Pikobyte: List looks pretty good. I'm not a fan of the Ravnica bounce lands and I think these could be swapped for something better. I would also look at adding some more multi-land drop effects like Azusa, Lost but Seeking or Burgeoning.

You also have a lot of big ritual effects, but nothing really to sink them into other than Finale of Devastation. Given your commander's damage ability, Kessig Wolf Run could provide a good outlet for the list.

I get you on the bouncelands enpc, I can’t decide if I want to keep or cut them. Coming into play tapped isn’t nice, but the bounce is actually good for all wheels that draw as much cards as you had in your hand before. Also they allow some nice shenanigans with frantic search and underworld breach. I guess I’ll cut them as soon as they ruin me a game once.

I would like to add Azusa but the problem is what to cut for her. I don’t really need her but she would be nice to have. Burgeoning on the other hand is completely useless and I cutted it from the deck not too long ago. This deck really aims for winning the game the turn you start wheeling. So my opponents won’t drop any lands that trigger burgeoning at all when I go off. Early game it doesn’t do much too, with 33 lands I got an average of 2 in my starting hand. I play one, play burgeoning, play a land in my opponents turn and start my turn 2 with 2 lands in play but miss a landdrop then.

Kessig Wolf run was recently cut, but I might add it back and cut reliquary tower for it. I don’t really need another mana-sink here, I just sink it into more wheels and when I start to produce mana like crazy it’s usually game over anyways and there won’t even change a phase to empty the manapool anymore.

always a hard call on bounce lands. I both love and hate them, many good synergies out there with them but on the other hand strip mine.

As far as adding azusa goes I actually run her where you have parallel lives and dropped gamble for Song of Creation. Song of creation is abit of an all in for 4 mana , but damn does it bang when you get to cast a ritual and draw 2 cards

Strip mine isn’t an issue for me playing bounce lands floopthepig. In my meta are a lot lands like cradle, nykthos, coffers, academy ruins and whatnot. So bounce lands are pretty safe actually and if I can bait a strip mine on a bounce land I’ll laugh later when I play my cradle. Song of creation is seems decent but that triple colored mana and the discard scares me a bit. So far the deck is really performing great and I didn’t miss the extra card draw.

Great list! Really enjoy it. I have just a few thoughts and questions. For win cons, I feel like comet storm could have some real legs in this list. Especially with support from untappers like kiora, mana echoes etc. Because of the sheer amount of mana that gets produced, my instinct is to also include tooth and nail and Craterhoof, although I get ur point. For interruption and control I put in opposition. And I like orochi leaf caller for converting all that green mana into any color. Thanks for sharing and I’d love ur input on those additions.

Also, any reason to not include epic struggle?

Heya RustyMC and thx for your suggestions. I’m glad you enjoy the deck!

For your suggestions you seem to have the same ideas as I did. The deck has changed a lot after extensive testing and I played and cutted most of your suggestions. Comet storm is a nice example. It looks nice in theory when you draw it the right moment, but other cards finish the game much earlier. By the time I got 40 mana per opponent, other cards like beastmaster ascension, shared animosity or even goblin bombardment have already won the game. They also bring lesser risk when running into a counterspell as I don’t lose all my mana and can continue my turn if they’re countered. Also I don’t play mana echoes, the colored mana wasn’t needed and didn’t do much. Instead of adding cards to sink that mana into to make mana echoes work I just decided to cut it.

Craterhoof was in the Original list before too but I ended up cutting it aswell. If I draw it early the turn I combo off, it doesn’t do much. It just buffs a few tokens but doesn’t affect all tokens that come into play after it hits the field and that’s not enough to justify the 8 mana. Other cards like Seshiro, beastmaster ascension and shared animosity also buff everything that comes after them. I replaced craterhoof with Finale of devastation. It does the same job as a finisher but can be used to tutor creatures like purphoros if I draw it early and isn’t a dead card in that situation. Craterhoof just turned out to be a dead card in like 95% of the games here since I can’t save it in hand until he’s needed due to the nature of wheels. And if I don’t play a card 95% of the time it’s a solid cut.

Opposition and epic struggle are 2 cards I didn’t test, but I don’t think are good in this list. I can see them doing great work in other Xyris lists, but they’re too slow for my taste here. The deck aims for storming off the turn after Xyris hits the field and it does that quite consistently. Epic struggle would mean i have to wait another turn cycle to make it trigger which means it doesn’t do anything if i win right away that turn. I don’t see myself holding back that turn just to give my epic struggle the chance to trigger and my opponents the opportunity to play a wrath when I can finish the job now. Same is true for opportunity, it just doesn’t do much if my opponents don’t get to make another turn anyways. And using it to tap away their mana doesn’t help since they can tap the lands and float the mana, i would have to skip to combat and Second mainphase to make it disappear which would kill my own combat wincons.

Orochi leafcaller is a card I thought about, in like 100-120 games I’ve encountered like 3-4 situations where I had more green mana than I could spend. I’ll have a look on situations like that and if that happens more often I may add leafcaller to solve that. But so far I didn’t have any real issues to spend all the mana I create.

