What's the time in round? [Esper Control Primer]
Modern
SCORE: 67 | 88 COMMENTS | 9403 VIEWS | IN 21 FOLDERS
On Remand and Spell Snare:
Remand is quite poor in our bad matchups, but (similarly to Shadow of Doubt) it is a 2 mana cantrip that really wants to hit land drops. It's obviously great against blue decks and surprisingly not bad against combo in my experience. You can also get really cute with Remand. If your opponent has 2 cards in hand and they cast, say, Liliana of the Veil, you can cast Esper Charm (mind rot mode), hold priority, and Remand LoTV. Kinda fun.
Spell Snare is something that most people look at and just assume 4 (in my list) is too many. Spell Snare happens to be great against most of our bad matchups (especially Burn), which is why I opt for the full 4. It's also a crucial tempo play, which is why I advise against discard in the MB. I do end up siding 1 out against decks like Junk/Jund, but they have been very good to me thus far.
November 16, 2015 1:09 p.m.
Looks good! I like the "Don't suggest these things" section in particular. Lots of people assume cards that work for UWR/Grixis are what works for Esper, but it really isn't the case.
I've been thinking about making a primer for my list, but I'm unsure how to categorize things. I might have to steal some of your layout ;)
November 17, 2015 12:23 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #5
@tclaw12 I realized that I never responded to your above comment, so here goes:
Thanks! I thought I might have made the title of the "Don't Suggest These Things" section a little too harsh, but otherwise I think it's a great idea. I think the reason why it's necessary for this deck is that Esper Control isn't just control, it's creatureless, draw-go control. The deck requires different resources than Grixis or Jeskai because it's pretty much an entirely different deck/style.
Also, feel free to steal my primer/organization. I don't mind at all. (Not like I could stop you, but still. xD)
November 20, 2015 7:30 p.m.
Haha not a problem!
I actually just finished my primer if you want to check it out :)
November 20, 2015 9:39 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #7
@tclaw12 I've developed a new plan against Tron after discussing it with some peeps on mtgsalvation: Crumble to Dust and a Steam Vents in the sideboard. I've done some brief testing and it seems great. I've also upped my Remand count to 3x on account of the Tron matchup.
January 25, 2016 4:39 p.m.
I like it! Ideally Tron gets beat out by Affinity/Burn/Infect in this new meta, but I think a lot of people are going to be on Tron to start.
Also I appologize for being slow to respond and not going into much depth in my responses. I've been quite busy lately, and unfortunately MtG has been put on the backburner for the moment. I'm excited about solving the new meta though, so I'll try and be a little more involved here.
You posted about the number of Supreme Verdict a while back, any changes on that? I've been considering going up to 4 honestly, though I'll probably be going up to 3 when I get the chance to rework my list. Any thoughts?
January 25, 2016 8:42 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #9
@tclaw12 I've been on 3x Verdict since I began playing this deck because my style of control derives from RTR Esper Control, which relied heavily on Supreme Verdict. So, yeah, I'd still run 3x Verdicts main. xD
As to the 4th wrath effect, there is a bit of debate. I personally haven't had much trouble with the Eldrazi matchup despite what everyone says about it (I was testing a list with no Remands at the time, for what it's worth). I like a 4th wrath effect, but I prefer it to be a Wrath of God in the sideboard in the case that Thrun makes an appearance. If I wanted another mainboard wrath, I'd play 4 Verdict, no question (since Merfolk is finallly a real thing -- three in the top 4 of the most recent modern event, iirc).
Another card I've been considering, after seeing decks like Infect, Affinity, Merfolk, and Burn crop up lately, is Disfigure in the sideboard. It's a card I actually wanted to play before the Twin ban, and now I really want to find room for it, but I don't know what to cut.
The other problem is that I have this split of interests -- I want to run a sideboard against the general meta, but the likelihood is that my shop's meta won't change almost at all -- I was the only Twin player, and I've been on Esper for months anyways. Basically, my meta is still going to be full of BGx, Tron, and Burn like before. But, for the meta as a whole, I'd want a lot of good cards against Infect and Tron (the worst matchups for Esper in the meta as a whole) because Esper has a relatively good matchup against everything else. Also, I'm back on Tectonic Edge for my meta (mainly to tag manlands), but I'd want Ghost Quarter in an open/unknown meta.
January 25, 2016 11:33 p.m.
