Sorry to bother, I was wondering your thoughts on Hall of the Bandit Lord? It seems like it’d be a great land to include.

Derp, I should really read the tap symbol. How I’d love to delete that comment.

Cave-In or Pyrokinesis because free?

Free is good, but unfortunately they rely on card advantage to be free, which we don't really have available. And they're really expect aive to hard cast. I prefer thunderclap for the free removal personally.

Are there any new cards in C18 you’re excited about?

So far about the only one I like is treasure nabber. It does one of two things, both of which we like. If they play around Sol goblin, it's a sort of stax piece, slowing your opponents ramp. If they use their artifact Mana anyways, it helps ramp us into other ramp, stax pieces, or the main combo. It also shuts down chain veil shenanigans and non-instant-speed paradox lines. But unfortunately doesn't stop scepter.

How will it play out in practice? That's to be seen I think. It may be bonkers. Or it could be underwhelming. I could honestly see it go either way haha. Probably a meta card. But I'm excited to try it out at least.

I think Reality Scramble could be an interesting Possibility Storm lite card for the deck. Thoughts?

I don't think it really does enough. I suppose it gets helm back in the deck if Godo is removed, and trades it for what is probably ramp. But I don't think that justifies a 4 Mana card slot. Is there another application I'm missing?

What about adding dualcaster mage? Seems like good value with heat shimmer and twinflame...

What about adding dualcaster mage? Seems like good value with heat shimmer and twinflame... imperial recruiter can fetch him up too!

Have you thought about playing Snow covered mountains and Skred? Or is it too unlikely that it'll be better than just using Lightning Bolt?

Deceptachron - dualcaster was in a first version of the deck. It's too expensive to use as a for at 1RR. As a backup line it certainly works, but with only one turor (and no tutors for the other half of the combo) it just isn't consistent enough to be a good backup wincon.

Gates88 - you called it there. Yeah sometimes it's a better bolt. Too often though, it's a worse bolt. Being able to guaranteed kill our own godo if we need to is reason enough to stick with the classic. Hitting players or planeswalkers isn't irrelevant either.

Everybody - couple tweaks to the deck. I'm back on strionic in the main list. And I think Slobad (despite living up to his name) is a good include as well. I'm still testing the new treasure nabber, not sure what I think of it yet.

How would you deal with True-Name Nemesis? It seems red is incapable of removing TNN and it easily stops this deck from winning..

Plkjasonhk - the combo can usually win through true name, sometimes it's tricker than others.

Cast Godo, get helm, equip. Let's say player C has tnn. Go to combat, make token 1, attack player A. Untap token 1, go to combat, make token 2. Attack play A with only token 2. Repeat until player A is dead, leaving you with a number of untapped Godo's equal to player A's lifetotal divided by 3. Do the same for player B. On the final attack step, swing in with the untapped godo army on player C, most of whom will get around true name nemesis. Player c will take damage equal to (player A's life) + (player B's life) which is usually enough to kill player C.

You still will have trouble with TNN against unusual life totals, or against spite-scoops (which is legal but super cheesy). If you find TNN is a regular occurrence in your meta, swap out some of the spot removal for board sweepers and that's your answer. Things like pyroclasm, fiery cannonade, electrickery (one of my favs).

You can still beat it with Godo equipped with helm, hammer, and argentum armor... It's just kinda slow. Remember that the helm combo tutors hammer and armor equipped. You'll get to attack with OG Godo twice per turn plus one more token each time. You'll still leave a blocker token up (since the token from combat number three would be the only attacker and die to TNN, there's no point in swinging.). If the blocker token survives, you can use it as an attacker on the following turn. You will also get to destroy two of his permanents per turn to hopefully keep him off an alternate win. By splitting up argentum and helm/hammer on two different Godo's you'll get in for a minimum of 8 damage (5 of it commander) per turn assuming you can nuke his other blocker with argentum. That's slow, but it's still possible.

Whoops, ignore the middle paragraph there. Just woke up and still being dumb haha. Everything else holds.

