4 Color CoCo-Vial Allies (69-68-4 match record)

Modern Salad_Thunder

SCORE: 56 | 62 COMMENTS | 11949 VIEWS | IN 27 FOLDERS


Salad_Thunder says... #1

Godhead_Initiated - It's the Soldier token from Unhinged, I use it for the Captain's Claws Kor Ally token. :-)

December 12, 2016 12:19 p.m.

DiscardDecard says... #2

Awesome tribal! Good to see you are having such great results as well!

Want to check out my deck? The Akroan Crusade!

February 26, 2017 12:53 a.m.

Nef says... #3

So Beastcaller Savant has finally intrigued me. I have written it off for most the time since it came out but I'm now tempted to try it. Also, has Ondu Cleric been fine in the mainboard? I'm just not sure if a 2 mana 1/1 slows your deck down at all during a match you needed to win faster. I also plan to try bushwhacker as I haven't yet, it seems it'll be helpful to have another Akoum Battlesinger like effect in the deck and having a haste guy is always nice.

March 1, 2017 12:03 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #4

Nef - I was really skeptical of Beastcaller Savant, but it has been growing on my. The hard part is similar to Kabira Evangel in that you mostly want it to be a helper card, so you're putting off anything big to a huge explosion on Turn 3 or 4 -- except it's not as explosive as Harabaz. The bonus on turn 2 is that it can either swing right away or can help put in a stranded 1 cmc. It's super on the odd # of land turns (or even land if you have a Kabira). It's also nice to get that extra swing off of CoCo if you have a Battlesinger on the field. I don't know if I'd go more than 2, since the games you have too many mana-makers and no meat are really painful.

I think Bushwhacker is disappointing if it's viewed as Akoum light because other things coming in don't trigger it. I love having two of them in the deck because it isn't horrible to have one come in on a CoCo or have one in hand you can't vial in because it's set at two - and so the benefits make up for it. I think more would end up feeling painful more often. It feels like both it and Beastcaller benefit from having the 2 Envoy in the deck that I didn't used to include.

I completely agree on the Ondu Cleric. If you're fighting a combo deck it's bad. Against an aggro deck though, it's competition is Oran Rief Suvivalist. It feels like the extra life (to hold on to a CoCo or hardcast of Akoum) outweighs the disadvantage. If the number of Eldrazi+Tron wasn't so high that I wanted the Fire Mantle mages in the board (to sub in for Evangel), I might have left them in the board for game one anyway.

March 1, 2017 2:07 p.m.

Nef says... #5

It shows how good battlesinger is when a meh version of it is still good. I do understand what you're saying about the cleric tho when I do my deck re work I'll probably try just 1. I agree on no more than 2 beastcaller. I like that he can hate and it is very good when paired with an adaptive automaton, blade singer or bushwhacker.

Do you ever feel like having 5 mana ramp cards is too much ? I feel I would run 2 harabaz and 2 beastcaller

March 1, 2017 2:17 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #6

Nef - Definitely agree on Akoum Battlesinger - every time I think about building a humans deck I look for a substitute... and can't find one. So it's almost single handedly saving me from getting a playset of Hierarchs. (Well, it and the $$$).

I played about a year with just the three Harabaz Druid and no Beastcaller Savant. Getting them out on turn two is huge if they can stick - they let you get either a coco or five-or-six CMC worth of allies on turn 3. With turn 1 vial, that could be game. And a lot of times it (and Aether Vial) will smooth out not hitting a land drop, and it's what lets me get away with only 19 lands.

While I picture the Druid as being part of the core of the deck, the Beastcaller Savant is out there competing against other cards to get in. Right now, the extra speed it gives (in conjunction with the Envoy and Bushwhacker) seems more useful than mainboard Paths or Natural State or the extra bulk of a Survivalist. I don't know if I'd like it as much without the corner cases it enables with Envoy and Bushwhacker.

There will be games where you'll regret drawing too many mana makers ... but I think that's the price to pay for some extra explosiveness. If the trade-off doesn't seem worth it I can totally see taking some out. I went a long time with 3 Survivalist + 2 Mirror Entity + 2 Path + 1 State instead of the 2 Ondu + 2 Beastcaller + 2 Bushwhacker + 2 Envoy ... and that worked well too.

March 1, 2017 9:14 p.m.

