Personally, I think Bribery is a blast. It is one way of keeping the Eldrazi in check in my meta, since people are more careful about running them at all once they get hit by a Bribery. The same goes for a number of other creatures like Praetors (5 mana Jin-Gitaxias? Yoink!), Blightsteels, Lord of Extinctions, Gods, Ionas, etc. Just having it in the deck is a good passive defense because one Homeward Path is an unreliable defense in this format. I will at least get a couple turns out of it, maybe an ETB effect, and a blocker/ wincon, ignoring standard removal. Plus, like you mentioned, it is a good thematic fit. I like keeping it here because it's fun, gets me a creature tutor directly to the battlefield, modulates my meta, and fits the theme. Plus, Since I paid so much for the card, I want to get my use out of it, haha. I don't really want to cut this, specifically, for a counter.

I do like the idea of Sudden Spoiling as a combat trick or removal option. I also think that couting on having both SS and BSZ simultaneously is a risky bet, so i might not include them solely because of their synergy. It's been on my radar for a while, and I'm weighing my options before considering it as an add.

Thanks for the comments!

Not to mention with Sudden Spoiling any end of turn buffs (like Craterhoof Behemoth) still count.

And seriously, people actually run the Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger and Urabrask the Hidden?

Who doesn't?!Jin sees play in some Nekusar builds, Vor is great in mono green, and Ur is a wonder in mono red. Well, was before Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient and Daretti, Scrap Savant

Mono red? you've lost me there :P

I can get Urabrask the Hidden but the other two are SOO bad. Risk versus reward. All they are is 8/10 mana kill spell removers.

I've seen Jhoira of the Ghitu decks run Jin Gitaxias to a pretty devastating effect but I still think Bribery is more on the fun than useful side. I'd rather use Corrupted Conscience over it. It fits the theme too.

Mono red EDH is hard. Easier now with Daretti and Kurkesh, but still bad

Yep, People definitely run the Praetors, at least at my local shop. Jin is a common reanimation target, Animar loves Vorinclex, but those are the two I've personally come up against.

But, seriously.. The reward is totally worth the risk. Jin puts all opponents in topdeck mode if he resolves. Vorinclex slows opponents down to a crawl and ramps you into the sky for even more big creatures. Elesh is a baller token buffer and a strong debuff for opponents. Sure, they eat a kill spell on occasion. Pretty much all creatures eat kill spells, so it's a moot point. Would a person rather play creatures that aren't even worth killing, or take the risk that one or two eat removal. They only get killed because they are threats.

Corrupted Conscience is often brought up, and I used to run it. I just like Bribery more, and the 5-drop slot is already pretty tight here. I guess Jace has left me wanting recently, though...

@Karns_Pyromancer, no need to hit suggest for every card you mention. Only for ones you really mean to suggest as adds. Thanks! =)

All creatures do eat kill spells yes, but I've personally found with those two praetors that suddenly a bunch of killspells come out of the woodwork. But I don't want to bog down the deck discussion with a wall of text about the praetors (unless you want to that is :P)

Well, if they do run them it only costs me 5, haha

I personally would only bother running them if i could cast for cheap, such as reanimating Jin in Mimeoplasm, or cheating Vorinclex with Animar/ Mayael. Then the removal stings much less. And if i am paying cheap costs for creatures, i would rather get something big for that investment and take the risk that removal may not hit them. Even sitting out for one turn gives a huge advantage. They demand an answer. I also wouldn't cast them unless I was sure that i at had a good chance they would hit and stick. I concede that they are exactly the targets that people save removal for. But that is for a good reason, i think.

Oh and look, I'm not saying they don't have a place in decks, as you said Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is right at home in a Mayael the Anima or Omnath, Locus of Mana deck. But my biggest problem with them is this idea that so many players get in their heads that they are the be-all-and-end-all, top of the power curve kind of thing. And they're really not.

You're absolutely right in that they both deserve an answer and I'm not denying that. But then again, so do Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre and Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. And both of those are far more devastating than the two praetors. Not to mention that both of the abilies are easy enough to play around and most decks SHOULD (I'm not going to say will) have an answer quickly ready.

