Wrath of the Ur-Dragon

Commander / EDH Aldazar

SCORE: 9 | 26 COMMENTS | 2822 VIEWS | IN 1 FOLDER


BroadScholar says... #1

Hey man, thanks for the input on my deck. I have a couple questions for you.

  1. How is Draco in this deck? I used to run Last Stand in mine but replaced it because my deck is so gate-heavy, I would never have enough basics to make it worth while. I was wondering if you've had this problem with Draco because I've considered adding him to my list.

  2. Do Worldgorger Dragon , Moonveil Dragon , and Furyborn Hellkite get playtime in your deck? I used to have some xRRR CMC cards in mine but found that I was having a hard time affording the triple Red. And with dragons like Ancient Hellkite and others with firebreathing, I wasn't able to pump them more than a couple times. I ask because I REALLY want Scourge of Valkas in my deck but I'm worried about not being able to use him because he's so mana-specific.

  3. Does using the Scion's ability and copying cards like Bladewing the Risen trigger the ETB ability? Or do you have to play him from your hand for it to trigger?

The deck looks awesome man! My only suggestion would be a Living Death . I have had so much fun with that card! +1!

October 29, 2013 12:30 p.m.

adventfaith says... #2

Maybe a Call to the Kindred ? Always a fun card, especially for this deck

October 29, 2013 12:40 p.m.

Aldazar says... #3

Hi! Thanks for the comments, guys!@musicmagicmarijuana:1- I've yet to have a problem with Draco being dead weight in-hand. I've never cast him turn 6 (I think earliest turn 8) -but I've also never had to pay an upkeep cost for him. Twice now I've ended up discarding him to give Spellbound Dragon a truly MASSIVE and TERRIFYING offensive boost, only to reanimate him a turn or three later (thanks, Bladewing the Risen /Yore-Tiller Nephilim ). Once I turned Scion into Spellbound for that effect (by the way, Scion of the Ur-Dragon doesn't deal commander damage while he's transformed, does he? -Was never sure of that) ...and he's just a plains awesome big creature to turn Scion into, especially defensively/when blocked. Also, I'm as of yet undecided as to whether I want to try to fit in a Prismatic Omen , mainly because of him.2- I've hemmed and hawed on that subject. It may be part of the reason that the 'completed' version/plan for this that I've linked to is so Red-Mana-heavy, and well over half of the lands in it have the potential to provide red mana. I've also yet to have a firebreathing effect work for me past 1 or 2 bonus damage with spare lands, and I've actually yet to, ever, in all of my playing/playtesting, actually draw Moonveil Dragon out of the deck. =( I thought I lost it, for a bit. I love Scourge of Valkas , and I'm trading for a foil ( _ ) --but I think the only reason I'm able to consistently trust to have the specific mana costs, is (luck, and-) because I'm putting so dang much into the mana-base of the deck, in fancy lands--and I'm like halfway there.3- I'm afraid I have bad news on that front. Scion of the Ur-Dragon places the card into the graveyard, and then alters himself into whatever Dragon it was, remaining on the battlefield. Enters-the-battlefield effects don't trigger upon transforming. =( ...Somebody tried to explain it to me in 'Transformers' terms, and it resulted in much confusion and Chaos. I retain many of my enters-the-battlefield effects (other than because I love them) -because of the amount of graveyard-revival that I have. I seems prudent to spare 2 mana to shove something into the graveyard at end-of-opponent's-turn, and then Torrent of Souls it up in 1st main-phase. --Thanks, and....Living Death ... ... ...I cannot believe I didn't think to put that in. You're a genius. One's been sitting in my binder for months now, and I almost traded it away on Sunday. Thank you, Sir!

@adventfaith:Thanks! I had the same thought of Call to the Kindred when I first started constructing this, but took it out since I only had about 10 dragons at the time, and because I was disappointed by the inability to use it when I had the mana for it on turn 4. It might well be a seriously dangerous option for this deck at this point. I'll certainly give it a try, and at least keep it sideboarded for shenanigans. ;)

Best wishes to you both!