Makes sense. Ive been considering a 4th verdict because my meta, as I recall, was Merfolk, Infect, Burn, Hatebears, Esper Mentor, Jund, Twin, and a couple random decks. I found myself wanting a Verdict in basically every matchup. I've never seen Tron at my lgs which is great, so all the other matchups feel winnable. If Tron starts cropping up though, Ill have to consider your crumble package post-board :)
January 25, 2016 11:52 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #11
@tclaw12 You may have seen my summary on mtgsalvtion, but I'm linking you here in case you want to read my Louisville Open tournament report in the updates.
February 23, 2016 10:57 p.m.
I did see it. Congrats on the finish!
Batterskull in the main seems good against all the aggro strategies, epecially while Kolaghan's Command is seeing such little play.
Ghostly Prison is an interesting SB card. It seems sweet vs Eldrazi, Infect and Merfolk.
Anything you would change overall?
February 24, 2016 12:08 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #13
@tclaw12 I keep the mainboard up to date, so what you see on the page is what I'm running right now. =D
Only change since Louisville was -1 Gideon Jura --> +1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion (since Gideon always resolved to buy a turn or two before just dying to a lethal board anyways, Elspeth seemed like a better option)
Ghostly Prison was literally added a day before the Open per my friend's suggestion (we had been talking about how some UWr lists were boarding Ensnaring Bridge to beat Eldrazi, and how Esper can't really play that. I was like, "Well, what about Ghostly Prison?"). I tried it out and was impressed --- it came in super handy against Naya Chord (stops the Resto-Kiki combo, slows them down a LOT), Eldrazi (if it resolves t3, they're in bad shape), Zoo/Burn (can't pay for burn/creatures when attacking), and even other control decks (paying 7+ for a Colonnade swing or Snappy beat is just terrible in the mirror).
As for possible changes, I'd be looking to fit a few Runed Halos in for testing purposes. For now, though, this is the list that I'd run in an event.
February 24, 2016 12:21 a.m.
Yeah, I haven't been super impressed with Gideon Jura as of late. Much less BGx means he usually just buys a turn like you mentioned, though he is great after a wrath. Would you consider a second Batterskull in the main?
February 24, 2016 1:47 a.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #15
@tclaw12 I would certainly consider a second BSkull in the main -- in fact, that or a 4th Wrath were my main considerations. However, I've heard good things about Elspeth, Sun's Champion from a variety of sources, so I decided to try her out.
February 24, 2016 8:30 a.m.
Right on. I think for now I'm going to try a pair of batterskulls over the Gideons in my list. I'll also have to consider some Ghostly Prisons in the SB as well.
Thanks man :)
February 24, 2016 12:46 p.m.
Control in modern? Im in love!
Never heard of this deck till now. Guess i need to lurk at mtg salvation a bit :)
March 15, 2016 5:59 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #18
@griz024 Thanks! The deck is very rewarding if you put in the time to learn its intricacies.
March 15, 2016 7:07 p.m.
Hey bro! I too am playing an Esper Mid Control deck. You can check it out here. +1 from me!
June 18, 2016 4:14 p.m.
First of all, excellent primer! However, you do contradict yourself. In your list you're currently running 3 Snapcaster Mage, whereas your primer explicitly specifies to not run more than 2.
August 7, 2016 10:57 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #22
Nixin72 Thank you for pointing that out! I'll explain the difference here briefly before I update the primer:
Back when the Esper archetype played White Sun's Zenith, more Snappys weren't necessary because you had such a strong late game by casting more and more Zeniths as the game went on. The issue was that Zenith isn't a great early-game card. Enter Secure the Wastes. This is a mini-Zenith with comparable power-to mana ratios in a general sense, but it can be cast very early, which is welcome in a number of matchups. The issue is sacrificing the inevitability of Zenith's repeated use. Thus, in order to make up for that loss when casting earlier Secures, more Snappys are necessary to rebuy Secure in the late game; allowing it to act as both a stabilising tool and a finisher at the same time.
August 7, 2016 11:26 p.m.
I have been hoping to discover a control deck that can be good in my meta of Jund, Burn, UW control, Merfolk, Scapeshift, Tron, Affinity, and Abzan Collected Company Combo. Do you have an updated list for modern season and any suggestions for the above meta? The deck looks like it is a ton of fun to play. I also run into a lot of random aggro decks. Should I play more spell snare? Thanks!
December 7, 2016 3:21 p.m.