Naksu says... #7

Really like the deck, but have a few questions about your sideboard. Why Natural State instead of Nature's Claim ? I got a few different scenarios in mind, but mostly the fact that it can't touch any turn 0 Leylines is enough. Also why run both Relic and RiP ? I think running 3 RiP would be better, since it's a superior permanent for its role IMO. +1 though and nice tournament records!

March 5, 2017 5:44 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #8

Naksu - I used to have Nature's Claim back when Splinter Twin was around, and can totally see still running that. I hadn't been running into many 4 CMC artifacts/enchantments (Bridge, Orb, Cage, most of the affinity things are all under) and so saving the four life seemed worth it. I'm not sure I've seen a Leyline besides Sanctity played in our Meta, which one is being played against you?

For the graveyard hate, RiP certainly seems better than Relic to have on the board - but I like that Relic can come down on turn 1, and that it doesn't require any colored mana. Relic feels better if I'm getting the cards to make it a quick game, I had one go longer last tournament where I wish I'd had the RiP.

March 5, 2017 8:29 p.m.

Guardians says... #9

Hey there, I saw the list on Modern Monday. How do you feel about the Halimar Excavator+Return to the Ranks/Rally the Ancestors transformational sideboard plan? It looks pretty interesting to me. Whats your opinion?

Here's my excavator deck: Allies be a-millin

Also, both Expedition Envoys and a Beastcaller Savant seem like they should be Oran-Rief Survivalists. Gideon, Ally of Zendikar also seems pretty good, maybe for captain's claws?

April 4, 2017 noon

Salad_Thunder says... #10

Guardians - I've goldfished a full out version of the mill-deck a few times before, but not enough to get into it enough to convince myself it counts to 53 faster than the damage dealing counts to 20. I'll take a longer look and give my impression on your decks page, because it does sound cool. As far as using it in the sideboard, I'm not sure how happy the mana base would be making blue more central and also requiring two white in the sideboard -- and taking out the cards that seem good against some decks.

It was originally Survivalists along with Mirror Entity and some removal. The two Envoys, Savants, and Bushwhackers are to help speed it up for the recent meta. The Envoys and Savants give the Bushwhackers extra chances to surge. The Envoys also increase the chance of having a turn 1 play or turn 2 vial target, and the Savants can give an extra same turn attacker to take advantage of the triggers from battlesinger. I can certainly see taking them out.

The two strikes on Gideon are his 4CMC cost and needing WW to do it with the current mana base. The Captain's claws can come out for any two if I don't have a better target, or come out and equip for three, and the opposition typically doesn't have as much artifact removal as they do bolts and creatures. I'll give it a try goldfishing though and see how it feels.

April 5, 2017 2:12 a.m. Edited.

Ink-Treader Coco Allies, eh? +1

April 5, 2017 8:51 p.m.

TepigAggro says... #12

I clicked on this just because I think its very impressive that you have logged 100+ battles with this deck. Nice Job and this seems like a very unique and fun deck!

May 11, 2017 5:28 p.m.

JamestheJoo says... #13

Metallic Mimic have you given this card a consideration?

July 14, 2017 1:05 a.m.

WynkenBlynken says... #14

I love love love allies and this deck is amazing. I've been alternating between something very similar to this build and an abzan/hardened scales version and they're both so much fun to play with.

I do have a couple of questions, mostly matchup related - firstly, what's your opinion on Dusk / Dawn in the sideboard? I've found it to be useful vs other go-wide and tribal decks like merfolk/humans/elves etc.

Secondly - the last time I brought this deck to FNM I was doing very well until I got absolutely crushed by Lantern Control because I couldn't remove Ensnaring Bridge. Besides the obvious need for artifact removal in the board, do you have any pointers for this matchup? It feels like an especially bad one.

Your guide is amazing and it's been a huge help in learning to play allies. Thanks so much!

August 31, 2017 11:37 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #15

WynkenBlynken - Glad you've been enjoying allies and that my deck description has helped! Is The Allies Harden Their Scales your current +1/+1 build? Sometimes when the big red sweepers are everywhere I think about giving it another shot.

I haven't tried Dusk/Dawn yet. Getting up to five, and needing two white seems has probably stopped me from considering it. My favorite against merfolk is to just put in the third Ondu cleric and use lifegain to get out of reach (if there was more go-wide around the meta, I'd put a fourth one in the board too). With the shapeshifter to back them up, that's often better lifegain than even soul-sisters has.

