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Commander / EDH* nagonjin

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nagonjin says... #1

Glimpse will never be in this deck for several reasons, but mainly cost and relative effectiveness in multiplayer edh.

Hedron Crab is awesome for early game mill, and he was in for a while. But i find it difficult to make room for him in the current deck. He just doesn't do enough in the mid to late game to make me feel happy drawing him.

July 4, 2015 12:15 a.m.

You have Underworld Connections but you seem to lack Phyrexian Arena is this simply a case of price? Also, in terms of flavour, well.., sort of flavour, have you considered Silent-Blade Oni?

July 14, 2015 1:01 p.m.

nagonjin says... #3

What I don't like about Arena is that it doesn't give me a choice. Most of the time it's fine to draw, but i have so little lifegain to stabilize that I'm already on shaky ground.

As for Oni, i guess I'm just not a big fan of the ninjutsu cards. His regular cost is crazy, and I can't abuse his alt cost regularly enough to justify its inclusion. I'm sure he's got in other decks but i don't see the synergy here. I like Wrexial better than him, and that's the slot he'd take

July 14, 2015 2:40 p.m.

KnottyEwok says... #4

What about Jace, Memory Adept? His 0 ability is pretty strong even if it is in commander.

July 16, 2015 11:40 a.m.

KnottyEwok says... #5

Also Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver? She's a good distraction.

July 16, 2015 12:32 p.m.

nagonjin says... #6

Check my comment #2 above this why i cut Jace experimentally. He's too expensive and slow to draw, and he only mills one player at a time. His ult rarely matters, despite how hard it is to keep him alive that long.

As for Ashiok, he's terrible in multiplayer edh. He only hits one player, for 3/90-some cards, and even on the off chance i hit a creature worth resurrecting with him, he'll get attacked before i am able to because he telegraphs everything. Everyone knows what gets exiled, and how many loyalty counters i need to steal it. Plus his ultimate cripples me.

July 16, 2015 12:59 p.m.

KnottyEwok says... #7

That is a good explanation. How about Talent of the Telepath? It mills them and lets you cast 1 or 2 things from the cards it gets rid of.

July 17, 2015 4:32 p.m.

nagonjin says... #8

At that point I'd rather run Telemin Performance and at least have a creature to stick around. The risk of bombing with Talent is something I'm not quite comfortable with, and it's even more likely to bomb with its spell mastery condition, since i have to choose 2/7 cards, half of which could be creatures, land, enchantments, etc. Telemin also hoses creatureless.

July 17, 2015 5:16 p.m.

HydraOoze says... #9

Actually I would say Talent of the Telepath is better for a couple of reasons 1. No matter what your getting 7 cards unlike with Telemin Performance you have know idea how many 2. It cost 1 less mana 3. If you have Lazav out most likely in those 7 cards you'll hit a creature witch he can copy and you'll also have a chance to get 1-2 instant/sorcerys from them. It provides more value for your mana.

July 17, 2015 5:29 p.m.

AbruptDecaay says... #10

He's got a point Talent of the Telepath works very well with your comander. +1

July 17, 2015 11:31 p.m.

nagonjin says... #11

Ehhm, alright. I'll at least give it a shot whenever I acquire a copy. Thanks for the advice (and +1s), guys!

One thing, again, is that Talent hits one player for only seven cards. Almost certainly an act of early aggression, especially if I hit something good.
If I do add it, I don't know what to side out for it. Most of the other cards perform pretty well in this deck. Maybe Notion Thief or Mimic Vat. Though I like Vat for the silliness. Whispers of Madness crossed my mind, but I already have so few Dimir watermarks left in the deck. Hmm. I need more time.

July 18, 2015 12:15 a.m. Edited.

nagonjin says... #12

Anyone got suggestions for something less 'on theme' to cut for more draw power? I feel this is where I'm lacking the most.

July 28, 2015 12:26 a.m.

HydraOoze says... #13

In play testing I've never been a fan of Dreamborn Muse since it hits you as well that's what I would suggest cutting first. If your looking for some good draw Consecrated Sphinx although a little mana/$ expensive has actually preformed great in my deck because 2 cards per turn is a huge tempo swing in your favor, and left unanswered usually wins me the game.

July 28, 2015 12:44 a.m.

nagonjin says... #14

Yeah, I can see that. Milling myself usually isn't a huge issue, though. Dreamborn Muse is actually ont of the few viable multiplayer mill spells, and one of the few reliable ways of filling the table's graves if i can get her out.

Although, she is in the right area for cutting, being in the 3-4 CMC range, and costing XUU (the color intensity is what makes her more likely).

I don't actually have a C Sphinx in my collection, and having just bought a new EDH Deck with some pricey lands (A Slobad deck, with lands for Mimeoplasm), I'm not going to be buying more cards for a while. I'd like to keep my draw to something I have around the house, which would probably be Rhystic Study (though a bit annoying and unreliable), or Jace Memory Adept (Hard to keep alive), or Jace's Archivist.

Thanks for your advice. It is always timely, and always very reasonable. I just have an exceptionally hard time cutting cards because I am very attached to this deck. And I've already taken out so much of its mill power. =)

July 28, 2015 12:53 a.m.

HydraOoze says... #15

No problem, I have your deck bookmarked that's why I always commit so fast :).

July 28, 2015 12:57 a.m.

nagonjin says... #16

I'll cut Memory Erosion for Jace's Archivist... Even though it makes me sad to see the mill go, I know I need card draw more than I need players to mill 2-4 cards per turn... It may make a come back some day when I find something else underperforming. At least the Archivist is sort of a pseudo-miller, who can provide mild disruption and offer triggers for Lazav.