October 30, 2013 7:27 a.m.

BroadScholar says... #4

Okay, I was pretty sure his ability didn't trigger ETB, but I second guessed myself when I started seeing scion decks run a lot of Scion decks running Broodmate Dragon . The guru at my LGS said that even a transformed Scion is still a general (as is Akroma, Angel of Fury while she's morphed) and therefore, combat damage dealt by him counts towards the 21. And I think I'm just going to up my red mana base if only to run a Scourge of Valkas when I get one! Thanks for the input and enjoy!

October 31, 2013 2:16 a.m.

Aldazar says... #5

That... is amazing. -and it makes the combos of Spellbound Dragon and Mana-Charged Dragon absolutely obscene in this context. I'd never even thought of a commander being played morphed... Thanks, and may your dragons treat you well!

October 31, 2013 2:53 a.m.

A friend of mine runs a deck like this. He usually goes straight to Numot, the Devastator to begin destroying lands to seal a 1v1 win. Debtors' Knell is great for pulling back the dragons. Malfegor can be a forced removal of sorts (Does not trigger when played with Ur though). He also plays Moltensteel Dragon and dumps life into it for damage from a commander, its a quick kill if needed. Good luck with your deck.

November 25, 2013 9:32 p.m.

Aldazar says... #7

Heh... my playgroup would hate me if I played land-destruction, and we usually play commander multiplayer anyways, but I have a copy of Numot to swap in if it feels necessary. ;) ...I was looking towards obtaining a Sheoldred, Whispering One as opposed to Debtors' Knell , to fill that slot, but I can see how that being an enchantment and harder to remove, and not providing a downside for opponents in a multiplayer game, could prove advantageous. I'll keep Malfegor in mind--removal of that sort is indeed useful--but it's hard for me to feel justified in chunking my hand into a single ability, since that takes a bunch of the fun out of it, for me. ...I had Moltensteel Dragon in here as a temp. before I obtained Mana-Charged Dragon , but took it out because in mainly multiplayer, and without seeing the use of it to chock up commander damage rather than just regular damage, it seemed less useful to me. That is indeed a worthy use, I'll try to fit it back in--Thanks! :)

November 26, 2013 5:52 a.m.

markbeloit says... #8

Patriarch's Bidding is another essential card for this. Prismatic Omen is something I've seen work well in other 5-color EDH decks, though not Scion necessarily, I know there was some discussion about that. Don't know if Coat of Arms or Door of Destinies do well with Scion, but maybe worth considering. Urza's Incubator is also worth a mention, though it may be expensive. As far as dragons are concerned I've always found Intet, the Dreamer to be fun, though I don't know if you'd want him in this. You should also look at the other Kamigawa dragons if you haven't, not just Kokusho. Also, Awakening Zone may help as mana acceleration.

December 30, 2013 11:19 p.m.

Aldazar says... #9

Thanks, markbeloit! I'd not heard of Patriarch's Bidding or Urza's Incubator before. Those will likely both be going in--especially Urza's Incubator . ...I had Prismatic Omen in for a bit--worked quite hard to get one, actually...but I took it out alongside Draco and a couple of 'Domain'-ability cards a while back--my mana-base was just slightly too imbalanced to justify it, though it may end up back in later. I took my Door of Destinies out, because Dragons are all so expensive I got impatient with it. Intet, the Dreamer , I completely agree, is a ton of fun, and I keep one on-hand for to make games more fun sideboarding in--but I took it out of the general deck because it didn't work well enough with Scion's ability, depending upon what it absorbed on ability. Awakening Zone I hadn't thought of putting in, but I feel like the mana provided being colorless in this high-needs deck would be too detrimental. ...also, I will certainly keep the other kamigawa-dragons, Yosei and Keiga, in mind. --Jugan's mana-cost is just too specific for this, unfortunately.

Thanks again!