Great points. I’m totally going to take that into consideration for my own list. Just a thought on flash, since u have the barracuda, and could add alchemist refuge. It could be possible to then use ur wheels on other people’s turns, and or drop epic struggle on the players turn before urs for the win.

I use barracuda more like a one-sided Dosan the Falling Leaf honestly @RustyMC. Since I can’t play Grand Abolisher here it’s a nice way to protect my turn from counters and still being able to use counters on my opponents turns. The flash matters only in rare cases if I get barracuda our early to flash in Xyris at the end of my opponents turn. Alchemist refuge sadly has the downside of producing colorless only unless I have chromatic lantern or dryad in play.

How is the game play going? Played a few over the last couple of days. In my group people are holding counter spells at the ready. They don't want him to even enter the game. Makes we wonder about prowling serpopard. I've also been kicking around Defense of the Heart, Chord of Calling etc. to get certain creatures into play, like the Barricuda or Shusher, spellseeker, Purphorous. How are you addressing counter magic in your play group? I know we discussed Comet Storm as a no go for you, but its been a useful board clear for me. Almost every time I clear small creatures or commanders with it, if I don't have the win with it. Any thoughts on Muddle the Mixture, or other transmutes? Part of me wants to have those tutors to make sure I can arrange my win conditions. I've been trying either Mystic Remora, Sylvan Library, Sensei's diving top to do an initial "fix" of my starting hand. Late game they are fine, though not as important. You don't have all three. I think I see why, but it seems you would have to be more aggressive about your mulligans. Is that right? Thanks for working through these details. I'm enjoying Xyris quite a bit, but I wouldn't say its been as consistent as I want it to be, though I attribute that more to the pilot (me) than anything else.

My meta isn’t too heavy on counterspells @RustyMC. Most decks with blue run around 5-8 but there are no mono blue decks with like 20 or so. For the few that are around my own countermagic helps a bit as well as shusher or barracuda. Targeted removal is more of a problem in my meta than countermagic. Played remora and rhystic study in the deck before but cutted them because they didn’t do a lot for me. I like transmute in certain decks but didn’t include them here, I prefer the cheaper standard tutors that hit more targets. The deck runs pretty solid so far, can’t complain about that. In some cases Xyris gets countered or removed but the deck is fast enough to play him again and still being able to win. Also a removal or counter for Xyris means a counter less for important cards like earthcraft or purphoros, which is often in my favor. Thinking about adding more stuff to protect Xyris like Kira, Great Glass-Spinner but beside that I’m really happy with how it performs

Thanks for the perspective. Great points. I think the Kira, Great Glass-Spinner makes a lot of sense. Did you ever test the following cards: Second Harvest, Long-Term Plans (to prepare for a wheel), Personal Tutor (feels slow, but preparing for a wheel feels like a good idea)? Instant speed feels pretty good. When I have only two opponents (for whatever reason), trying to get that extra oomph is needed, and Second Harvest might fill that role.

Thought about second harvest and need to test that as soon as I find a card to cut. In general the Card is great but there are some points I don’t like about it. It’s only good if you draw it mid combo, if you got it in your opening hand it doesn’t do anything and if you draw it after like 1 wheel you could double your tokens but may end your turn there then if you don’t have mana for another wheel. If you draw it later it may be only a „win more“ type of card since you don’t really need the tokens anymore to win.

Long term plans is a card that looks great first but isn’t really here. Only A few of my wheels discard and draw. Most of them shuffle hand/grave into your library which makes long term plans really situational and only work if you’re willing to spend your attack to draw it with Xyris. That however limits my abilities to end the game that turn since combat isn’t an option anymore.

Personal tutor isn’t too bad, it’s just the sorcery speed that i don’t really like. It gives my opponents time to react and mill my top card, mystical tutors limits that window to react. If mill isn’t common in your meta you can totally play it. I mean it’s not cEDH and you could play whatever you want, but I don’t like cards that are dead cards in most cases and only do well in combination with a few other cards.

I hope that helps a bit @RustyMC

I'm working on my ramp package, and outside of land matters decks, I haven't really used exploration. How much work has it been doing for you?

I really like it. It’s great early and great later. With it you can make your regular land drop and save the extra drop for when you draw into a cradle. I used burgeoning before but exploration is flat out better with 33 only. You get the extra land on your turn and can use it. Burgeoning has technically more potential in a 4 player game but it’s unlikely to have 3 or more lands in your starting hand. You could play land, burgeoning, land on opponents turn but would prob miss a landdrop on your turn then. And when I start wheeling it might be better but since our goal is to end the game when we start wheeling it doesn’t do much there too. If you got an exploration I would totally play it, if not a mana dork should be fine in that slot too. You seem to be quite interested in Xyris. I could give you my discord, that makes answering questions easier @RustyMC

That would be awesome. Xyris is definitely my favorite deck right now (I also run Sisay and am building a landfall deck).

