And my mistake I thought you had javelineers in here. Still tho, I imagine in an optimal scenario turn 2 mimic followed by a turn 3 brawler could be 3 mana for a 4/3 and a life swing or dead creature.

I explain here why there isn't room for Madness cards, compared with the other removal in this deck.

I'm also always sceptical of magic-christmas land interactions such as "if these cards come out in exactly this order then this will happen".

I understand. I read through the reasons why, and it does make sense. The Key to the City does allow you to flash sorcery madness cards into play if you were unaware, but yes a lot of the removal you have is less conditional and as a result is more consistent. One thing I would like to point out is in regards to christmas land interactions. A lot of really good decks have great results with these interactions. Simic infect can kill on turn 2 a decent amount of the time with turn 3 happening most of the time turn 2 doesn't. I am no longer trying pushing for madness cards in your deck, you have what you like and it seems plenty effecient. This is more for anyone that might consider them. As it is in this version you toss a land or a different spell when you activate the key or drop the brawler. If someone else was playing madness cards worst case they would do the same, but also have an option to cast a madness spell instead. I wish you luck with your deck, i hope it preforms well for you.

Of course I understand how Key to the City works.

Are you aware that it is often not very useful until late game? By that time I want to destroy any Creature I choose. None of the Madness cards let me do that.

If you want to get the most from something like Fiery Temper then you are forced to wait until Turn 3 to play your Bloodrage Brawler.

You then lose the often huge advantage you have if it hits the ground on Turn 2.

Simic Infect is not a good example to bring up, as that is a Modern deck.

Different format, where magic-christmas land interactions are more likely to happen.

Are you aware I said that the point of the previous comment was for players considering madness cards? I mentioned the interaction with a discarding effect and madness because many players are unaware that madness allows non instant cards to be cast at instant speed. You have satiated my curiosity for the lack of madness and as I said I get it. I made very clear my comment was for players considering madness and you felt the need to explain your choices further. In a more recent standard example of christmas land that actually was very competitive: turn 1 Kessig Prowler  ^Flip turn 2 Voltaic Brawler swing 2 turn 3 Scythe Leopard lay a land Goblin Bushwhacker swing for 13. Now i realize that this wasnt the whole deck but red green energy did ok for its time and is all still standard legal. I am going to assume that since this typed we both think the other is speaking in a condescending tone. I was not and am not now, I will no longer comment on this deck. Good day

Hyperalgialysis other people's decks are not the forum to discuss just any card interactions that people feel like.

Those discussions should be started in the Standard forum.

I have no idea what tone you are typing in. I just know that what you are typing has nothing to do with this deck.

Hey! Glad to see you made an update to your Minotaurs! I'll really be looking to do the same once we see the rest of the spoilers.

1. Any particular reason for mainboard Grasp of Darkness over Fatal Push? I'm only asking because the 1-mana slot in this deck is pretty open and I didn't see a discussion about it, maybe I missed it though.

2. Thoughts on Claim / Fame? I don't see a discussion here about it. I think I kind of like it. In the hypothetical scenario where you have this and two Bloodrage Brawler in hand, you can discard one of the Brawlers when casting the other, then bring it back turn 3 and give it haste. At the very least, in the later portion of the game, you can tack on +2/+0 to a creature if you are top-decking.

Bano42 a lot of different cards could be used in this deck, depending on play style and local meta.

In my meta Grasp of Darkness tends to hit more stuff than Fatal Push.

I find that my first land is usually Smoldering Marsh, so I don't often get to play a 1 drop.

The stuff I want my 1 drops to hit usually aren't on the field until Turn 2: Heart of Kiran, Scrapheap Scrounger. Dread Wanderer is the exception, but I Side Magma Spray in for that.

Claim / Fame is certainly an interesting card, particularly for recovering from a board wipe.

As I've now explained quite a few times, my Non-Creature spells all remove threats in my local meta that, if left unchecked, run away with the game.

There simply isn't any room left for Claim / Fame, but I'm sure it could shine in other versions of this deck.

I may swap,it for another card if Control is still a thing this season.

Thanks for the explanation!

I kind of agree with your thoughts on Claim / Fame. I want to like the card a lot, but I understand your logic about not knowing where exactly it could fit in the deck.

I have one more question though, this time about your sideboard: Did you consider Abrade? I didn't see it mentioned in the Cards Considered. I think I want to add 2-3 copies to my sideboard as either additional creature removal or some Artifact removal, but I wanted to hear your thoughts on the card.

I feel somewhat apprehensive about having 3xHanweir Battlements in there when you want to consistently be able to cast Grasp of Darkness turn 2 or 3. And although I like Supernatural Stamina, I wouldn't rely on that as removal. I know I am beating a dead horse here, but Fatal Push would be better in most cases than that card and should at least deserve a SB slot for fast removal. I'm thinking all of the tier 1 decks mainly. And yes I am aware of your Magma Spray, but it won't get rid of Winding Constrictor or Heart of Kiran for one mana the way Fatal Push can, there is a reason this is now a modern staple, it's just so good. Otherwise I really like the deck, looks fun. +1

Also would love to hear why you didn't use Hazoret the Fervent or Merciless Javelineer as your hand dumping engines.

NVM I dunno why I skipped it, but I see your Pushes on your SB SILL ME!

goblinguiderevealpls didn't you say you were going to stop commenting a while ago?

Just got back from FNM and went 2-2. Control and mono red burn/aggro got me, but I only had 2 mimics in the deck so that might be why burn got me.