January 1, 2014 9:11 p.m.

mowservision says... #10

Fortunately for you, Scion of the Ur-Dragon still retains his commander identity when copying another dragon.

909.3: Each deck has a legendary creature card designated as its commander. This designation is not a characteristic of the object represented by the card; rather, it is an attribute of the card itself. The card even retains its designation even when it changes zones. (Example: A commander that's been turned face down is still a commander. A commander that's copying another card is still a commander.)

I made my Scion of the Ur-Dragon a copy of Dragon Tyrant to kill with commander damage all the time.

January 11, 2014 10:46 p.m.

Aldazar says... #11

Thanks for showing me the specific rule. :) Good to have that confirmed.

There's actually a turn four win-con in this, in 1-v-1's, using Hellkite Overlord and Dragon Tyrant .

It goes: Turn 1: Land, Birds of Paradise . ... Turn 2: tap land for Sol Ring , tap Birds of Paradise and Sol Ring to cast Harrow , sacrificing the land. search and put into play two basic lands, finally play your land for the turn, tap all three lands for any of the mana-rocks (Chromatic Lantern , Darksteel Ingot , etc.), or for Kodama's Reach / Cultivate . ... ... Turn 3: Land, tap lands and Birds of Paradise to play Scion of the Ur-Dragon . Tap Sol Ring to pay for Scion of the Ur-Dragon 's ability, tutoring him into either Hellkite Overlord or Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund . Swing for 7/8 commander damage. ... ... ... Turn 4: Play Crucible of Fire , Tutor Scion into Dragon Tyrant , swing for Ouch. ...If somehow that wouldn't deliver enough directly to kill them, tutor up Nicol Bolas instead. Not many people can play without a hand.

This isn't too fun of a way to play, but it's over quickly, in time to start a new game, and it's improbable enough to draw the right set of cards, that if I do I'll go for it every time.

Have fun!

January 13, 2014 2:24 a.m.

chirz2792 says... #12

Have you thought about Feldon of the Third Path?

August 23, 2015 12:56 a.m.

sennybee says... #13

First, I would replace Dragon Tyrant for Bladewing the Risen. A card that costs 10 mana to bring out and then demands 4 mana every upkeep seems kind of annyoing. I would much rather use that 4 mana to put two dragons into the graveyard scion and hopefully bring them out using rise of the dark realms. Bladewing also lets you bring back a dragon once it enters the battlefield.

Second, I would sideboard Jace and replace with Nicol Bolas the planeswalker since Jace takes too long to get to his final ability and it would be much more convenient to simply use Dack Fayden who is a lower mana cost.

I would then replace Worldgorger Dragon for Dragonlord Atarka since it gives you the chance to do 5 free damage as you wish when it enters the battlefield as opposed to exililing everything else you control.

Finally, I would replace Hoard-Smelter Dragon for a Broodmate Dragon. I would have kept Hoard-Smelter if sacrificing an artifact meant direct damage, but it only gives a power boost which can easily be countered so I think Broodmate Dragon is a better choice since it allows to bring in another dragon token as it hits the battlefield.

August 23, 2015 3:02 a.m.

Aldazar says... #14

Thanks, chirz2792! That certain is a strong suggestion, and though I hadn't thought of that one, I have looked at angling more into stronger targeted recursion. That, being repeatable, is certainly an improvement over other options. However, I'm wary of putting too many of my eggs into one basket, so far as recursion, and all of my mass recursion fills it pretty well on its own, so I hesitate. Also, though it's not so logical a reason, I kind of want to keep the mass of the creatures in the deck as dragons, and in Dack's Duplicate's case, their combo pieces. It's a clone, anyhow. Dragons en masse and finesse is after all the intention, here. Birds of Paradise is kind of the exception to the rule.Thanks for the excellent suggestion, though!