I am also wondering if Condescend could have a place in the counter suite in some small number and if Torrential Gearhulk has a place as an alternate win condition on the basis of his instant speed body and the ability to replay spells from the yard. Sorry to forget the card tag in the previous comment. Sideboarding for my meta seems a little overwhelming, especially since the deck has an obvious learning curve to start with due to its unique play-style. All help is greatly appreciated as I know you've been playing this deck for a long time. I don't have much experience with control, but I'd like to see it get more respect with all the aggro and combo around. Thanks for the primer and for playing the deck! Also, please shoot down Telling Time and Sphinx of Jwar Isle for me. I just need to hear it.
December 7, 2016 4:32 p.m.
TheAnnihilator says... #25
swansodr Thanks for looking! This actually is my current list. As for your meta, Esper has a lot of game there -- I'd play at least 3 Snares for sure since Affinity/BGx/Control/Burn all play a high density of 2 mana spells, some Runed Halos in the side for Scapeshift/Affinity/Burn/AbCo, prolly some Thoughtseizes and Surgicals in the side for the combo/control/Tron matchups, a few Leylines for Shift/BGx/Burn, and an Elspeth, Sun's Champion for the creature matchups. Don't trim any of the 4x Verdicts in the main (they're key to the Merfolk/Affinity/AbCo matchups). You prolly don't need both Condemns mainboard, so I'd cut one for another Snare. The sideboard as is is pretty much good to go for that meta too, though I'd swap the 3rd Surg for the Condemn we dropped from the main (which you want against Merfolk, Burn, and AbCo).
Condescend is ok, but very mana inefficient and bad on the draw. It's much better in UW Tron. If I were to play another counter in the main (other than the 3rd Snare) it would be Remand.
Gearhulk isn't bad, but it's super clunky in Esper -- it adds another 4+ mana card to the curve and there's a lot Gearhulk actually can't target: Knot, Secure, Rev, Verdict, Snappy, and Think Twice (I mean, I guess you COULD target Think Twice... Not sure why you would. xD).
As for Telling Time and Sphinx, Sphinx is way too slow and dies to our own Verdicts. Telling Time is actually a fine include, as it plays the draw-go game very well. It can find the Verdicts or sideboard bombs in fair matchups and it can filter out removal in unfair matchups. That said, I don't really see a need to make room for it.
TheAnnihilator says... #1
@Femme_Fatale Those are some excellent suggestions! I'll probably make room for an Engineered Explosives or two, and maybe Sun Droplet. (Perhaps Academy Ruins to stop Destructive Revelry from ruining my day? It's probably too cute.)
About Think Twice -- I prefer it to Serum Visions because it's not intended to be a cantrip. Think Twice is just raw card advantage, and if any deck has the time to be playing Think Twice, it's Esper. While the flashback cost on it can be cumbersome, I only ever use the flashback in the late game when my opponent is gassed out and I have excess mana or when I'm digging for lands in the early game. Either case, Think Twice is fine. The side of it is very appropriately costed in my experience. I usually hold up a 2-mana counter on t2 and eot Think Twice or cast both Think Twice and either Spell Snare or Path to Exile on T3, meaning my curve is atually pretty efficient.
Logic Knot -- Logic Knot is actually a better Mana Leak in my experience, because I can counter T2 Goryo's Vengeance or T7 Scapeshift (while representing other counters) or even a very late-game threat because of the delve ability. In fact, I can only remember one time in the last couple months of playing the deck that I looked at Logic Knot and realized I couldn't counter my opponent's spell -- and it was T2 without a fetchland (which is VERY uncommon for this list). In addition, LK can't be hit by Spell Snare.
I also had included Remand for a little while, but cut it for a Detention Sphere and a Go for the Throat. I may end up putting it back in, I'm not sure. The issue is that it never actually answers the threat and is poor vs. Boggles/Affinity/Burn.
Spell Snare -- While I definitely wouldn't advocate more than 2 Snares for, say, Control, in Esper the case is very different. For me, it's a one mana answer to almost every card I care about countering and I can cast it on the draw too. For example, if my opponent goes T2 Cranial Plating on the play is almost GG for me unless I have the Snare. Other things Snare hits -- 2-mana counters, Snapcaster Mage, Boros Charm, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Young Pyromancer, Tarmogoyf, Scavenging Ooze, Voice of Resurgence, Kor Spiritdancer, and Daybreak Coronet. In fact, it's so good here that I've considered a fourth, but I feel it would be too clunky.
Sorry for the long comment.
November 16, 2015 10:02 a.m.