CyborgAeon, Ouphe Vandals doesn't hit triggered abilities.

CyborgAeon: You are correct, except I melded the SB and MB board so I would not clutter the page. Ravenous Slime gets swapped in and out based on whether or not I will be facing a hulk deck.

I would really like to hear about your test games, outside of myself I haven't actually had anybody say they've tried the deck. Something I am really eager to see, but I digress.

I tried Strip Mine / Wasteland , but at 31 lands, I barely make it to 4 lands before I start popping off by other means, so saccing a land really hurts my curve, since every land I get almost always needs to be used for mana.

Sea Gate Wreckage : I've always loved this card, but achieving hellbent on this deck usually means I have won, or the game is about to end. I've always loved cards that do something while nothing is happening, but my meta has removed these breather moments, so I never get value out of fun cards like this and Scrying Sheets . In all honesty though, I would run them if it wasn't for the cutthroat nature of my current meta.

Isolated Watchtower : This is something I might try, since it isn't as intrusive and I do have a Lord Windgrace deck running rampant in my pod right now. Thanks a lot for this one.

Brown Ouphe : Not a fan of the need for haste, so it feels like a weaker Caustic Caterpillar . However, Ouphe Vandals is a card I didn't even know existed. This one I will definitely test, since that's pretty sick. Thanks a lot for this one, I will be testing it. Also, please note it doesn't hit triggered, just activated, which is not bad though cause of scepter. (Time to wrack my brain looking for a slot)

As for the fetches, yes, it's for the shuffling and for Dryad Arbor , which is great in situations where I need to Skullclamp something, Natural Order / Eldritch Evolution , get more out of Regal Force / Gaea's Cradle / Great Oak Guardian . I am also aware that deck thinning is more or less a myth, but in a deck that runs 31 lands, knowing one will eliminate the possibility of drawing another is a blessing in a combo deck (my 2 cents).

I wanted to thank you for taking the time to look at my deck, words cannot describe how much I appreciate it and thanks for the awesome card suggestions!

The thinning is mostly irrelevant, but still optimal. That is why you should always be running them

Soren841: Exactly my sentiment.

Hi, Inkmoth - honestly it's no trouble. As a lover of niche builds (like Gonti food chain, venser food chain, yisan etc.) I can't help but love the idea of mono green combo-control.

I'll start collating the data, but my testing won't be as close to the mark as somebody who plays this as their deck often (I'd never even thought of fetching to clamp Dryad Arbor - that's genius - using it for EE & friends? Also great thinking).

While you're right about Brown Ouphe needing haste, it's a seriously good option for turning off scepter while they dig for a bounce spell, but using Ouphe Vandals vs scepter builds is still good! It's a very corner-case card, but I play against a lot of storm decks, so I've looked for just about every hatebear I can against these; I hope you find a slot for it though YMMV.

I'd be interested to see this cEDH viable windgrace build as it sounds neat; I see how the suggested lands are likely not ideal for yourself - I just find that in Yisan there are occasions (ie post LED) where the draw is necessary.

How's your experience with Shaman of Forgotten Ways ? I'd not considered it, but against my meta it seems smart in yisan & yeva; but it feels win-more due to needing formidable & 11 mana - is it easy?

Unlikely include, but you mention the use of Voyaging Satyr & friends - I'd recommend trying Magus of the Candelabra with Maze of Ith , as it opens up the possibility for t2 wins with infinite mana (though very rare), but it's also a 3 card way to achieve unbounded mana with gaea's cradle. Conversely you could use Ley Weaver (superior to Argothian Elder as it gives you a free shuffle) as a way to gain wins with Maze of Ith . I'm testing these out atm and find that using ley weaver is simpler in yisan, as you can either naturally draw maze / tutor via Sylvan Scrying .

What Windgrace deck?

Good morning, gentlemen!

CyborgAeon: I'm really glad you like the deck! I'm also very happy to hear you've been playing it! Let me know how your games have gone, so that continue to improve upon the list. Glad I could show you Dryad Arbor 's practicality in tandem with Fetches, it's truly come in handy (to a point it's essential).

Brown Ouphe - It's neat that it can stop Isochron Scepter , however, I can't instant speed cast it to stop scepter unless Thousand-Year Elixir is on the field. Otherwise, I have to hope the scepter player plays into it. It's the primary reason Ouphe Vandals is enticing, even though 4 mana for that effect is.... clunky? My testing hasn't found him too useful YET (not giving up hope, I like this card). Not aware of what YMMV means, sorry.

Soren841: It's not your Windgrace deck, it's more of a heavy control deck that works its way up to MLD or T&N into Kiki+Zealot. I will see if my buddy would be willing to post it for you guys.

The fundamental difference between Yisan and Yeva, is that Yeva is literally just a Vedalken Orrery with flash in the CZ, whereas Yisan has value built in. Yeva relies on what's in hand in order to do anything.

Shaman of Forgotten Ways - My experience with this card is phenomenal and he's probably a main-stay for the forseeable future. While the deck has the ability to put everyone in a situation where scooping is the only viable option, you sometimes need to kill the table on the spot and Shaman is the main and most effective way to do it. His requirements to pop off are entirely negligible, since you're at infinite mana when he's being used for that purpose.