August 23, 2015 4:08 a.m.

sennybee says... #15

This is an excellent deck. Definitely got my upvote there. My previous comment outlines some changes you could make to your deck. Those are changes that would really just suit my playstyle though, which is to not sacrifice much unless there is something to be gained from it, that being said, creatures like Dragon Tyrant you would never see me running since I feel as if it is just a waste of 4 mana that could be used to potentially change the game. However, I really like the feel of this deck and it was amazing fun to playtest it.

August 23, 2015 4:37 a.m.

Aldazar says... #16

Hi, sennybee! Thanks for the suggestions.

Unfortunately, I think you might be misunderstanding a part of how the deck is intended to play. Scion of the Ur-Dragon's primary ability, that of copying a dragon of his(my) choice from the deck, is the central utilitarian pillar of the deck. Ideally, every dragon that I include will be of situational usefulness to me, when pulled out with that ability. Unfortunately, :( activating this doesn't trigger enters-the-battlefield effects, as possessed by Dragonlord Atarka and Broodmate Dragon. Otherwise I'd be having even more trouble selecting the Dragons that I wanted to include. There are MANY with awesome battlefield entry triggers.

First suggestion: I really don't intend to ever actually cast Dragon Tyrant. It's a pain if he gets stuck in my hand, but that's why I include stuff like Scroll Rack and Jace, the Mind Sculptor so that I can put unwanted dragons back in the deck. What he's there for is a quick kill if needed. Scion of the Ur-Dragon, transformed into Dragon Tyrant for a paltry two mana, can utilize his lovely combo of Firebreathing and Double Strike to kill someone in a single turn via commander damage, if need be. It feels a little mean, so I don't do it much, but sometimes, that guy with the token army just has to die.You'll also find that I do in fact have Bladewing the Risen included. He's usually the first dragon that I have Scion dump into the grave, when I don't have something else needing doing. It always seems like that's the best place to have him, for Living Death shenanigans, and the like.

With respect, Jace, the Mind Sculptor is never really played for to utilize his ultimate. Honestly, in this deck I usually just draw free cards and brainstorm-drop back unwanted Dragons every turn until somebody kills him (usually happens quickly) --but the sheer card advantage that he offers, with utility if needed, is not something to take lightly. It's good enough that I do, as with Bladewing, utilize both Jace and Dack Fayden, and even if both hit the field, it never feels like too much. Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, I did actually have in here, and only recently removed. I loved utilizing him, but I too often seemed to draw two out of three of him, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, and Rise of the Dark Realms, and that's just too much weight in hand. I'm afraid there's only room for one Giant Dragon Planeswalker in this deck. :/

Since I can't often enough make use of Dragonlord Atarkas ETB trigger, that's out, but let me explain why I play Worldgorger Dragon --it's quite awesome, and it did take someone a while to convince me to play it.

Situation: Animate Dead in opening hand.Whenever I have Animate Dead, or a way to tutor it, I can attempt the following.Fetch up/find/play two lands that come into play untapped without shocking--one that taps for red, and one for blue. Play Scion of the Ur-Dragon. Pay the two, activate Scion, and drop Worldgorger Dragon into the graveyard. Cast Animate Dead targeting Worldgorger. He hits field, exiling Animate Dead, returning him to the grave, which in turn returns everything (including Animate Dead) to the field. The lands enter untapped, and I choose for Animate Dead to target Worldgorger, and in response tap my lands for hanging mana. Worldgorger exiles, falls into the grave. More mana. Rinse, Repeat, Recycle, infinitely until you've all the mana you want. You can use some with Scion in between triggers to toss more Dragons into the grave, too. To stop the cycle, target something else with Animate Dead when it hits field. You're left with infinite Mana. Do whatever you want. Usually: Activate Scion of the Ur-Dragon, searching up Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius. Pour all the mana you want into his direct-damage ability (1 Red, 1 Blue), drawing cards when you want. Kill everything.Fun, no? Just don't overuse it, or people hate you. :P

Lastly, same deal as Dragonlord Atarka, Broodmate Dragon is awesome, except in that I can't abuse his ability well enough, so I play Hoard-Smelter Dragon not so much for the pump side of his ability, as for his utility. If I leave the mana open, I can tap 6 at an opponent's end step to have Scion transform into Hoard-Smelter Dragon and destroy whatever scary artifact just has to go, at the time.