The games I won went really well and fast, and I see why the other minotaurs might slow this deck down a bit.

Plus, there was one game I played where I had enough removal to beat my opponent with just a metallic mimic. That was pretty funny and I think I almost lost a friend after that lol

I can't think of much red or black can do to stop control, so I guess it's screwed when paired with control decks.

Bano42 -4/-4 to a Creature, destroy a Creature, or Exile a Creature are all better outcomes than just dealing 3 damage to it.

The biggest Artifact threats at the moment in my local meta are Heart of Kiran and Scrapheap Scrounger.

Fatal Push, Grasp of Darkness, and Magma Spray take care of those much more effectively than Abrade, while also offering good options versus other Creatures.

Again, if you like the card, try playing with it.

It may suit your play style and local meta better than mine.

mack10k I've been playing a version of this deck for a season now and three Hanweir Battlements is just right.

If you only have two you rarely see them by the mid game, which is when you need them, and four messes up the coloured mana too much.

I am never colour screwed when I want to play Grasp of Darkness. The eight dual lands help with this.

The purpose of Supernatural Stamina is not to be a removal card.

I think of it like a Counter spell. If someone tries to kill one of my key Minotaurs, usually Neheb, the Worthy, that card is there to protect him.

It also allows me to attack more aggressively, as I know I can save one of my Creatures, or to pump a Creature for final damage.

This deck doesn't aim to "hand dump".

From my description:

"you don't want to get stupid about things and deliberately dump the cards in your hand unnecessarily"

Rhys_Fahey I think goblinguiderevealpls is now obsessed with me. It's happened before on TappedOut.

S/he will keep posting stuff and I'll keep deleting it.

It's sad to think that people don't have better things to do with their time.

Just ignore the posts and they'll be gone before you know it.

Most decks have a bad matchup. For this one it is Control.

Not much you can do but try to run them out of spells, I'm afraid.

I went 4-6-0 tonight, and ended up in the top half of the field.

I had two super bad draws against a Zombie deck. Drew nothing but land in the first game, and only three lands in the second game.

The other deck I lost against was Humans, that just outpaced me.

In Game 2 he also had a super lucky draw, getting two Archangel Avacyns  ^Flip in hand when I had him on the ropes.

I beat Spirits and Zombies.

Neheb, the Eternal would have made a huge difference, so I can't wait to add him to the deck.

It's the first time I have used Key to the City and I was ecstatic about how well it worked.

Metallic Mimic to the rescue! lol

I hope it helped with some 3 damage to the face, through Unlicensed Disintegration.

The other card that would have really helped me tonight was Hour of Glory, against the Humans.

They were all too big to be affected by Fatal Push and Magma Spray. One more piece of mid game removal would have let me get rid of Archangel Avacyn  ^Flip before her trigger resolved, meaning one less blocker on the field.

Every hand seemed to be good for my games but the burn was just too much for me, and every time I killed my opponent's Hazoret, they just played another.

And then theres control. No need to explain why I lost that

But I never had a mana flood or drought in any of the games I played. There was a game that didn't give me enough creatures though, which was slightly annoying.

But the deck is fun to use and very effective. Only question is, why isn't Bloodrage Brawler a 4 copy card? 2 mana for a powerful creature that will be buffed most of the time seems like a playset card, especially because it gets you closer to triggering an ability of one of the main cards in the deck.

I was thinking about your Control problems, Rhys_Fahey.

You could add to the deck so that with that, and Supernatural Stamina, you have one more card to try to help Minotaurs to stick.

In regards to Bloodrage Brawler all I can tell you is that three copies worked best in playtesting.

That was my other version of this deck, though. I might move it to four copies and see how that plays.

I'll remove a Minotaur Sureshot.

Was that just spoiled last night?I had no idea that existed

The main problem against control is the counterspells, so that won't help much there.

However it would have helped in my burn matchup, so maybe it can be sideboard after rotation for extra protection.

Just looked at the full card list for red and black and there doesn't seem to be any minotaur that would fit in here, so that sucks. All the new minotaurs aren't as good (for this deck) as the ones already in the deck

Rhys_Fahey yeah I was less than impressed with the new Minotaurs on offer, apart from Neheb, the Eternal.

One of them even seems like it's just a worse version of Minotaur Sureshot.

At least we now have a late game bomb, which is really what this deck was missing.

Hour of Glory is great for us, too.

All the cards have been spoiled, now.

Although Control can just Counter your spells you sort of have to run them out of THEIR spells, so the more stuff you play, the faster their hand empties.

True But a lot of the spells in your deck are kill spells, so unless you want to kill your own creatures, you can't really cast them until later when they have torrential gearhulk (or early game on thing in ice if the opponent gets one out)

Bontu's Last Reckoning looks like a decent boardwipe for sideboard against cat decks and token decks.

Only cards I'm really looking at in the HoD are the Nehebs and a Scarab God (for EDH)

And the game day promos

And I highly doubt Ixalan will have Minotaurs in it, so HoD was our last chance of getting better minotaurs and we only got 1, which is kinda stupid since eternals are meant to be better than normal creatures in every way, but there is only one that can be used well in this deck :/

Maybe you can replace Chandra with Bontu's Last Reckoning after rotation to still have the boardwipe in sideboard.

So what about Grisly Survivor? I understand it isn't any kind of "strictly better" card but would it really need much of a build around to change the rest of your card choices? Like why not run that instead of some of the 5 drop versions of Neheb? Making either of them a one-or-two of?