swansodr I could also write up some sideboard plans (with the augmented list) for those matchups if you like.

That would be great! I am going to proxy up the list. All of that makes a lot of sense.

Sorry for the slow reply, and thanks for the sideboarding tips. I've been working a lot, and I have family in town. I see what you mean about the above cards, and I have read the first and last 30ish pages of your salvation primer (even before my first post here) so I have considered a lot of ideas on Esper Control. A lot of posters there are working on different brews though so I'm not sure how much more I can learn from that thread. I was also wondering if the deck would benefit from a slightly higher density of wincons (either an additional cipt land in Creeping Tar Pit, or a 2/1 split of Secure the Wastes and White Sun's Zenith, or just 3 total Secure the Wastes since it is good early and late). Is White Sun's Zenith too clunky for the list now or is the inevitability that it provides (and the 2/2 bodies) worth occasionally drawing it early? I also worry about decks that are able to recover after we verdict. Speaking of that, would I ever want a 5th board wipe in the sideboard? e.g. Wrath of God. I was also strongly considering Blessed Alliance for Burn, anything with Emrakul, and Infect. I don't see Dredge very often, but I'm wondering what I would do if I did. Sorry to be a control noob, but I would appreciate more insight into how I should play the deck in various match-ups. I just want to make sure that I understand the deck's ins and outs before I shell out for it only to get crushed.

The UW Control player was using Dragonlord Ojutai with Silumgar's Scorn. He seems to be a pretty good control player so I was also still thinking about the singleton Remand for the edge in counter wars. I went 3-1 at a different LGS's modern night with my Abzan Liege Rhino deck the other night and, oddly enough, ran into both Jeskai Control and Grixis Control. Those match-ups seem like they would be decent for you, but I have no experience playing a control deck against a control deck. I'm going to watch some videos.

Also, the decklist still doesn't reflect the 3rd Snapcaster Mage that you said you added in the July 25th 2016 update.

@swansodr I had updated it at the time, but I'm no longer playing a 3rd Snappy. Not that it's bad or anything, but I just didn't really find it necessary. I'm actually also considering switching back to Zenith too, which would be a reason to only play 2 Snappys.

I went deeper into the other primer and found the pages where you talk about how you play the deck and the comments on tactics and playing to "not lose." I also watched some videos. It looks like it's very easy to ride the struggle bus with lots of tough decisions, but it is clearly a capable tier 2 deck. Thanks for the insights.

Mindbreak Trap 1 of main or side at all ? I know it can be a very clunky "counterspell" but other than the obvious implications against Grapeshot, which is seeing play after Aether Revolt both in the cheerios and storm deck. It is really unique in that it exiles, and does not counter. Now maybe I'm overthinking it and valuing it higher than I should, but it can: Counter Emrakul, and they just get a fifteen mana time walk. Counter Abrupt Decay (not that this deck cares). Nab random affinity draws where they play multiple spells in a turn as a free counter. The exile clause can be just randomly good vs. a Sword of the Meek and Grixis decks. It can come up in a counter war.

Now I may be over valuing the card, and I think it's also better in a Remand deck, because sometimes you can just chain a couple Remands into a trap (or just one if they plan on playing two spells). The main value I see in it is the gotcha effect for unfair decks while also having a legitimate effect on graveyard strategies, thoughts ?

@kameenook You could definitely play a Trap in the side, as it's good against Storm. I personally prefer Summary Dismissal at this point (despite the mana cost) since it can be used to exile Tron's cast-trigger threats and their cast triggers too. Overall, though, I consider both cards to be too narrow, unfortunately. Neither is really worth it as a 1-of. It is a possibility tho.

I'm fairly new to Esper, and couldn't help but see a few things that I thought were off. Feel free to tell me I'm stupid:)

4 Verdict send like too much. Whenever I test a playset, I always draw them way to often . I feel like 3 is a good number for the deck.

WSZ is IMO worse than Secure the Wastes. Secure can be used as a stabilization tool, but WSZ is mostly a win condition.

I'd try a 3/3 Push/Path split.

Otherwise I like it. I would remove the Blessed Alliance, but IDK what to put in for it.

@AtomicEmpire Yo, welcome to Esper! I can certainly talk about those points:

Playing 3 Verdict is totally fine, but I prefer 4 because it hedges way better against Lingering Souls decks (like Abzan midrange/Death's Shadow, Esper Shadow/mirror), Eldrazi, Merfolk, and GW Creature decks. Against all of the creature/synergy decks, you need some kind of boardwipe to stabilize (and oftentimes multiple, hence why I'm playing the set), and against Edlrazi you can typically afford to tap out for Verdict since they're likely on a one-threat-at-a-time type of gameplan (or they're on Bant and commit multiple Heirarchs, Skyspawners, Reshapers, Drowner+tokens etc.). It's also worth noting that Verdict is the only uncounterable removal spell in the decks against the opponents with blue, and thus dodges Negate and more fringy-but-relevant options like Unified Will/Stubborn Denial.

Again, playing 2x Secure the Wastes over Zenith is also totally servicable (it's actually still being debated over on the MTGS forum literally right now), but Zenith has a few advantages over Secure that break the argument for me:

• Zenith isn't at all graveyard reliant. Part of the utility of Secure is playing it early and Snapping it back later, but it's a much weaker wincon if your opponent plays Rest in Peace or Grafdigger's Cage -- cards which Esper with Zenith can literally just ignore. I've won so many games without my graveyard I can't keep count.
• Zenith takes up 1 less mainboard slot than playing 2x Secure would, and Esper doesn't actually have a lot of free slots. By the way, if you play Secure I highly recommend you play 2.
• Zenith shuffles back in, meaning you literally have infinite shots at winning with it, within reasonable time. (For the same reason, you also can't deck, by the way. I've won multiple games against Abzan CoCo opponents at infinite life by simply casting Zenith every turn to make a physical roadblock while decking them.)
• Zenith is more resilient to hate such as Night of Souls' Betrayal and Jace, Architect of Thought, cards that do crop up from time to time.
• Zenith produces more power in the late game than Secure does, so a topdecked Zenith is usually far better.

