that was pretty wicked. Also, I have been considering the new Sorin, I just haven’t sat down and considered my Vampire for awhile, truth be told. I think he would slot in very well especially paired with the Bloodghast . Any suggestions for replacements?

Hmmm as for what to cut I'm in a similar place. He's a definite four-of if I'm not using Liliana, still a 3 if I am. The "version 2" of my deck is way closer to your more control-oriented shell. I'm ironing out the wrinkles still, there are too many vamps now worthy of a slot. I remember when I ran 14 mainboard turn 1 creatures, seriously. Cordial Vampire is a really good card imo too because he paints a target on his head for removal and punishes opponents for getting trigger happy with their bolts. Also besides IoK and Thoughtseize, Rakdos has REALLY gotten a lot of POWERFUL control options recently, many synergize with Ghast. We had Terminate and Lightning Bolt already, then we got Liliana of the Veil in the same set as Olivia and crew, then Liliana, the Last Hope , Kolaghan's Command , Fatal Push and Collective Brutality . Oh and now Unearth is legal. Liliana's Triumph and Cast Down on the power creep train.

I was kinda ehh over Zealot at first, but I mean draw power is at a premium, and he's a vamp who affects the game upon coming into play, a removal on him is pointless. I'm seriously on the fence over Legion Lieutenant being worth an entire white splash.

Oh and My Chikage/Evelyn l100 build recently got a full set of 32.6% blood damage gems via new breakthroughs in chalice dungeon farming. The Holy Grail of blood gems according to the community. I use the BoM w/ brainsucker nourishing flat arcanes as a secondary for r1 spammers and speed control. This build is terrifying. A vampire who can 2-shot 120s with a parry tool. I've also been really fond of the Charred hunter set because it has decent stats and I look like Victorian Batman.

Oh, another card I saw recently is Vampire of the Dire Moon . Yep, they finally made a 1 mana nighthawk. They're REALLY pushing Mardu cards with Vamp Nighthawk and Lightning Helix effects lately. Burn's back in the top 5 decks and Infect lives again, Scale Up making them able to kill turn 2 with only 3 spells. Truly an exciting time to be a modern player. They need to fix Phoenix/Dredge/Humans to be just a bit less broken imo though. At least it's not Eldrazi with both lands.

So, Borax, any specific reason for Nighthawk over Nightpenguin (Gifted, look at his mask)?