Welcome to the Undercity

Commander / EDH* nagonjin

SCORE: 385 | 284 COMMENTS | 81666 VIEWS | IN 252 FOLDERS


Smubbles says... #3

First, I would like to say that this deck is amazing, and the theme only makes it so much more fun to play. While I won't suggest anything that would change the deck too much, I noticed that your deck wasn't exactly budget, so I thought I would suggest a few "Strictly Better" cards that may cost more, but just do their job so much better for the same mana cost. The first one would be Hero's Downfall instead of Murder. Same cost, same speed, just better as it can wipe out planeswalkers too. The second would be Watery Grave instead of the Dimir Guildgate. The Watery Grave retains the Dimir theme (Because it is a Dimir Hideout/Thing) and has more utility, being able to be used the turn it comes out in a pinch. That's probably not all of them but those are the two I noticed right away. The only other card I'm unsure of is the Vampire Hexmage. Maybe you should side that out and put in that Nihil Spellbomb you are trying to fit in. Anyway, awesome deck and thanks for reading!

April 6, 2015 9:30 p.m.

nagonjin says... #4

Thanks for those suggestions. They are ones that I've been wanting to make for a while now!

I have been waiting for Downfall to rotate out of standard and drop a couple bucks before I grab a copy or two. I also have been meaning to get Watery Grave, but I haven't made it to a place to trade for a while. Whenever I do, I have a couple things I'd like to trade for one, like a Flooded Strand that i have no use for at the moment.

Thanks for taking a look here! The next changes I make will probably be taking out either the Crab or the Vampire for the Spellbomb, and cutting something (Maybe Plunder?) for a boardwipe like Killing Wave or Black Sun's Zenith.

April 6, 2015 10:24 p.m.

Smubbles says... #6

Yeah, I can see why you want the Hexmage against The Mimeoplasm. I play against a guy who runs a Reaper King Scarecrow/Artifact deck, and likes to play a Door to Nothingness. I think I might side in a Gate to Phyrexia (Once I get a hold of one) for the Hexmage. It might be useful, especially if you have any zombie or wolf tokens lying around. That might help you against the Daretti guy too, but might attract a bit too much attention. I would say Black Sun's Zenith is a good side in for Memory Plunder if you know you are up against a token-heavy deck. Not a huge fan of Killing Wave, I think Black Sun is better suited. Also, if you need to keep the Hexmage but you need that Spellbomb, just drop the crab. The crab is useful enough in 1v1, but its mill ability is a bit more unreliable in Commander. The only way you can guarantee it goes off every turn is if you get your Dimir Aqueduct and keep returning it to your hand.

April 7, 2015 7:09 p.m.

nagonjin says... #8

Yeah, I think those are good suggestions. Memory Plunder was the top side-out option for the wipe spell.

I actually think there are situations in which either Killing Wave or BSZ would be effective. Sure, BSZ is nice against a load of 1/1's, since it would be cheap to take care of all of them and only marginally inhibit my own board.

It is less effective against a board full of pumped elementals that a Titania player might spit out, or Darien's Soldiers. It would be more cost effective to pay, say 3B for Wave (over 7BB for BSZ) and make them choose what to keep. It is an even more difficult choice late game when everyone is sub-20. Plus, If I have only 2 creatures on board, I may not want to cripple them with a BSZ.

So, for small tokens, I like BSZ. For bigger tokens, or with low life totals, I like Wave.

So far, the only reason that I haven't dropped the crab yet (aside from aesthetics - I mean, what a cute creature!) is that My deck is already lacking in low drop creatures that can block in the early game. The crab also gives me some possible triggers for Lazav in the earlier turns... So, it's a tough choice. This is why mill decks are so tight for space in EDH. I guess there's no harm in cutting him and trying my luck for a few games.Though, I will miss kicking a Rite on the crab and milling for 18 for each land.

April 7, 2015 7:29 p.m.

nagonjin says... #11

Thanks for looking! And thanks for the suggestion!

Mind Funeral is actually really bad in EDH -especially in Multiplayer. It is sorcery Speed, it only hits one person. If I cast it, then I am out a card with no major or repeatable effect, then I am at a card disadvantage against the other players.

Also, it never mills for a substantial amount. Best case scenario:

Everyone runs a low 37 lands.

