irishmoosetard this deck has a revision 10 underway, but in the past it used to be sorcery with rabid bite or planes walker. Currently I am main boarding four tormenting voices because they are amazing, but yes, Scourgewolf gets delirium. Tormenting voices is on the current sideboard, but when I main board them like I am in the current unreleased Revision 10 (but as seen on the Screw Bant Update) Scourgewolf gets delirium every game he comes out.

how do you expect to come back after languish?

does Kozilek's Return trigger Silverfur?

irishmoosetard I've got two howlpack resurgences and 11 pump instants. Who says Languish is going to devastate me?

I outpump lightning axes on a regular basis. Turn three, Howlpack resurgence at the end of their turn. Turn four, 3/3 Silverfur partisan with a green open. Their turn, lightning axe targeting my dude. Make a wolf. Might of the masses. Make a wolf. Silverfur is a 6/6 and survives. Like then turn five I can summon Zada with a green open and I usually can find a might of the masses or another pump spell. Some silly 2/2 tokens might die, but they'll have wasted a languish.

The other thing is I draw through my deck faster because of the draw spells (expedite and tormenting voices), because of evolving wilds I have less cards in my deck to go through, and because of Duskwatch Recruiter I can go fetch creatures.

Kozilek's return does not trigger Silverfur because it doesn't target.

I am a big fan of this deck and of your ideas Rasanck. Been following this thread for a while and there are a few things I would like to add to my difficulties with running this deck in a competitive scene.

The shop I play at averages around 25-30 players and we can play up to 6 rounds.

The meta (as probably can be seen in a lot of other places) mostly consists of black and white. I think some of the dangers from white such as Declaration in Stone become obvious. But I've actually found it much harder to combat things that are becoming pretty consistent:

Duress

Transgress the Mind

Infinite Obliteration (usually sideboarded) <---------- This hurts the most

Combo decks are incredibly fun to play, and what you have made sir is a gem in the rough. But it seems fragile and hard to maintain an advantage without the combo eventually firing or losing our pieces in a good hand to the sorceries listed above (though I have won games without ever comboing Zada and Silverfur). Do you think there is a consistent way to win without the combo?

Wolves are great, but it is hard to stand decent ground without pumps when facing the constant presence of Sylvan Advocate who starts out of kill range from our wolves and has vigilance so as never to present a crack back opportunity.

I've often used the pump spells to react to these situations as best I can to trade or come out on top with an exchange, but when I finally hit Zada, I have no spells to play.

Zada, Hedron Grinder himself is a huge target (I've been hit a few times by Obliteration and they call him without a second thought), and essentially makes him no less than a five drop just so that I can hope to fire a spell on him as soon as he lands. I rarely ever keep him in play if I play him turn four because of the heavy presence of removal. (i.e. Ultimate Price

Lastly, perhaps it is just me, but no matter how well I shuffle up with these numbers, I never seem to hit the lands I need when I need them. Or I just get plain starved and my spells per turn/land drops are so lackluster my opponent runs me over.

Any thoughts on these challenges?

stormsavant I haven't really ran into land problems more than any other deck has. I played a super slow game the other day where turn 13 I had 6 lands and my opponent had four lands. I would expect to have more lands than that, but I wasn't disappointed with my land count.

Take a look at my "SCREW BANT" update. They have a list on what I play against hard to play against decks, and my next revision I'm going to main board most of that.

For hard to play against Black removal decks, we're not playing blue so there's not really anything to be done against the remove a card from your hand/deck cards because we're not playing counter, however, I absolutely have something in there for black(and blue).

When Playing against removal decks, I usually try to play removal control and what ends up happening is my deck outdraws them so I'm left with card to play and they aren't, so then I play my cards and swing with creatures on the field and they run out of juice.

At my shop I've seen a lot of bant company (the pricks) and a lot of Red black vampires, and some human decks. Basically the aggro decks that might be able to compete against Bant Company.

Lightning Axe and Fiery Impulse shank Sylvan Advocate in a back yard.

Round Two I'd sideboard in Display of Dominance and have four of them in your deck to mess with black control (Again, Revision 10 is underway so it will get there). Those decks WILL run out of steam and they WILL lose if you play the sideboard I've got shown up with the screw bant update.

They can't get rid of everything, they won't have the draw power and they're going to run out of steam, and even more hilarious is you can sideboard out cards they focus on so they waste one looking for the cards you do have.

If you lose Zada you're left with Green Red Aggro wolves. Transgress the mind cannot effect 23 of your cards, and it can only effect up to most four of your cards that are 3 or greater.

Basically, modify the Screw Bant Update list for your shop and you should find Black White running out of steam and not being able to deal with your red burn while putting your creatures out.

