Wheelin' and Dealin' (New Hands)

Commander / EDH* GoldenDiggle

SCORE: 8 | 21 COMMENTS | 1062 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


freezerboy says... #1

If you like making opponents discard you may as well add in a Geth's Grimoire. I've had lots of success with it off of Myojin of Night's Reach in my mono black deck, and I can only imagine the draw power from wheel effects.

November 11, 2016 1:33 a.m.

WombosCombos says... #2

Seems fun, I also played with the idea of building a wheel deck for a long time, but never would thought of doing it by combining it with cascade.

Also I like your take on including green, a color that I didn't see as usefull in a wheel deck up to day!

Seems I need to order another commander 2016 deck ;)

November 11, 2016 1:46 a.m.

joshuaizac says... #3

My thoughts on possible cuts;

1x Blood Tyrant ... cool in theory, cmc fits the cascade... mostly underwhelming win more card...

1x Wall of Blossoms ... bad early game filler

1x Chain of Vapor ... cool especially with all the wheels, but dangerous and can backfire... maybe just replace with Echoing Truth or just cut altogether.

1x Spine of Ish Sah ... without bounce or artifact recusion this is just overcosted removal.

1x Peregrine Drake ... cool combo piece but you're not playing combo, great with your bounce lands, but I'd still either replace it with Frantic Search if you want it for the 1 turn ramp, or just cut it.

1x Worm Harvest... I ran this in my sultai land shenanigans Mimeoplasm deck along side Splendid Reclamation.... pretty much got either both or neither every time I played it and was so nombo.... can make some great chumps but would still cut it.

1x Guiltfeeder ... can be a great card, usually better in theory than practice

1x Plasm Capture ... very cool but double deep in 2 colors in a 4 color deck seems harsh without a lantern... and may stall you a few turns...find alternate or cut ?

anyways there's a few thoughts at least... hope they help. love the decks direction and a lot of the card choices, and if you wanna give That's Just Not White a second set of eyes and tell me what you think it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

+1, gl & hf

November 11, 2016 3:41 a.m.

Errast says... #4

Removals (15):

So Academy Elite, Consuming Aberration, Blood Tyrant, and Guiltfeeder all fit into the category of huge creatures that don't really do anything except paint a big target on your back, seems like they could be easily replaced by more wheel effects, or by creatures who can abuse wheel effects, like Fate Unraveler.

Horizon Chimera, Wall of Blossoms, Spine of Ish Sah, All Suns' Dawn, and Peregrine Drake are all cards with very small effects. With no real way to abuse these effects through blink or the like, these cards end up in a more one and done role, of being used once and then being chump blockers for the rest of the game.

Army of the Damned, Ghastly Conscription, Worm Harvest, Selvala's Stampede, and Treacherous Terrain all seem to want different things from your deck (Tokens, Ramp, Landfall), and are likely diluting your focus on Wheelin' and Dealin'.

Chain of Vapor is just a pretty bad removal spell in general, and is more likely to hurt you than anything else.

Additions (10):

Teferi's Puzzle Box, Arjun, the Shifting Flame, Mindmoil, Jace's Archivist, and Wheel and Deal are all more wheels for the deck, and should probably be pretty high on your priorities list if that's what you're going for.

Lightning Greaves, and Swiftfoot Boots are good ways to protect your general in case of pesky removal spells, and make it so that he can attack immediately upon entering the battlefield.

Cyclonic Rift is simply a better Chain of Vapor, as there's no downside to throwing it out, whether for 2 mana, or 7.

Finally, Thought Vessel, because you've already got Reliquary Tower.

So that took a bit, sorry for taking up so much time and space. Hope you at least consider these changes, and I wish you the best with your deck.

November 12, 2016 7:29 p.m.

GoldenDiggle says... #5

freezerboy: I actually have a Golgari discard deck that makes use of Geth's Grimoire. In that deck its good, but in this deck I am afraid of decking myself. I may try proxying it in to give it a try though!