And sure, its annoying to have to drop a Swords to Plowshares that I was saving for something else, but at the end of the day I'll deal.

Not to mention I really find their mana costs far too prohibitive to play. I get that people want to run Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger with Palinchron for infinite mana (as an example) but you're better off just running Deadeye Navigator. ANd for Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, he should be counted only as a control card, not card draw. Becasue the chances of actually resolving (or having him stick) are so low at 10 mana.

Of course. =). I just meant to say that for good reasons or not, some people I've played with run them and Bribery is a nice lesson for them.

I sort of feel like whether praetors should be run and whether Bribery is an effective way to capitalize on the fact that some people do are two different discussions. You would argue that they aren't good enough to justify their wide use, and i would agree with some of your reasons. At the same time, people do regardless of good reason. As you said, if 'so many players' want to run them, or any other big threat, it only makes my Bribery better and increases my odds of snagging something good. The thing about steal-your-stuff decks is that they get worse if opponents run worse (or synergy dependent) cards. Good stuff and ramp decks are my dream matchup with this deck.

So I agree with you in that Praetors are very expensive and involve a lot of risk, for less benefit (compared to the Eldrazi egends). What i disagreed with (and on largely subjective grounds) is that Bribery is an effective punishment for the choice to run them. When it comes to dealing with an y creature threat, in my colors it is either a kill spell or a steal spell. My feeling was that I might as well get some use out of it before someone kills it. It extends my creature count, has nice flavor, lets me look through their deck and get a feeling for other threats to prepare for, etc. Not bad for 5 mana.

And thats fair. I've just found (as far as the people I play with at least) that the decks that run the big scary creatures are usually the decks that, if one big threat is stolen they will drop like 6 more very quickly and swing into you for stealing their creature :P and at that point I'd rather stay out of that and just combo off. much cleaner for me.

Yeah, good plan. I don't run so many combos in this deck. The typical plan for my Lazav is to be low key until I'm one of the last two or three players and then pick people off with big unblockable stuff.

Hedron Crab is a rather nice one drop and it fit into the mill theme aswel! :)

An ugly combo exists with Gather Specimens + Reins of Power gets you all of an opponents creatures = win game.

JudgeExclamation: Reins of Power doesn't remove then return the creatures from play. It just changes ownership. Gather Specimens won't see anything enter that turn.

Ther is however a combo with Reins of Power followed by Day of the Dragons. You take control of their creatures, then exile them with Day of the Dragons to get a nice little flying 5/5 army. And if Day of the Dragons is removed, due to the wording on the card, you get your opponent's creatures.

number 110 yay

What about Sudden Spoiling ? Very useful card. You can dodge attacks, help Black Sun's Zenith, etc. I know it's against the "Each opponent" policy, but it's really good.

Sorry for the delay! Busy with term papers/ graduation and all that. Thanks to everyone for the talking points, and the votes.

@Kopojken, I LOVE Hedron Crab, and I had one slotted in here for the longest time. I had to take him out for more grave hate to take care of my local Darettis and Mimeos. I would love to put him back, but I can't seem to find a good spot. Maybe another pair of eyes can suggest something?

@JacksColdsweat We actually talked about Sudden Spoiling on May 7, if you recall. I believe the consensus was that it is really useful, but there is a want for space. I don't wan't to disrupt my removal package too much for something that only conditionally removes, even if it is Foglike.. I could see cutting Grisly Soectacle, but that card is too fun. I love the look on a person's face when their Xenagos-buffed Malignus is turned into a huge pile of cards.

have you considered adding in bitter ordeal?

For what? I don't run any board wipes or major sacrifice shenanigans, so i can't get more than one or two counts of gravestorm with it, especially since it is sorcery speed. Bitter Ordeal also cannot be used as a response to mill since a permanent has to leave the battlefield to trigger gravestorm (the difference between "permanents" and "permanent cards").

Ah i see I wasnt aware of that, I thought it would trigger with mill my bad :D

Seems like you have two Nemesis of Reason, both in Mill and Beater categorys. Nice deck though i like it