I really like this deck and all the revisions. Before I had even looked at this, I had ordered all the cards for it bc I had seen the synergy between Zada and Silverfur and on top of that I just love playing aggro. I will be using something similar to this in FNM and I will let you know results. Awesome deck, great updates and yes screw Bant Company. I have a Bant company deck and it's boring as hell to pilot. +1 from me good sir!

Lostkause seriously seriously seriously run at least three tormenting voices. I was playing against a bant company deck I lost to about two revisions ago, and he suggested tormenting voices and it's worked wonderfully.

Before I ask you this, I know that one of the goals in this deck is probably to keep costs down (and it is wonderful).

But what would you think of using CoCo here?

Collected Company

Rasanck, would you main board tormenting voice? And if you did what would you take out? Or is it a better sideboard card?

stormsavant you need at least 24 creatures for CoCo to work like it should.

I think Tormenting Voice works well in the main board because of Scourge Wolf and of course the card draw. I know it's already been said but Cryptolith Rite seems so tempting.Cryptolith Rite + Village Messenger would be great if you started with the perfect hand to cast Zada, Hedron Grinder and Silverfur Partisan early and top decking Tormenting Voice or Expedite to draw your pump spells. But let's face it, this would happen once out of 15000 times so moving from that point I like revision 10. Has removal, just enough pump and creatures. I don't have Arlinn Kord  ^Flip so I might throw in another creature or another Howlpack Resurgence to fill Arlinns place. I can't wait to see what Eldritch Moon has in store for my wolven kind!

dont you feel like you are losing lots of card advantage playing 4 tormenting voice and 3 lightning axe? thats 7 cards that cause you to discard and I feel if you dont get enough draws off of expedite then you are putting yourself in a big hole. tormenting voice is basically a 2 for 2 so you are spending 2 mana just to get through more of your deck. i feel like that would be a waste in a deck that wants to go full aggro asap.

imhei getting rid of two cards (tormenting voice + an unwanted card that isn't doing anything) is not only not losing card advantage, it's gaining it. Not only do you get rid of the cards that aren't doing anything for you at the time, you're replacing them 1:1 with new ones. You're allowing yourself to get to the cards you want most and get rid of the cards you want least and that's supposedly bad? Tormenting voice is amazing.

And as far as lightning axe, I'm supposed to believe that getting rid of lightning axe and discard something that isn't doing anything for me at that moment to get of a huge threat like Avaycn at Instant speed is something that's bad for me?

Apparently with tormenting voice I'm supposed to believe that drawing cards by getting rid of the ones I can't get any benefit out of is 'slowing down my aggro' and 'losing card advantage' even though I'm replacing cards I don't want 1:1.

And if you're using it when you have a hand full of cards that will be very useful at that time that you want to play then you just are playing the card wrong. If you're using lightning axe on a vanilla 1/1 and discarding Zada when you have 20 life, then you're using it wrong. It's not hard to see how to correctly to use the cards and it's not hard to see they're very beneficial, so to answer your question, no, I don't think I'm 'losing card advantage' and I think the notion that I would be is ridiculous.

Bravo. It's an awesome deck!

Love this deck! I knew werewolves were viable! How do you get past Languish though? Might of the masses as defense?

I have two noob questions for you :P

1. If you target Zada with Arlinn Korda +1 does it count towards all your creatures ? Is her ability counted as sorcery ?

2. Kozileks returns not only deals dmg to the opponents creatures but my creatures as well ? When kozileks comes into play ?

Thanks :P deck. Sounds amazing I'm slowly buildingTowards it

Suhbruh her ability is counted as an ability trigger, so no it doesn't trigger Zada. Kozilek's return hits all creatures, including yours, but this is an anti-weenies card and even if you have one howlpack resurgence or you might of the masses your Zada, your creatures won't die from Kozilek's return.

Ahhhh gotcha !! Thanks for the input !! Really great deck I can't wait to play XD

Suhbruh i'm re-editing my choices real fast on revision 11 lol.

Aren't you gimping Timberpack Wolf if you don't use 4?

krunchyfrogg In theory. In practice i've been playing this deck for now going on two months and I've found by the time I get around to having drawn all four Timberpack wolves I can spend my mana ending the game playing Might of the Masses rather than playing an additional Timberpack wolf. That's why I'm comfortable going down to 3x Timberpack Wolves instead of 4.

I'll definitely trust you on that one.

But, being a numbers guy, I can't help but think you'd be better off either going to 4 (just to increase the chance of dropping two by turn 3), or dropping them from the deck (in that example, I'd add a Scourge Wolf, a Duskwatch Recruiter, and I guess another Howlpack Resurgence.

JMO. :)