Its the tenth turn (which is fairly late), so everyone's drawn at least 10 cards, plus the 7 starting. (99 cards-17=82)

You use the Mind funeral on a ramp player, who has ramped 4 additional lands. (82-4=78 cards in deck)

The player has not ever missed a land drop, miraculously, so they have 14 lands in play, from their total 37 (23 lands left in deck, out of 78 cards)

Proportion of lands remaining 78/23 = 3.39 (Number of cards milled per land revealed)

Multiply by 4 equals about 14 cards. Best case.

If I want this to be more effective, I would have yo use a Sadistic Sacrament to take out all the lands. All in all, not dependable or effective. In my opinion, this is not worth the slot in EDH, unless there are better ways of recurring or copying it.

EDIT: Fixed Math

April 10, 2015 2:05 p.m.

HalfLife4Mac says... #12

What about Decree of Pain for a possible board wipe? It's expensive sure, but the option to cycle to deal with low-level tokens or snag the card draws if you actually play it might be an option.

April 10, 2015 3:03 p.m.

nagonjin says... #13

That is something I've considered. Thanks!

The only downside is that it doesn't get around indestructible, which is a general vulnerability of this deck's current removal package.

April 10, 2015 3:12 p.m.

HalfLife4Mac says... #14

Well, what about Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief? Not technically a board wipe, but if it survives long enough, you can 0-toughness kill any indestructible threats while pumping your own. It doesn't fit the theme of the deck, but it's an option.

April 11, 2015 10:25 a.m.

MadStacks says... #15

I'm still rather inexperienced with EDH, but may I suggest Glimpse the Unthinkable? It's expensive money-wise, but helps give you options for when lazav hits the field.

I really like the deck, BTW. Roleplay + magic is an interesting concept, and lazav is always fun.

April 11, 2015 6:01 p.m.

nagonjin says... #16

Sorry, but Glimpseonly hits one player. I play primarily multiplayer. Plus, 10 cards out of a 100 card deck isn't worth a card slot, IMO. But thanks for taking a look!

April 11, 2015 6:25 p.m.

Megalomania says... #17

Gilded Drake works well with Mimic Vat. Hilariously well.

April 11, 2015 6:43 p.m.

nagonjin says... #18

Yeah, i think Thalakos Deceiver is a more budget version of the same effect, and the opponent doesn't keep a creature after the exchange. Great idea, though!

April 11, 2015 8:09 p.m.

Smubbles says... #19

Hi there again! So I got in some good matches with this deck and I had a couple of suggestions. While I originally wrote a long spiel, I accidentally refreshed the page and lost everything, so I'll make my suggestions brief.

Whip of Erebos: Not a great re-animator, you only get one of your creatures for a turn, cant use it to block, and it gets exiled. With a deck that's already short on creatures, every exile is a hard loss.

Control Magic: Lovely to use, but Treachery fits the theme better. Even though it costs one more, it pays for itself. Think about it.

Swiftfoot Boots: Lightning Greaves are almost strictly better. If I were you, I would update the deck on the site with cards you plan on getting, and not just the cards you have. Helps people get a better idea of what you are going for.

Minds Aglow: I can go on for hours on why that card isn't that great for this deck in particular. I did already, technically, but you will just have to take my word on it. Maybe you should bring the crab back instead of this thing.

Sadistic Sacrament: Makes someone you are playing with the exact opposite of a friend very quickly. This fact seems to go a little against the philosophy of the deck. Otherwise, its pretty useful.

Hinder: Was sad to see you removed this, saved me three times over the course of two games, once was from betrayal, you should have seen his face. Putting a card on the bottom of someone's library is more effective than putting it in their graveyard in a lot of occasions too.

Black Sun's Zenith: A fantastic side in, felt awesome to play, especially when my opponents were moving much faster than me, twas fun to watch their progress burn.

And that's about all I can think of right now. All in all it fared very well, and won one of my two games against much more competitive decks. The only major suggestion I can think of is that you may want to keep your extra graveyard hate on the sideboard. Use the couple minutes that people are given after commanders are revealed to side 'em in if someone might be using graveyard shenanigans, and keep more widely applicable cards in the main-board.

Keep up the good work and thanks for reading!

April 16, 2015 7:47 p.m.

nagonjin says... #20

Hey, Thanks for sharing your experience. A few comments:

Whip of Erebos was put in as a replacement to Crypt Incursion. I like it because the Lifelink is not irrelevant in many cases, and much of the time I use it to reanimate a Consuming Aberration or something that I only need for one turn. Sometimes this is better than using a Necromancy and giving someone a turn to prepare. Thus, the haste. I guess I just like it because of the reusability, the lifelink, and devotion.