Voyaging Satyr : Satyr works in this context cause he's extremely cost efficient and the deck runs every Cradle land+ Crop Rotation , Wild Growth , Utopia Sprawl , and Ancient Tomb . He can fly under the radar until he needs to be exploited all while remaining a 2 drop dork. The problem with Satyr's friends is that I need to commit a land slot to pull off anything worthwhile and the deck only has one land tutor and 31 lands. Last but not least, my combo dorks are quite plentiful, so I can't even begin to wonder how much of a struggle it would be to find 2 slots for even one of them.

Thanks for the comments, guys!

Sounds like the pod is kinda 75%-y if he's banking on mld... but I'd like to see it, as I imagine a staxy divergent build would be cool in Windgrace. Abusing Defense of the Heart into kiki-conscripts / into a hulk based win seems simple with a good value engine in the cz.

Yeva isn't just an orrery in the cz. Yeva represents the same threat that 2 untapped islands shows, while acting as a form of "protection" for your combo, as you don't have to decide whether you're going to play interactive or try to combo in your turn as it's then available across all turns! That's like... a huge buff! For this reason I feel Yeva is stronger than Yisan, as Yisan is in front of your opponents and your steps to winning are broadcast - despite any protection you may have.

I'll have to test out Shaman in Yisan, as a win con at 3 verses seems strong. Below are some questions and suggestions I have from reviewing your creature base.

The problem is Yisan does not wipe everyone's boards to win.. Yisan wincons aren't comparable to Yeva wincons

I'd say the pod is closer to 90%ish. The Windgrace ain't anything special right now, it's literally every cost efficient piece of interaction while ramping up to an eventual Obliterate & Co.

Yeva isn't just an orrery in the cz. Yeva represents the same threat that 2 untapped islands shows, while acting as a form of "protection" for your combo, as you don't have to decide whether you're going to play interactive or try to combo in your turn as it's then available across all turns! That's like... a huge buff! For this reason I feel Yeva is stronger than Yisan, as Yisan is in front of your opponents and your steps to winning are broadcast - despite any protection you may have.

This more or less encapsulates exactly how I feel about Yeva, however, she requires godly hands to outpace Yisan's inherent consistency. I would never undercut her strength, as I am absolutely obsessed with the precedent she establishes. In a world where every hand (and following draw) is optimal, I would be brave enough to say she's "better" than Yisan. As I said in my Disclaimer, I think she's better in the right context, but she'll never compete with the bard's consistency. In fact, whenever Yisan is in my opening hand, I just commit to him until he's dealt with before having Yeva pop in with a replacement combo-crew.

Personally, I don't think Shaman is that great in Yisan, but that's just me.

Generous Patron : Cards like this in the deck are really here to gain CA and the Elf-body + outlet role in mind. Patron only needs one creature, if I feel like I won't be getting value out of it, I pitch it to Survival, Fauna, Chrome Mox, Natural Order, or Eldritch. While it's safe to say I have used Wirewood Symbiote to get procs off of the draw effects, I only do it in situations where I am out of steam or looking for gas. Think of every draw etb in the deck as an outlet, side from its primary function.

Thought-Knot Seer : I loved this guy in Yisan. He's definitely a win-more in my context and my inability to play him at instant speed is enough to deter me from ever considering him.

Lys Alana Huntmaster : The contexts where going wide proves to be a viable choice in this deck usually means I have won. Facilitating this card might be too difficult and I would rather go for Sylvan Offering for the going wide option since it also works with Selvala, Heart of the Wilds along with everything else you said.

Heritage Druid : Never worked in the deck. It finds it hard to truly commit to the Elf-subtheme. As you mentioned, there are only 7 non-mana producing elves. EDIT: I actually even tried to make Birchlore Rangers work to no avail.

Absolutely fair - especially in your meta I can see your reasoning. If I come up with any other viable ouphes/oofs, I'll get right back dropping them here.

CyborgAeon: And you're more than welcome, it's been an absolute pleasure exchanging ideas with you. I will still be testing the ouphe and getting back to you on its performance! Thank you for all the comments and understanding my reasoning!

Ouphe seems very overcosted for what it does.. just run Manglehorn effects (Rec Sage too) or Krosan Grip

Soren841:......NGL seeing Krosan Grip be mentioned made me feel kind of dumb. Yeah, I would totally run grip before ouphe.

Mosswort Bridge seems too slow and clunky for what you want to do anyway. Good call in removing it.

Now just remove Blighted Woodland for a Forest..

My only issue with Blighted Woodland is that it allows me to loop Mouth of Ronom in the scenario where Somberwald Stag is gone and Shaman of Forgotten Ways is my most secure win before having to resort to Geier Reach Sanitarium .

Woodland only grabs basics, how does that loop nonbasics?

Soren841: The land loops combo requires the cost of Crop Rotation to be paid, making it impossible to loop Mouth of Ronom since it needs to sac itself to do the damage, so you loop the Blighted Woodland to get the basics you need to pay for the Crop .

Except you have so many backup combos I think it just ends up hurting more than helping

Soren841: That is honestly my biggest issue with brewing. I get that overly batman complex, where I feel like I have to have every possible scenario taken into account. I was okay with ridding myself of Myriad Landscape , but this one doesn't come in tapped and can give me a nice back-up to a line that can easily be shut off by a well placed Reality Shift . Just let me have this one, Soren841! lol

If so much is exiled that u have to resort to this, you've lost already.. especially considering u need infinite mana for it.

Somberwald Stag can get taken out early when used as deterrent, which means down the line Shaman of Forgotten Ways is a non-option. I like knowing that the stag isn't the only way to achieve something.

You have plenty of backups.. Woodland is like plan f.. that's too many

I'll settle for another land that provides utility, how's that for a compromise?