WombosCombos: I am actually really excited for a wheel deck too. I am a huge fan of Whispering Madness and the repeatable work it does. But honestly, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix was the one who shone through when I was playing the precon and trying to wheel. Tapping for 8 mana and casting half the hand I just drew felt really cool.

joshuaizac: I agree with all of these removals, most of them don't do anything for what I want the deck to do. However, I do want to try Worm Harvest before I remove it. I want to have options that I can cast when I inevitably don't have another wheel effect in hand.

Errast: I do want to keep Consuming Aberration, but I can see that it doesn't offer too much besides being big. Horizon Chimera is decent lifegain, and that's why I would want to keep it around, what would I replace it with? All Suns' Dawn helps me get a wheel back when I don't have one in hand and can help pull a few things back, but aside from that it's a dead draw. The rest of the removal I agree with, I don't make use of them effectively.

I should probably add the Puzzle Box, and if I end up running Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix the other options would be really good! I do need protection for my commander(s), and greaves are a good option.I should also take out my Reliquary Tower for something else, I don't need no max hand size.

Thank you all so much for your support! I have been conflicted on what I should cut. I left a comment on a deck you have!

November 13, 2016 6:58 p.m.

Nite_Owl12 says... #6

I know you like the cascade focus but for wheel deck Nekusar, the Mindrazer maybe more useful for competition

November 14, 2016 1:29 a.m.

freezerboy says... #7

It's always a "may" for Geth's Grimoire, so it's up to you if you want to draw 50 cards :)

November 14, 2016 2:31 a.m.

Winterblast says... #8

If you play so many wheel effects, adding a reanimator package to the deck feels like a must. Especially reanimator spells that can take creatures from the opponents too...Animate Dead, Reanimate, Necromancy, Dance of the Dead and others.

Memory Jar is a must in such a deck and Goblin Welder and Daretti, Scrap Savant would go along well with that...Mindslaver is also worth a try, since you give the opponents full hands often enough. What's better than using their full hands to ruin their own position in their own turns?

November 14, 2016 9:36 a.m.

Grind says... #9

cool deck, already looks like it could function very well.
if you want to include some hand denial, you could run Words of Waste which is also a discard engine for nath of the gilt leaf, megrim, etc.
depending on your budget; Leovold, Emissary of Trest in the 99 could be super mean with all your wheels.
i would think late game Rise of the Dark Realms would be a win con if you had haste enablers such as Fervor.
if you want to get more value out of all those cards you wheel away, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth can shuffle your graveyard back into your library.
Yawgmoth's Will can let you replay anything in your graveyard until eot.
finally you have access to blue, no harm in running Arcane Denial or Disdainful Stroke

November 15, 2016 2:36 p.m.

Grind says... #10

You could consider Umbral Mantle over Magewright's stone as it makes infinite colorless mana with kydele if you resolved a wheel effect this turn.

November 15, 2016 3:02 p.m.

RicketyEng says... #11

I second Geth's Grimoire.

I have an Arjun, the Shifting Flame deck which used to have milling as a possible path to victory. I had heard milling in EDH isn't the most effective because of the deck sizes, but wanted to try it anyway. Let me tell you that aside from that, people don't like being milled so it is likely to draw you hate. I recommend taking out Jace's Erasure. I took it out of my deck too but I kept Sphinx's Tutelage because it is just that potent.

Other chaotic, extra cast cards include Possibility Storm and Eye of the Storm. I have actually found that Arjun/Mindmoil are able to play around the possibility storm better than other decks can.

Another utility thing to go with Yidris (or any other wizards or other creatures) is Diviner's Wand. Equip your commander with it and start wheeling then swing for a one hit kill at an opponent.

November 16, 2016 3:25 p.m.

GoldenDiggle says... #12

I had this nice long response typed out then I hit backspace and went back a page. Shit.