I'm sorry, I hate to be a bother, but could you space your changes or do a changelog, please? I follow your deck closely and love the list.

As for the T4T vs. Slobad, sigh idk, I feel like spell-based interaction can be better than creature-based. But, Slobad can help with repeated attempts to take out Helm or Hammer...

Sorry hurricane. I do t know why I always forget to put new lines in the changes section.

Yeah, the (Slobad v t4t v daretti v none) decision is a tough one. I feel like the deck needed at least one more response to nature's claim. Slobad was my instinctual choice. But it was pointed out on the discord that adding two Mana before the combo was often much harder than three Mana after. And the benefits we get from Slobad vs a dead spell in hand are likely marginal. It is true that Slobad will prevent multiple artifact destructions, rather than just one recursion from t4t. Slobad also telegraph's much more, where t4t might be able to steal a win the following turn when you no longer appear as a threat. I could see arguments for either card to be honest.

How do you deal with indestructible blockers with enough power to kill th

@slover -

You swing with each token copy of godo one time at another opponent, building them up as 3 attackers which are untapped.

You do this until each other opponent is dead, leaving you with ~10-14 copies of godo per opponent killed untapped and ready to swing in one combat phase.

The last combat phase being the one where you overwhelm the one opponent with an indestructible blocker with all the copies of godo that only swung once.

gtoast99 Great deck; i absolutely love it! :)

But i'm curious, how do you protect Godo, Bandit Warlord from Gilded Drake?

Thanks! If for whatever reason you have godo and helm, but couldn't equip and got draked, you can equip Drake with helm and go to combat. This will make a new Drake that you can use to get godo back, but you'll have to wait another turn to go infinite.

If you've got magnetic theft you can use that to equip you helm to their godo and win.

Or bolt him and recast. That's another reason we tried to keep the damage spells to 3 rather than 2 damage.

If it's a big problem in your meta, or you just really like the godo-pass line, you can run homeward path, but I think the list has enough non-red lands already.

Thanks four your very detailed answer.

Hey! Been watching this list for a couple months now. I have a few cards and wondered what your thoughts on them were;

Glasses of Urza: This has been nice to check hands for counters/removal/any interaction. Downside is it doesnt help our gameplay much at all.

Experimental Frenzy: Only seen this be played in standard and draft environments but it seems like it could be very useful when you empty your hand.

Smoke: this stops mana dorks and slows any creature aggro (namely tymna and edric in my meta), while not affecting us much at all.

Thoughts?

Finally assembled (a slightly modified version of) the deck and am playing it on cardboard. I went much lighter on stax and a little lighter on interaction in order to lean into speed and consistency. My initial thoughts after a few games and a few dozen fishbowls;

Out: Stranglehold, Chalice of the Void, Cursed Totem, Magus of the Moon, Defense Grid, Grafdigger's Cage, Trash for Treasure, Sequestered Stash, Scavenger Grounds, Abrade, Lightning Bolt, Shattering Spree, Last Chance, Heat Shimmer, Brass Squire

In: Ruby Medallion, Coldsteel Heart, Fire Diamond, Iron Myr, Skirk Prospector, Generator Servant, Soulbright Flamekin, Geosurge, Vandalblast, Vessel of Volatility, Helm of Awakening, Coalition Relic, Winding Canyons, Terrain Generator, Mountain

-Analyzing the Cuts-

Stranglehold: Both cumbersome and fairly narrow (relative to blood moon and possibility storm). Though it can prevent you from losing and even directly clear the path to a win in many situations, I've found it's almost always an unwieldy turd choking up my hand and badly slowing me down, that comes out too late to do what I need it to do (stop turn 1/2 tutors). I cut it and I'm quite confident in that decision, though I recognize this is largely a local meta call - I would think the base list should be the most generically applicable, no?