Latest considerations: Wrenn and 6 for acceleration and interaction; Narset for emptying hands; Oko for interaction; Siren stormtamer for protection; Garruk wildspeaker for ramp and untapping lands. Have you tested any? Will be testing today.

Wrenn and 6 don’t accelerate anything, narset is like the worst card for our deck since it ruins token production totally, oko and stormtamer are okish but not good enough to earn a spot and Garruk is just too expensive for ramp here. 4 mana ramp doesn’t help to play Xyris earlier @RustyMC. But have fun testing them

So I tried out the list below, just to experiment. It has more of a CEDH feel, with low CMC spells, more artifacts, and a Kinnan + elf-ball package. As expected, it was very aggressive. I had no problem with removal or mana. My group will not be comfortable with its speed, and I will probably stick with the Earthcraft + Lantern combination that you put together. Probably include exploration. Interactions that I thought were interesting: imperial recruiter finding kinnan, which meant I could activate the ability and find purphoros or other creatures. Finale of devastation became a pretty significant win con. I did like milling with Altar of the Brood. It really took away from their game plans. Turn one Altar is pretty brutal. As for going forward, I'm going to consider Kira, and fervor rather than anger, who I keep not being able to put or keep in my graveyard. Maybe the ogre, not sure yet. The Sensei's Top was pretty clutch for manipulating hands and taking advantage of commander damage card draw, so I might bring that in. Sylvan library was just generally good early on, but I don't see a need for mystic or rhystic. Deck was fun. Sheshiro has been good and I can see why Craterhoof isn't necessary. Gonna keep brewing. Heres the aggressive list: https://archidekt.com/decks/683693#Xyris,_CEDH-ish

Heya RustyMC!

That list you’ve tested looks pretty solid but has some points I don’t like about it. I would suggest to test my list too and maybe you can see some of my points. Imperial recruiter is nice with a kinnan package but I really don’t see the need honestly. I usually cast Xyris turn 3 and win the next turn, kinnan doesn’t help much with that and that’s why I didn’t want to include a package to make it work. I just didn’t see the need here to include it.

Altar of the brood is a card I played in the deck before but decided to cut. It only takes a few cards away from my opponent before I start my winning turn. While that can be helpful if you’re lucky and hit the right cards, it can also be harmful if you play against graveyard decks. It doesn’t do much in terms of winning since you reshuffle the graveyards into the libraries frequently and even without that you would have won long before you milled someone out.

I totally get your point on anger, it is a bit difficult to keep it in the grave. What makes it good imho is the fact that you don’t need to spend any mana for it and when it finally hits the grave you just swing for the win. Ogre battledriver on the other hand does cost 4 mana and also only gives haste to everything that comes into play after it. So if you got like 40 tokens before you play it, none of that tokens gains haste where anger would give haste to everything.

Senseis top is s card that doesn’t belong here imho and I don’t get your point about it helping with commander dmg draw. Why does it help to spend mana and put the top 3 cards in a specific order if you draw all 3 of them anyways?

Don’t get me wrong, the deck looks pretty solid but I think it could be much better with some changes. Some cards there don’t do anything for your gameplan and i think that 5 wheel effects is too low for what the deck wants to do. With only 5 your chances of drawing into another wheel are just too small, for that gameplan it should be like 12-14 wheels to get that consistency.

Thanks for the thorough response! I did try your decklist and it works great (Won with it on Wednesday game night). I'm just brewing and trying to see how different pieces work together. You are absolutely right that there were consistency issues for when I could go for the win. I also think the use of novel cards like Earthcraft really make the deck interesting, so I definitely want to go in that direction. Do you have any thoughts on concordant crossroads as the second haste effect? Also, great point on the milling issue! I should have realized. We do mix graveyards back into libraries quite often. When you say you are going for the win on turn 4, I have to admit, that doesn't happen for me often. I'd say its probably more often turn 6. Are you being super aggressive on your mulligans and then banking on the wheeling density? I could definitely try that. Thanks again for taking me through your process!

Concordant crossroads is a super sweet haste enabler here. I just don’t play it because I don’t have an extra copy for Xyris. Im not willing to buy a 100€ legends version now, commander legends is coming later this year and there are rumors that a crossroads reprint could happen. So I’ll wait and see if that will happen. If you have one I would 100% prefer that over anger, 1 mana safe haste beats the 0 mana but grave dependent version by far @RustyMC

I totally feel you on the $. So here is the list I'm jamming for the next few meetups. It has a pretty expansive Maybeboard. You'll see that its pretty similar to your list. My internal debate is almost always around mana ramp and tutoring. I feel like it could us a signet, maybe bloom tender. Consecrated Sphinx could easily go. Sylvan has been pretty clutch for early game "fixing" of my hand. Natural Order/chord of calling/tooth and nail seem like they could have a place, though not necessary. triumph of the hordes has been a little slow, so I'm not using it right now, but maybe I'm missing something. Kiora's follower is dope, and I am pretty happy to include them.

I play bloom tender, cutted consecrated Sphinx and also natural Order because it only tutors Green and has no Place without craterhoof @RustyMC