Nite_Owl12: I know Nekusar does a better job, but Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix is more interesting to what I want to do.

freezerboy: I didn't notice the may! I'll take another look at Geth's Grimoire.

Winterblast: I definitely agree I need some reanimation and I think Memory Jar is great, but due to budget issues right now, I can't spend a whole lot on a deck. I agree if I run a few more artifacts some good recursion would be great.

Grind: I actually like the Words cycle, but they actively take power away from Kydele on top of me having to pay for them. Leovold is good for control, but he actively stops my opponents from triggering discard or draw effects. Kozilek and Rise of the Dark Realms are both great inclusions. I should get those. Arcane Denial looks really good, fills hands and gives my commander a mana tap. +1 Umbral Mantle has been added. I am considering adding Kruphix, God of Horizons, Gemstone Array, Pemmin's Aura, and even Galvanic Alchemist.

RicketyEng: The difference between Arjun's deck and this deck (assuming you had no wheels) is that my opponents are also drawing and discarding cards. Effectively, Jace's Erasure mills on top of the wheel effect, but I will try a few tests without it. I took out Possibility Storm because casting a wheel but getting the effect ~1/3 of the time (7 wheels/24 sorceries) isn't the best plan, but maybe I am being short sighted. Eye of the Storm is a must add for this deck, thanks! Diviner's Wand looks like pretty good.

Sorry that responses were short and took a while to arrive! I had to rewrite all of them, so it took me a while to remember.

November 16, 2016 10:31 p.m.

Nite_Owl12 says... #13

GoldenDiggle You may want to look into eldrazi spawn tokens if you want a ton of mana-especially Rapacious One

November 17, 2016 4:52 a.m.

I really like your mama base. It might seem insincere, but seriously, 4-color mana bases are the hardest to put together, and this one seems great.

November 28, 2016 8:27 p.m.

I would also recommend some dual lands that don't enter tapped, like fetch, shock, or pain lands.

November 28, 2016 8:29 p.m.

Megalomania says... #16

Cyclonic Rift - resets your opponents' boards. Devastating especially when followed up by a wheel effect.

Noxious Revival and Nature's Lore - some recursion is always good.

Time Spiral - wheel that allows you to untap up to six lands. why the hell not? lol

The deck looks a lot of fun so +1. Reminds me of a friend's Nekusar deck when we started playing Commander. Have you considered the possibility of adding infect? The colors support it and Vile Smasher seems like a fun creature to put infect on.

I have a Leovold deck that has a lot of pieces you might find interesting. You should check it out.

November 28, 2016 8:49 p.m.

GoldenDiggle says... #17

ObamaIsIlluminatiOhYeah: Would it surprise you if I told you that I have not changed my manabase form the precon? I thought that they did a good job and to be honest, I am (relatively) poor, so I do not have the cash for a high class mana base.

Megalomania: I have been looking for a Cyclonic Rift, it's a matter of time till I find one. I like Noxious Revival, 2 hp is nothing for an easy recursion effect. Did you mean to post Nature's Lore? I like the idea of Time Spiral, but can't bring myself to spend the $20 on it, or to reshuffle my opponents' graveyards without exiling them.

Thank you both for your helpful comments! I have left some on your decks as well!

November 28, 2016 10:15 p.m.

Ever think of Mana Reflection for additional ramp? Making your lands double themselves, causing double the tears XD

December 25, 2016 7:45 p.m.

GoldenDiggle says... #19

Madaraximundar: I actually hadn't! It's a bit out of budget right now, but I will definitely look into it! It fits in well with what I want to do!

December 25, 2016 8:47 p.m.

bushido_man96 says... #20

Glint-Horn Buccaneer and Brallin, Skyshark Rider  Flip could really get you some mileage in this deck. Cool build!

August 19, 2022 8:26 a.m.

GoldenDiggle says... #21

bushido_man96 Glint-Horn seems sweet, and so does the new sheoldred =]

August 20, 2022 2:36 a.m.

Please login to comment