Treachery is only "free". You still need 5 lands open, but I agree that late game it can be better. Until I buy it (If I decide I need it at $10), Control Magic works well enough for the cost. At 4, it keeps my curve low. If I get a chance to trade for one, I might consider upgrading, but the small difference in performance won't be worth the investment at the moment. Thanks for the reasoning though. I can become too attached to includes, and i stop looking at them critically.

Swiftfoot Boots is definitely not Strictly Worse. Hexproof vs Shroud can make a lot of difference if I want to target a creature with another equip, or with Thassa. Admittedly, this was more relevant when I had more targeted effects. However, paying 1 for that doesn't break the bank most of the time, and I could do better things with that $10 at the moment as a poor Graduate Student, ha.

I don't normally like Minds Aglow in this deck, but I often like it for the ability to draw out a few people at once (Since USZ is single target), and I can use it to mend slightly hurt feelings, and any cards drawn are that many fewer to mill. If I can find a similarly costed, repeatable source of draw, I would love that, obviously. It has been on the short list for a while, so I guess I could put Fact or Fiction back in..

Sacrament is kind of a dangerous card, I admit. Kicking it will hurt feelings, but If I know that a player has Eldrazi in the deck, I will not hesitate to use it at 3, and other players will defend me if they know I saved them preemptively from an Ulamog. Exiling three cards is better than Praetor's Grasp, IMO, even at BBB. Kicking is a last resort, or a 'punishment' if I have been wronged that game. Often, exiling 15 cards will cause a scoop, so it is sort of like a win condition. Also, it's useful with Grind mechanics in 1v1.

With current rules, Simply using Dissipate deals more effectively with threats than Hinder. Tuck was the only reason I had Hinder in here, to get rid of graveyard based Generals. Since that is no longer an issue, I can run something else in its place, Propaganda to help cull earlier threats and tokens.

There is a Future Changes section that details the most likely or pressing ones. There just aren't many cards I want to change at the moment. It plays fairly well to the current meta.

Again, thanks for playing in a different environment and sharing the feedback. I'd love to have more field-testing time. But.. my thesis constrains my time., and I'm grateful for what I do get =)

April 16, 2015 8:59 p.m.

Aroix says... #21

Just a few land base improvements could be:

Polluted Delta
Watery Grave
Vesuva

+1'd a long time ago, but congrats on 100+!

April 18, 2015 3:51 a.m.

avatonqp says... #22

+1 from me. I immidiately fell in love with that deck. Let me name some cards, i don't know if they all fit here but give them a try: Breaking, Glimpse the Unthinkable, Jace's Phantasm, Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver, Thought Scour, Nightveil Specter

April 19, 2015 1:05 p.m.

nagonjin says... #23

Thanks, Cerradura and avatonqp!

The lands (except for Vesuva) are actually planned additions, someday. I listed them in the Future Changes section of the deck description.

As for avatonqp's suggestions, unfortunately Breaking is not a legal card for this deck because Breaking has a red mana symbol in the cost. In any case, what I don't like about single target mill spells is that they don't work well in multiplayer games. They just don't have enough effect where there are 3-4 99 card decks to burn through, and it costs me valuable card advantage to mill 5-10. That's why I like things like Mesmeric Orb and Dreamborn Muse, for their repeated uses that hit everyone.

Ashiok is another interesting card. The problem with him in EDH is that (aside from being single target), his ability is sorcery speed, and I have to wait a full turn between his +2 and his -X. During that time, if i was lucky enough to exile a good creature, my opponents can attack him to prevent me from getting it. Plus, most creatures in EDH are huge (by Ashiok's standards), so it would take several +2 to nab one. That's why he was in a previous build, but ended up in the trade binder instead, haha.

Nightveil and Phantasm are okay flying chump blokers, but JP is a bit vanilla for EDH, and I have to pay the cost of cards I exile with Specter, so he's only good against decks with U or B. Kinda risky, but good flavor!

Still, thanks so much for contributing to my deck. Every suggestion helps. Even if I don't add the card, it makes me think through my reasoning for my cards, and whether something should be reconsidered.

April 19, 2015 3:44 p.m.

avatonqp says... #24

OK, i see your point now and i think i agree with you. What about Siren of the Silent Song then? Also, Soul Manipulation seems can find its place here too.

April 22, 2015 6:23 a.m.

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