I try to play this as a toolbox deck of sorts, with Scion of the Ur-Dragon sorting through to find the tools that he needs, be they to combo out on some unsuspecting pillowfort, or to prevent something else from becoming quite too scary. What with all the new dragons we have to choose from, it's quite a selection!You've made me think that it might be a good idea to write up a key of sorts, of the different dragons included, and the best ways I know to utilize them. Some do get wonky, at that. Odd, to be using the Wise and Powerful Guild Leader Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius for a sort of drop-Cannon, isn't it?

Sorry for the essay, and thanks, both for the commentary and for the +1!

August 23, 2015 4:46 a.m. Edited.

sennybee says... #17

To be honest, when I saw Rise of the Dark realms in there and thought about Scion's 2 mana ability, my mind just thought "sac as many dragons as possible and bring them all out with rise of the dark realms" so that I could spam abilities when the time came.

I guess you are right about Dragon Tyrant but it does seem annoying if it manages to sneak into your hand before Scion comes out, although you could use Dack Fayden to dispose of it, but then it makes it a problem to use rise from the dark realms, since you don't want to pay an extra four mana every turn.

I never actually noticed that Hoard-Smelter Dragon can destroy ANY artifact, I was under the impression that you would have to sac your own artifacts.

Now that you mention Dragonlord Atarka's ETB ability being unable to trigger through Scion's ability, I was thinking you could replace it with DragonLord Kolaghan which gives creatures you control haste, meaning you could spend 2 mana on Kolaghan and then spend the rest on another big dragon and it would gain haste as well, which would actually kinda help solidify Dragon Tyrant's place a little bit since it would have haste, strike for 12 damage and then it can go to the grave.

August 23, 2015 5:06 a.m.

Aldazar says... #18

Heh... That is a scary way for things to go, when it works, but it can't really be relied on too heavily. Too much dumping and people start to hold up counterspells, just in case. Dragon Tyrant still may be cut, if I feel I can outdo his situational usefulness by way of something more versatile, but for now it's an awesome play at times. I've thought about Dragonlord Kolaghan. I got pretty frustrated that he didn't have more EDH-compatible abilities when he was spoiled. In the deck right now, Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund fulfills the duty you're talking about, but a secondary one could prove useful. I really just wish his other ability wasn't such a dud, here. ...I really still don't ever plan on casting Dragon Tyrant, though.

August 27, 2015 5:09 p.m. Edited.

Zer0w says... #19

LOVE your build! I love Scion. she is my favorite commander of all time! I have some suggestions for you.

Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund is Awesome... except his risk is TOO high. if you go off with a sweet mass reanimate and fill your field with fatties. then someone casts Clone or something like that they take all of your dragons. or even if they reanimate him from your yard you lose your commander. that sucks. Dragonlord Kolaghan is not as cool and his last ability will get you laughed at in EDH... but it does give all of your reanimated fatties haste to lands some ugly surprise kills.

Sylvan Library is probably the best card in the world with Scion. Why? you might ask. because you can shuffle your deck on command. so every turn you get the best of three cards with the option of drawing more then one (at a life cost) with that in mind Brainstorm is also a killer card to include. you said that you hate having Dragon Tyrant in you hand? well draw 3 cards aand then put him and another dragon on top of your library then shuffle them, or even cooler, turn scion into them off the bat! Dream Cache is also good because you can get rid of those useless dragons in your hand and put them on the bottom of your library without Scion on the board!

Ophidian Eye, I assume is for the killer combo with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind, right? well U2 is a lot when you have to combine it with Scion's activation cost. switch to Curiosity and Keen Sense that extra 2 mana will help a lot. also consider adding this very odd very obscure little card Credit Voucher it allows you to draw your whole deck and then draw it again doing about 160 damage that should end the game or at least kill most opponents and then wipe the board on that jerk faced life gain punk!