Cursed Totem, Defense Grid: Same reasons as Stranglehold, plus the bits of anti-synergy they bring to the deck. Basically, I've found that if I could combo a turn earlier, that's superior to protecting the win and comboing a turn later. So I replaced what I felt were the worst investment/return stax plays with ones that improved my acceleration/access to red and help to turn some of those turn 5 wins into turn 4's, and some of the 4's into 3's.

Magus of the Moon: I kept Bloodmoon. Both are chunky but very high value plays for the deck. One is easy to remove, however, while the other is not - and they don't stack with each other. Seemed simple enough. No regrets here.

Chalice of the Void: Anti-synergy, lack of reliability, and being cumbersome if you want to stop anything more than 0 drops. Though it may have stalled/stopped a problematic play here or there, it would often choke off my own plays while also replacing the casting of a rock, so having it in hand never felt good.

Grafdigger's Cage: A little too narrow, it fails to stop things like Auriok Salvagers, and generally answers strategies that are ~usually~ a touch too slow to matter to this deck. This was a tough cut, and it will probably go back in if the graveyard decks in my local meta start getting out of hand.

Trash for Treasure: A dead card unless things have gone awry in a fairly particular and uncommon way, so I feel that - at best - this card will turn a losing game into a winning one on rare occasions, and the rest of the time it will either be irrelevant or it will choke your hand and contribute to stalling a winning game into a losing one.

Heat Shimmer, Last Chance, Brass Squire: All for similar reasons. The cards in the 'Cost Reducer' category don't stack well, if at all, so I'd rather have none in hand than two or more - and these were the most sluggish and/or redundant options. Brass Squire was probably the toughest cut, but 3 mana for a summoning-sick boi that dies to artifact or creature hate is a recipe for disaster.

Abrade: All of the interaction in the deck is situational by nature, and hopefully all of it goes unused every game because Godo is winning too fast for it to matter. Unfortunately, sometimes things go wrong, and victory is put out of reach unless an answer is found. But an answer does not always mean victory, it often just means you're back in the game for the time being. Furthermore, every answer the decklist includes dilutes the sheer, tenacious velocity of the overall strategy - weakening it somewhat in general to strengthen it considerably in particular circumstances. Abrade's flexibility allows it to solve most types of problem (once), but a cost of 1R means it will often only be buying us another turn to get back on track, as it consumes vital developmental or critical-mass mana and will sometimes put the deck back a turn as a result. That delay will often see another deck combo out or play another lock. Thunderclap and Mogg Salvage, comparatively, will be dead answers more often than Abrade will - sometimes being the solution to a different problem than the one you've got - but when they ARE right, they often allow Godo to combo off as though the problem never existed at all, which is a critical difference. The value calculus is extremely complex here, but I concluded that while Abrade will sometimes spring you loose from a snare, it will result in a win less often than when Salvage or Clap do the same, and the deck still runs Chaos Warp for a catch-all solution that you're willing to pay through the nose for - it even solves way more problems for the low cost of 1 more than Abrade. This leaves Abrade as the awkward, redundant middle child of the removal suite, and removing it to reduce the odds of a hand choked with unneeded removal, while increasing the overall consistency of the deck by adding more mana-generators, was ultimately justified.

Lightning Bolt: It rides the same line as Abrade with different trade-offs. Excellent cards both, but I'm only willing to risk so many dead draws in any given game. I'd rather get shut down hard occasionally than lose easy wins because my hand log-jams with answers looking for problems, redundant tech, color screw, etc.

Shattering Spree: Traded for Vandalblast. Even with the elevated red fixing of my list, pouring all your red mana into a Spree to get the value from replicate is a tall or even unattainable order, and will usually cost at least one additional turn as your red sources dry up, preventing the casting of other critical red spells. Furthermore, the deck produces (4) almost as easily as it produces R, so even if you're only blowing up two artifacts, Vandalblast isn't much worse than Spree, if at all. 3 or more busted artifacts, and 'blast is almost certainly better than Spree.

Scavenger Grounds: Taken out for reasons similar to Grafdigger's cage - inelegant and somewhat narrow, I find color fixing to be more valuable than this effect. Basic Mountain isn't as sexy, but it's more helpful more often.