July 28, 2015 1:09 a.m.

jjarmst says... #17

The theme of this deck looks awesome and is what I'm finding most appealing since I have not actually played MTG for some time. I am seriously considering making this deck. Quick question though, I will also be playing as a teammate for a GW lifegain/token deck, in your opinion how ideal would that paring be - or what is the ideal teammate for this deck?

Thanks a lot.

August 14, 2015 4:19 p.m.

nagonjin says... #18

Good question.

As an opponent, tokens are a more difficult match-up for this deck, because the early game is creature-light. We also play fast and loose with our life totals, spending it on our mana base, deluge, card draw, etc.

As a partner, i think gw tokens would be okay. They have all the artifact and enchantment removal that we lack, and we have cheap boardwipes, spot removal, hand disruption, etc to let their army grow undisturbed. But we should time our wipes judiciously so we don't cripple our teammate. As a bonus, the more creatures they make will take some of the heat off of you for your mill/ steal tactics.

Some effects may not be appreciated. For example, all our symmetrical mill effects.

Probably the most optimal partner for this deck is something that gets equal or greater use of the graveyards that we keep full, but i would recommend that the partner deck have either green or white just to remove what we can't. I think Karador, Jarad, Mimeoplasm, maybe Trostani/Rhys would be decent candidates.

Thanks for the question!

August 14, 2015 4:57 p.m.

horatio13 says... #19

Lord of the Void is in your deck twice, under beater and steal, you also have this problem with other cards, that means that you have less cards than you think. but i really like your deck +1.

August 18, 2015 5:32 p.m.

SomeDipshit says... #20

... that means it's tagged in multiple categories, not that it is in the deck more than once

August 18, 2015 5:42 p.m.

nagonjin says... #21

Yep, the stats of the deck still say 'Cards in deck - 100'. Some cards just fill multiple roles. I designed it this way so that other players can better identify the purposes of some cards when they playtest it, so they can see how things relate to the theme, and so they can swap in/out certain cards to suit their own metas (e.g, maybe fewer 'Control' elements, or more 'mill').

If you like, you can sort it by many other parameters, such as price and (most commonly) card type.

August 18, 2015 7:04 p.m. Edited.

ajphisher says... #22

I like the deck, and I myself have had the Lazav deck with 20 dimir watermarks before. It can work rather well.

If youre looking for functional card draw. I prefer Overwhelming Intellect, as it counters things lazav actually cares about (creatures) and refills your hand back to full.

The other solid draw I think you would like is deep analysis. Although its not on theme, it works well in mill decks because its useful in hand and even milled out. Never a dead card.

August 20, 2015 5:49 p.m.

ajphisher says... #23

Magus of the Jar is nice too, usually comes down T5, which is fine since its something you want to pop the next turn with untapped mana anyway, being a creature its easy to recur, and its reanimator fuel as your opponents pitch their hands to synergize with mill/lazav strategy.

August 20, 2015 5:52 p.m.

nagonjin says... #24

Thanks a lot, ajphisher!

Your Dimir deck was a major inspiration to very early iterations of this deck.

I did used to run Deep Analysis, and i might like to reinclude it. I'll try to think of something that underperforms.

As far as the Magus, i used to have a more involved wheel package that i ended up cutting almost entirely (excepting Windfall, and recently readded Archivist). I'm not really into fully going pack to wheels because often refills instant speed removal and threats for my opponents.

Thanks!

August 20, 2015 9:03 p.m.

ajphisher says... #25

Yeah no worries! I've had the deck for awhile and I really should update that old list. I'm happy to see youre on the same page as me about mill-dedicated deck, instead of half-hearted UB goodstuff.dec.

Looking at the deck, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that aggro is pretty par for the course with your playgroup. Crawlspace, Propaganda, Darkness, Sudden Spoiling and the Strix all are defensive mechanisms.

Some things I feel like could be cut or are on consideration for your deck:

Reins of Power: I understand that the deck needs combat tricks and stealing adds a lot of utility and flavor to a semi-control deck, especially cute with altar of dementia. However, I dont see an offensive use that will advance the mill/beatdown plan without having the altar out to make the swap profitable for you. I'm interesting in hearing your opinion on it. I'd throw in Psychic Spiral as the deck replenish-er / finisher as this card might be single target but does an amazing amount of work.

Exile Effects: Dissipate, Lord of the Void, and Reality Shift are good and I understand the need for putting something away permanently but I feel like these overall dont fit on theme and can be replaced with other forms of control. P

Darkness: It seems like a dead card for any turn before 6-7, and although I do love me some fogs, I feel like you're better off running another rattlesnake card like No Mercy, which synergizes with Lazav. I don't run propaganda or no mercy because my meta is much less aggro, and I can get away with shenanigans quite easily without having to set up defenses.

As for other just general amazing cards in the deck:

Crypt Incursion: Can gain up to 50+ life and shuts down the reanimator deck your trying to outpace. In that same vein Ravenous Trap has shut people out for 0 mana, huge unexpected blowout.

Overwhelming Intellect can replace a kill-spell and refill your hand and also trigger Lazav. Its amazing how much people forget that instant speed hand refill for 5-7 cards on a counterspell really changes the boardstate.

I'm surprised you dont run Grinning Totem for a second bribery. It grabs any card. I'm also surprised you took out the best card in Dimir Memory Plunder. The abuse I get from memory plunder alone is just insanely good.

I also run 4 boardwipes to reset the board if need be: Damnation, All is Dust, Evacuation, and Overwhelming Forces. Im not sure if youre open to including boardwipes beyond rift (which is banned, alongside fast mana, in my meta. But I think any of those are great to have in hand. Especially since mill is always a late game strategy, having the ability to reset the board repeatedly will get you closer to setting up the win.

August 21, 2015 1:04 p.m.

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