Scion's power is very mana hungry consider feeding that with mana ramp/mana fixing here are some of the best options for the deck.

Mirari's Wake Amazing!!!

Bloom Tender with scions out it is tap add WUBRG to your pool!

Coalition Relic the turn after you drop it it produces 2 mana

Cultivate

Explosive Vegetation

Farseek

Harrow

Sakura-Tribe Elder

Shard Convergence Sweet on a 5 color deck.

Skyshroud Claim

Sylvan Caryatid

Tempt with Discovery

if you add a lot of these you will need to have a little more green in your mana base

"Bring to Light" will be super sweet

I have lots of other ideas but I need to go. take a look at my build How to train yo-Ur-Dragon it only has 13 dragons but each one has a specific job and most of them kill an opponent or even totally end the game right out of the box. the rest of the deck is protect myself control the board and ramp myself to start hitting hard by turn 5 or 6. it is a strong deck take a look.

+1 from me on this build. "good on ya"

September 26, 2015 11:27 p.m.

Aldazar says... #20

Hi, Zer0w!Thanks for the commentary--spectacular ideas, and your deck is quite the fright!

I am approaching this deck in a somewhat different way from you, as first and foremost I want a dragon tribal deck. A creature with a response for every scenario. That's not quite possible in here, but it is pretty darn close. One issue is that some awesome answers the deck could contain are, just as you say, remarkably mana-intensive. I'd love to monstrous Stormbreath Dragon in response to enter the infinite, or phase out Mist Dragon in front of a board-wipe (still might find a place for that one). To the suggestions!

Karrthus.... I had considered adding Dragonlord Kolaghan just as a second universal haste effect, but I've not come up against a cloning of Karrthus before, and though I suppose I was aware of the threat, your point is excellent. If a card in your deck can nullify your own plan, it doesn't belong there, I once heard. Relevant that, here, I suppose. Besides, that gives me representation of every Tarkir Dragonlord, and Kolaghan makes a gorgeous foil!!! (Yes, I'm addicted).

Holy crud... You took me by surprise with Sylvan Library, and you are SO Very Right! It fits almost too perfectly! Unfortunately, I think that means I'm looking for another $100 foil for this thing. XD

Regarding Brainstorm and Dream Cache...I've thought about including their like, but I would just rather utilize permanents for my sort of hand-maintenance effects, a la Dack Fayden, Monastery Siege, Scroll Rack, Sensei's Divining Top, for their potential to be utilized more than once.

By my consideration, you're half-right regarding Ophidian Eye and the Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind combo. Use of Curiosity or Keen Sense, and inclusion of Credit Voucher gives the combo the Potential to straight-out win, in a way where the cost of Ophidian Eye wouldn't fit. However, that's not how I use the combo. If I've got Ophidian Eye in hand and Scion of the Ur-Dragon on the board, I can hold up mana for it, without having the threat be apparent, for to cast in response to the action of another, just for to kill them--with the added benefit of drawing half my deck, and killing pesky creatures if needed. 'oh, you're comboing off? Nope.' Besides, Ophidian Eye makes a gorgeous foil. :P ...Including Credit Voucher does strengthen the combo into a win con, but if drawn on its own, though not a complete dud, it's certainly not up-to-par for the deck.

I actually have little to no trouble with ramp or fixing at this point--especially with fixing, (sets of fetches and shocks seems to that) ...ramp can always be improved upon.

Mirari's Wake has been under consideration for around a year, and at this point it's just whether it's something I want to make a space for. I probably ought to, but I haven't found one yet, so it's still on hold.

I recognize how amazing Bloom Tender can be, and my excuse thus far has been of wanting to maintain the Dragon-Tribal theme, to which Birds of Paradise was the exception. However, BoP was excepted because it flies, and I had several earthquake effects in here to start with, so it might be time to let Birds OP fall to the distinction of ramp needing to provide two or more potential mana (or fixing in the case of Chromatic Lantern) in order to make the deck-list, and let the elf have the slot. I'd feel pretty bad cutting the bird, though, I think.