I feel bad saying that my solution to lantern control is to play Elves (using Whiteboard Elves, but I need to try vizier combo) where the early damage, combined with Shaman of the Pack and a piece of timely removal from the sideboard can do it. Bridge is part of the reason I had to put Allies up during Eldrazi Winter. For allies, I've wondered about Tuktuk Scrapper before, but never tried it - the difference that one extra mana makes. If there's lots of affinity in your meta, maybe up the artifact sweepers(Fracturing Gust or maybe Creeping Corrosion); if there are some folks playing mill and dredge maybe try and stop them from decking you with Wheel of Sun and Moon - targeting yourself for mill and bridge, and them for dredge; and if there is a lot of shadow and maybe some with flyers, I sometimes put Hurricane or Squall Line in my elves to get a win if I'm ahead, or force a draw if I'm behind.

September 2, 2017 10 p.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #16

JamestheJoo - I think I tried some goldfishing with it, but don't remember why I didn't like it. It feels like it would be great in a hardened scales build. Now you have me wanting to try it again - maybe in place of the survivalists since I always sideboard them out first?

September 2, 2017 10:06 p.m.

WynkenBlynken says... #17

JamestheJoo - just to add on to what was said above - I can confirm that Metallic Mimic is absolutely insane with Hardened Scales. Freeblades and other +1/+1 counter allies get +4/+4 immediately upon entering. I run 2 copies currently and could see running a third if you want to.

Salad_Thunder - yes, that is my current scales build. I'm still fine-tuning some bits but it's performed extremely well at the FNMs that I've taken it to so far.

Also I definitely see what you're saying about Dusk / Dawn in this build particularly. Even the 4 mana for dusk is a lot for this deck and extra clerics plus some Eerie Interludes out of the board has probably had better success for me all things considered.

re: bridge - I'm kind of glad I didn't start playing seriously until this year. I've heard things about the eldrazi winter... I'm also working on vizier combo right now just because of decks like that. :P As far as artifact matchups go, I can see Tuktuk Scrapper as being a pretty decent alternate wincon actually. Lantern control and bridge don't shut off our ability to actually play creatures and barely remove any of them, so in the late game we can do something like scrapper -> CoCo or play a couple more allies in the same turn and that's game. It might have some value against affinity as well, enough to possibly warrant inclusion. That mana cost is so annoying though. 3cmc and it'd be an auto-include, but 4 is teetering on the edge of playable.

Thanks so much for your input!

September 4, 2017 11:46 a.m.

TepigAggro says... #18

Have you ever thought of putting Kalastria Healer in here? It basically serves as a 2 point life swing for EVERY ALLY that comes on the board, which can add up quick with a deck like urs. Also, getting black wouldnt be hard because of all the mana fixing u have in here.

September 17, 2017 10:45 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #19

TepigAggro It's tempting. The reason Ondu Cleric (and Halimar Excavator in Mill-Allies) get so explosive is because of the one per ally in play everytime one hits - but this isn't bad. The mana base always feels right on the edge at 4 colors, so I'd want to goldfish the heck out of it first. If only Hagra Diabolist and Cliffhaven Vampire were even one cheaper than their 5 and 4 CMC.

September 20, 2017 10:25 p.m. Edited.

mrlucky131313 says... #20

Ondu cleric is 4 of. Also 4 path to exile. I don't think you need 4 aether vials, 2 seems like enough.I also like thousand year elixir for Mana shenanigans. Hagra is a game ender or you could go the mill direction. Also a good battle trick is momentary blink. This card is really fun in allies.

October 1, 2017 7:35 p.m.

Enganeer says... #21

I'm currently making my own allies deck based off of this design, it's awesome! However, I just had a couple of questions I thought you could answer:

1: You're only running 19 lands, with 6 fetches and you're going for CoCo, but hitting CoCo on turn 4 is huge (I know you've got the Harabaz Druid to help you out, but damn that draws enemy fire in a hurry). Do you often get stranded without the mana to cast CoCo?

2: More of a general question, do you NEED a playset of Aether Vial. I'm going to run it in my deck, but I'm hesitant to put a full 4 in it cause whenever I put 4-of in a deck, I expect to draw 2 reasonably often. Drawing two makes me run out of gas faster. I guess with a lower land count it might be more important.