The first 3 are my main reasons for playing Zenith, mainly the recasting part and dodging grave-hate part.

As for Path-v-Push split, I am solidly in favor of 4x Path/2x Push because Push can't effectively answer Kitchen Finks, Wurmcoil Engine, Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger, World Breaker, Voice of Resurgence, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, Gurmag Angler, Bloodghast, Prized Amalgam, Reality Smasher, Matter Reshaper etc. These types of cards pop up so often that there's no doubt in my mind that 4x Path is correct. Also, Kolaghan's Command is much less of a problem when you're exiling their creatures.

As for why I play Blessed Alliance instead of the 3rd Push, it's mainly for diversity -- BA can answer a few of the above-listed cards that Push can't (mainly the Eldrazi and delve threats), but it also serves as lifegain/creature removal against Burn to mitigate drawing the "wrong side" of the deck. If I could make room for a 2nd, I would. (In fact, I actually usually play 2x Snapcasters and 2x Blessed Alliance.)

Hmm. You may have tipped me on the WSZ vs Secure the Wastes idea. Do you mind taking a look at my list? Thanks a ton!

The Dark Side Of The Moon

Modern AtomicEmpire

SCORE: 1 | 1 VIEW

Shouldn't Surgical Extraction be in the board?

God, playing this deck is tilting me beyond belief, I can't believe it's possible to make so many mistakes in one game LOL!

Why do you run so much removal? And you mentioned that you usually run 2 Snaps and 2 Blessed Alliance instead of a 3/1. I feel like 3 is the optimal number.

Honestly, 4 Path, 3 Verdict, and at least 2 Fatal Push is fairly common. I run 2x Blessed Alliance because it helps the Burn and Eldrazi matchups for G1. I am on 3 Snaps now, and have been for a few weeks, but I forgot to change it. I removed the 4th Verdict.

@AtomicEmpire

So, you're saying that BA is not primarily there for removal.

Though it's taking up flex slots, it is removal. It's also lifegain, and sometimes both. But I could see changing it if something better comes along.

I'm considering modernizing my previously standard UW control deck and I've been currently drawing a lot of inspiration from various control decks that include blue and white. I think White Sun's Zenith is a good backup but I don't think I want to rely on it. So I'm including 3x Geist of Saint Traft and Thing in the Ice  ^Flip. Thing in the Ice serves moreso for protection than win condition but it might turn out. I'm also only running 1 Cryptic Command since I'm a poor college kid lol

However, with that said, what are your thoughts on Azorius Charm Instead of Blessed Alliance? I also might use Eternal Witness to help me reuse cards from grave because I can't afford Snapcaster Mage.

@Kalron Glad to see you're taking an interest! I do have a few thoughts for you, though. I'm not a fan of Geist in a format where Tarmogoyf-size creatures are the norm. The simple fact is this -- Geist will be blocked before it kills your opponent. Thing in the Ice  ^Flip isn't much better because it still dies to Path to Exile, Fatal Push, Abrupt Decay, Terminate, etc. Usually, in a traditional midrange/aggro deck, this wouldn't matter as much, but you're playing a long game and your only creature is weak to every commonly played removal spell (that would be stranded in your opponent's hand otherwise). It's a huge liability.

On the whole, I like Azorius Charm and would play it if I could. Alas, Blessed Alliance is simply better. It gains life (something that Charm doesn't usually do in a deck with this few creatures), which very much improves the Burn matchup, and it doesn't target the thing that it ends up killing, which is important against Eldrazi decks with Reality Smasher and other fringe areas like hexproof creatures (ie the Bogles deck) and anything that might be running cards like Blossoming Defense or Vines of Vastwood (ie. Monogreen Stompy and Infect). And that's not even mentioning the Escalate. Charm simply doesn't have those kinds of upsides.

As for the Eternal Witness thing, don't do it. You'd be splashing for a 3 mana, sorcery-speed card with GG in the cost. It's very questionable. Worth noting that Snapcaster has flash, which is the only reason why it's even playable here. I don't know how you could effectively replace Snappy, but Eternal Witness is NOT the answer. xD Honestly, I think I'd just play some Serum Visions instead of Snap if I had to.

@Kalron I'll take a look at your list.

Why no Thoughtseize? I know you mentioned on MTGS trying to beat Burn and Company more than Combo, but Thoughtseize is something that should be in every Esper SB. I may try Stroke, I'm liking it when I think about it.

tlhunter07 I don't necessarily think TS is that great in the matchups that it is typically brought in against. Tron can easily play through it and it Shocks you against UWR/Grixis (which furthers their best gameplans against us). It's okay with Surgical against random combo decks and it it's good against Storm, but it's a bad topdeck against Eldrazi and doesn't do enough against other decks (or actively damages us in the case of URx control decks). If I were to play that effect, it'd be on Vendilion Clique. That said, I think Negate does enough work that I don't need a discard effect.

I love this kind of deck and I built this with your deck in mind...just took black out and added green. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/17-08-17-bant-control/please tell me what you think.