Coalition Relic was in the deck for the longest time, until I dropped it in favor of Crucible of Worlds when I got one last month. That was intended to be temporary, until I found a better cut, but one hasn't come up yet. The right action is likely to cut Channel the Suns in favor of it, to take the safer option. It does lose me the potential to drop my general turn one, but that was nothing more than a fun, gimmicky ghost of a chance, anyways.

Cultivate is actually in the deck, Explosive Vegetation for four mana provides the potential to ramp to seven, guaranteed six--at this point I'd rather include something for three to ramp to five with. That may be the wrong option, given 7's really what you want to drop Scion, but I think I'll maintain for now. ...Skyshroud Claim I'm not certain how to consider in comparison to Explosive Vegetation--it's probably slightly better in my deck considering shocks and Survival of the Fittest's green mana-intensity, but the consideration is the same.

Farseek, Harrow, Sakura-Tribe Elder, and Sylvan Caryatid all were cut by the wayside per providing only one potential additional mana apiece, though Farseek was a recent and difficult decision. Search for Tomorrow I find spectacular, but shared the same fate.

Shard Convergence and Tempt with Discovery are of course both spectacular 5-color-ramp spells, or technically fixing in the case of convergence, I suppose. I feel bad in saying that I probably would have included Tempt with Discovery by now, if not for the lack of a foil version to be had. I do, however, hesitate, for its necessity of numerous players, as well as dependence upon their selections, to be anything more than a Sylvan Scrying that drops the card for a higher cost. Additionally, opponents can search for utility lands, which could be dangerous. Shard Convergence seems just a bit unnecessary to me, as per the density of things to aid in hand-selection. It doesn't actively ramp us, but provides immense card advantage, limited to lands. I'll consider it if I find myself in land-lulls, though.

I'm glad someone else shared my thoughts on Bring to Light as well... I was able to track down a pack foil pulled in a midnight Prerelease across the country, to trade for, right off the bat? _

I already looked over your own deck, and found even more great ideas, but I'll leave commentary on them over on your field, at another time. Thanks again for the feedback!!!

September 29, 2015 4:45 p.m.

Zer0w says... #21

It is true that your deck and my deck are very different. you have like 30 dragons and I have 13, sooooo, that right there should tell you sum'n. hey have you ever thought about Bower Passage it'll make ALL of your creatures unblockable.

September 30, 2015 12:59 a.m.

sennybee says... #22

What about adding in an Akroma's memorial? Sure it costs 7 mana but EDH games don't usually end quickly so it would give you a great chance to attack uninterrupted.

You could also add in a Domri Rade. His final ability permanently gives your creatures haste, double strike, hexproof and trample making it very hard to defend against your dragons and the added hexproof will ensure that they don't die from removal. As for double strike, it allows you to turn Scion into one of the bigger dragons and just smash your opponent's out the window, they won't know what hit em.

September 30, 2015 3:13 a.m.

chirz2792 says... #23

Another card that's good in a deck like this that I forgot to mention before is Prismatic Omen.

September 30, 2015 4:53 p.m.

Zer0w says... #24

Clockwork Dragon? if you turn Scion into it it just dies! and it is not that good of a dragon to hard cast.

Rite of Replication combos with your Scourge of Valkas. if you kick it on Scourge it deals 180 damage to multiple targets.

Might of the Nephilim combos with Drag... what?!?!?!? you don't have Dragon Tyrant !?!?!?! he is the most punishing dragons of all. if you attack then let your opponent respond cast Might of the Nephilim for +10/+10 then turn Scion into Dragon Tyrant and they are most likley dead even if they blocked with a strong blocker 16/16 flying, trample, double strike dealing commander damage as a surprise!!! it is strong. I guess "Skittles" does the job too... but not if they block.

September 30, 2015 10:15 p.m.