October 27, 2017 8:45 a.m.

Salad_Thunder says... #22

mrlucky131313 and Enganeer - It seems like Aether Vial is either a 4 of or 0 of in Modern. Of the first 100 decks listed in MTGTop8 using it, all 100 have exactly 4 (spanning Merfolk, Toolbox, Hatebear/Taxes, Spirits, Eldra-Blink, Copycat, Wisp, Allies, Druid, Slivers). Vial's biggest purpose seems to be coming turn 1 - so that on turn two you can get a 1 drop and 2 drop out (not losing any tempo) and then get two guys out or do shenanigans after that. If you have 4 you have a 40% chance of starting with one in your first 8. If you have 2, that drops to 22%. If the risk of getting too many later on seems to big, then I'd cut them and maybe think about what hardened scales gets you.

MrLucky1313 Turn three mana Shenanigans with no X spells seems bad. 4 Ondu cleric seems bad against a lot of the combo decks or if there are many board wipes around, and three (after boarding) with the three shapeshifters seems good. Four paths board leaves a lot of other gaffes doesn't it?

Enganeer 19 lands gets you 4 land drops in a row 39% of the time (on the play with no druid; 48% on the draw). Going to 20 raises it to 44% (53%). It feels like it would take quite a bit of goldfishing to notice the difference. I got a turn 3 kill the first night I ever played allies (without casting a coco) and keep trying to get another one. I can certainly understand someone putting more mana in. In general I like goldfishing out a bunch of hands (acting like there is no interference) and a bunch of hands acting like the opposition has mana and removal in hand right away to get a feel for how its going. I like allies because there's a lot of room to customize, and I'm interested to see what you end up with!

October 27, 2017 1:10 p.m.

Enganeer says... #23

Fair point, I guess it's a kind of mental thing too; I feel like I'm mana screwing myself whenever I drop a land from my deck when I'm running so few. I have another couple of questions/suggestions:

1: Million dollar question, what are your thoughts on Champion of the Parish. It's not an ally, so it doesn't benefit from Kabira Evangel nor Akoum Battlesinger (just to name the important ones) . Additionally, it's virtually dead if drawn later; HOWEVER! Almost every single creature in the deck is a human and honestly his replacement, Expedition Envoy, is such garbage. Literally his only saving grace being his creature type and the fact that they had mercy enough to give him 2 power.

2: Why only 3 Jwari Shapeshifter? I mean, I do the same, I'm personally worried about removal spells and lack of copiable creatures, but I was just wondering.

3: About Metallic Mimic, I haven't thoroughly tried it out, but I'm really not a fan from what I've seen. His ability means you want to get him out first, but the best ally creatures have abilities that want you casting them first so they can see more etb effects (ie: T2 Mimic, T3 Blademaster and Freeblade -> 2/1 that can act and a 4/4 and 2/3 without haste, but T2 Blademaster, T3 Mimic and Freeblade -> a 4/4 that can act an a 2/1 and 2/3 without haste). Basically, have you noticed this cutting into your aggro at all? That said, do the counters on non-counter allies make up for this minor downside?

October 27, 2017 7:10 p.m.

Enganeer says... #24

Oh, right. Another thing I wanted to ask. Do you really think it's best to run Collected Company and Aether Vial in a deck together? My accidental essay below elaborates on my thought process.

It started when I got into a heated discussion about this with a friend. I know CoCo in an allies deck is ridiculously powerful, I also know how incredible Vial can be. However, the Vial deck might benefit from more, vial-able, possibly hasty, creatures in place of four hefty 4-drops (I specifically started thinking about this whenever I think about dropping Harabaz Druid for Beastcaller Savant and realize that I can't cause it screws me when casting CoCo). You reminded me by saying that your T3 kill didn't involve CoCo (barring a god draw, it normally doesn't).

October 27, 2017 7:28 p.m.

jguy8675 says... #25

Have you ever tried running lead the stampede? I run two copies with 4 CoCo and 4 vials. I think it adds such much-needed draw power once you play out your hand. I have also been using heroic intervention in my sideboard and I think it adds some much-needed resilience against board wipes and removal. What are your thoughts on this?

November 13, 2017 11:09 p.m.

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