Sequestered Stash: I know this one will probably be controversial, but Buried Ruin already gives our Expedition Map a more aggressively costed recursion option to tutor for, making Stash a bit redundant. Ultimately, the deck's insatiable thirst for red-flavored mana coupled with this card's unwieldiness and 2nd-tier version of its effect convinced me to replace it with a basic mountain.

-Analyzing the Inclusions-

Terrain Generator: Has terrain generator been discussed? It's obviously extremely sub-optimal acceleration, but it only costs a little color fixing to gain access to a means of forcing your lands onto the battlefield, which makes drawing mountains hurt a little less. I run it in my build and I don't hate it, though activating it has only been the optimal play once, and I flubbed it to drop a 2-mana rock I couldn't use that turn, anyway. But the fact that it produces optimal plays at all is intriguing. Turn 1 mana crypt->terrain generator->mountain would be neat.

Winding Canyons: This is an untapped land that pretty much functions as a 'Cost Reducer' (8R instead of 10R), since casting Godo at EoT right before you untap, then untapping and equipping helm, is little different than playing and equipping him for 10R all in one main phase. So it's a potential cost reducer that always brings additional utility as a dependable, normal-speed land drop. It should be an auto-include in any Godo/Helm list.

Geosurge, Soulbright Flamekin, Vessel of Volatility, Coldsteel Heart, Iron Myr, Fire Diamond, Coalition Relic, Mountain: Speaking of color fixing, I went for Geosurge, Soulbright Flamekin, and Vessel of Volatility. Geosurge in particular has been a star, although I do have more reliable access to red fixing with modifications like Iron Myr, Fire Diamond, running an extra land, and swapping scavenging grounds and sequestered stash for more mountains. Coalition Relic is the best 3 mana rock with the narrow exception of Honor-Worn Shaku in Godo's particular case. I don't see how adding Worn Powerstone can really be justified in any colored deck (Flicker/twiddle tech not withstanding) without adding the relic first. Relic can generate red from a flood of colorless mana, and can unleash two red in a single turn if you haven't anything very important to spend R on the turn prior.

Skirk Prospector, Generator Servant: Skirk and Servant are both simple, efficient mana storage. Too bad Pentad Prism struggles in this deck... I've actually considered replacing some mountains with things like Exotic Orchard, City of brass, Aether Hub, etc, just to run the Prism. Servant pairs well with Brass Squire, in lists that include both.

Helm of Awakening: High risk, high reward acceleration, similar to Defense Matrix in execution, except it will often help you combo a turn earlier instead of making you wait a turn. Very red flavor, like Gamble. If played on combo turn, it makes Godo cost 1 less, so you need to cast just two more spells with colorless in their cost to see any value. If you're feeling bold or you're just plain desperate, drop it the turn before you combo and pray you survive, for maximum value. Pairs well with Final Fortune.

Vandalblast: Traded in for Shattering Spree. See 'Spree out' for reasoning.

Summary/TLDR: My list plays much more selfishly, much more all-in, higher risk/reward, and feels very, very 'red'. As a result, it mulligans less, and is generally faster and more consistent if nobody manages to interact with it meaningfully. It pays for this by struggling more and succumbing more easily when the pod is heavy with quick, efficient lockdown, but usually only if Godo doesn't find a turn 1-2 win. That said, the average win is still turn 3, with a big chunk of turn 4's as well. 2's, then 1's are probably the next most common, though still pleasantly surprising when they happen, and T5's are pretty rare; usually the deck is playing stax in those cases. T6+'s generally don't happen unless something has gone wrong.

With RNA coming soon, what do people think of Electrodominance? Seems like a reasonable replacement for other removal, and allows for instant speed stax/wheel effects.

Double red is a bit tricky, but I think this is a great “gotcha” for the mid game when we’re still short on mana. Even an EOT Defense Grid or Wheel will help set up to go off.

Not sure it’ll make the cut but I’m certainly gonna test it.