Aldazar says... #25

I feel I should mention that this list a) isn't really accurate to the current state of the deck, as I'm operating from my phone of late whilst I fix the computer (waiting on parts), and that b) I change the list based upon where/who I'm playing with. I won't pull out land-destruction Numot against casual EDH players. Same goes for Dragon Tyrant. Getting slaughtered by a straight-up giant fire-breathing double-striking trampling Dragon may sound cool, but it gets old quick, and if I'm testing a new card, he's usually what I'll yank for the purpose. I know he works, and that ain't changing.

I've thought about Bower Passage, and have a copy for the purpose, but I've really never had numerous enemy blockers be an issue. Something that you need-it-when-you-need-it, and otherwise does very little, I'd rather have in a form more easily tutorable in the deck. For now, that one's sideboard for me.

I'm not sure that Akroma's Memorial would have enough of an effect to warrant it. My thought is, if I have enough Dragons on the field for its effect to be worth a card, I'm already in great shape--it's a win -more card in this deck. I love Akroma's Memorial, but moreso in a green or white deck with numerous creatures of smaller size or lesser effect. If anything makes it worth it here, it'd be the vigilance--vigilant Dragons is indeed a scary prospect at that. I may be being too quick to judge, at that. Just, considering the cut of Crucible of fire, improving existing Dragons doesn't seem like the best of plans. I will have to consider that one, though, I think.

My thoughts on Domri Rade are that it's useful less for its ultimate ability--he's unlikely ever to live as long as necessary for to use it--and more for its second ability. In a deck filled with giant Dragons, a fight effect is pretty good removal. I looked at him for this at a friend's suggestion, but didn't add him because I felt the first ability wouldn't do quite enough for me. With a higher concentration of effects like Sensei's Divining Top, Sylvan Library, and Mirri's Guile, or a higher concentration of creatures that I want to draw, I'd think him awesome, but he is still worth consideration as removal with perks, certainly.

Prismatic Omen I had in here for a time, but I find I don't need anymore, with this degree of utility to the mana-base. --fetches do work-- now, if more cards in the deck had domain effects, or otherwise cared about basic land types, it'd certainly be worth the slot. As it is, Chromatic Lantern, with a similar effect, and a mana dork to boot, though as an artifact a bit easier to remove, holds the floor that it would, I think.

Clockwork Dragon is my secret tech! ... Or was. It's carry-over from before the commander-tuck rules change, is what it is. I could kill off Scion of the Ur-Dragon in response to it being tucked into my library, or in response to an opponent gaining control of it, or other type of non-removal control. My thoughts lately have been to switch it to Mist Dragon, to help counter board-wipes, even though that's pretty mana-intensive. Perhaps keeping Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon in as a second regeneration effect and degradant blocker is a better choice. But yeah, Clockwork Dragon really doesn't deserve the slot it occupies, anymore.

I noticed Rite of Replication and Might of the Nephilim in looking over your list, Zer0w! As mana-intensive as Rite of Replication is, that looks just awesome, and I really want for it to work!!! I suppose it isn't a dead draw even without the mana to kick it, as a clone effect. --but I very much want to find a place for that. ...Might of the Nephilim reminds me of Civic Saber's effect, which a friend was convinced I should include. I certainly agree that Dragon Tyrant more than deserves his slot, but I kind of avoid KOing opponents too early. As a threat, Might of the Nephilim is excellent, but I wonder if it might not be worth letting Moltensteel Dragon have the slot instead. With him in the deck, the same two mana provides a pump as needed, at the cost of life--however much I need to use--regardless of whether I keep Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon in the list. The trade-off for that life is that I don't need any specific cards in hand, like Might of the Nephilim, in order to make it work. I think that's worth the pain, as it were.

Either way, I've got like 20 cards to consider for the main deck at this juncture. I'll try to update this list when I get the chance--it's in need of an overhaul, and an explanatory facelift. Thanks for the help and suggestions, all!!! They're much appreciated!

October 1, 2015 4:03 a.m.

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