What do you do if your opponent fog on your craterhoof turn?

Can you win from that position?

Generally what you do is you also have Temur Sabertooth to help facilitate the replay of Hoof but, being totally honest here, no one I've seen runs Fog in competitive metas.

Shadow02

If I can still assemble an infinite mana combo from there, draw the deck, loop Eternal Witness through Temur Sabertooth for infinite casts, blow up all their permanents with Beast Within, use Somberwald Stag to kill the beasts I made, strip their hands with Thought-Knot Seer, slam all my stax, and pass the turn.

Or that rofl.

So Shaper, thoughts on Hulk as rebuilding tech?

Ohthenoises

We don't have sac outlets and Regal already serves a similar rebuilding role.

Wouldn't Concordant Crossroads be a better option than Survival? Since you'd rather cheat your combo pieces into play with Yisan than cast them since it's a lot more difficult to stop the ability than to counter the spell

the deck seems weak with three drops i find i want something better for three

millionlittlee

This list has the best reactive 3-drops you'll find (Reclamation Sage, Eternal Witness). If you're looking for something a little more proactive in that slot, maybe try Selvala, Heart of the Wilds (which ShaperSavant only recently took out), Elvish Archdruid/Ezuri, Renegade Leader (depending on how elf-heavy your deck is), or Fierce Empath (I'm always glad to have a Great Oak Guardian in my hand, you never know when you'll need one).

Ya i meant proactive. lol. the amount of reactive 3 drops is fine, but i find that if no one is doing anything i want something a little more flashy. lol

millionlittlee

You can try Selvala, but she's weaker than Priest in a good few respects. When I want something to increase speed, I grab Azusa. Wood Elves is okay too, but is underwhelming like most of the 3-drops.

ShaperSavant luckily i believe is she the best three drop lol.

I'm almost ways grabbing Azusa for quirion ranger and scryb ranger value.

Made some cuts: Goodbye, Hornet Queen and Elvish Visionary.

I never wanted to draw you, and I have Regal Force at 7 to fulfill both of your roles. Maybe someday I'll regret not being able to fully dunk with Choof, but I think Mirri's Guile and Sensei's Top are going to be much more useful in the vast majority of games.

Seems good and youre right they are bad draws at times

Interesting, I always thought that Elvish Visionary was the way not to deck you while drawing your entire deck because you draw one at a time. I can see Hornet Queen going, it feels like it was there just to pump Regal Force's draw trigger and CHoof. Maybe Glimpse of Nature can be tested too.

How do you deal when facing extreme hate/control?

(FE blue players keeping counterspells for yisan, or tables packing a large amount of instant speed spot removals aiming to prevent your turn 2 yisan?)

dmorales I don't see that as super important; just draw one Regal trigger less than your deck size. If you really need to dig from there you can do it with Eternal Witness/Temur looping Draught or any other number of lines.

Shadow02 Cavern of Souls against counters, Lightning Greaves / Swiftfoot Boots and taking Safekeeper lines against spot removal. In general against control you want to focus on more midrangey ramp/draw lines. I'd play things like Wood Elves and take more putting-lands-into-play lines, so you can continue to keep jamming Yisan. Command Beacon perhaps?

Either i'm missing something or did the exclusion of Elvish Archdruid stop you from doing the elf route. After playing with the update i've only done the land route as i went up

In my opinion the lands route is better than the elves route because of the synergy with the untap engines (the rangers) so there's no love lost for me but I'm not op.

Maybe I'm putting too much value on having access to two routes

So newly spoiled... I think it could see some testing in here? I mean, we could get a new line that would be double 3 verse for this + Azusa, Lost but Seeking, and it would give us all the utility we need to ramp even more with fetches and also to be able to get a decent Strip Mine lock on people, now that it is tutorable (compared to Crucible of Worlds). It could also let us replay Gaea's Cradle from the graveyard, or other big lands, if they ever get hit!

ShaperSavant worth testing in your opinion?

thegigibeast The issue is that you can't guarantee having seen your fetches or Strip Mine, which make it often a pretty clunky draw. Verse 2 is also one of your largest toolbox options, so a double-tap to 3 is a lot of commitment to the land engine, which could be decent in the scenarios where you do have a Strip Mine, but I don't see myself opting to take that line often. (Though I do see the spicy niche line of Azusa + Excavator -> tap Cradle -> Strip Cradle -> replay Cradle)

I think this is great tech for a meta with a lot of land destruction or maybe if you have a reason to tune toward extra land drops (like frequent Pyroclasms), but I don't think it's right for the meta I play in.

What other thoughts do you all have on Excavator?

If you have safekeeper sacking tapping cradle, sacking it for shroud, replaying it possible multiple times is pretty gross. I also think the games wasteland and strip mine are in your hand it's gonna b absurd, but the games you don't it's not as strong as traditional lines. I'm going to test it just to try it. I mean I Also play sylvan scrying and crop rotation so lots of openers have the potential to be that good

Oh I didn't even think about the sylvan safekeeper > skip 2 > Magus of the crucible + Azusa line with Cradle. That's a looot of mana

Ohthenoises You need to have some sort of untap in hand to be able to do the double tap.