I don't like Quest for the Nihil Stone . If the other guy draws even one card, it's done. I much prefer Shrieking Affliction , which hits twice as often. It also doesn't need to get any quest counters, so I can put it down at any time.

I don't understand why Molten Slagheap would be good here, please explain. I don't want anything that taps for colorless mana because I'm trying to cast Wrench Mind , Terminate , Hypnotic Specter , and lots of other mana-intensive spells. But if you know something I don't let me know.

Slag heap kind of goes along with the burn i see now it wouldn't be very good in this deck functions perfectly in my kill all discard deck megrim for short Liliana's Caress would be a nice addition

I've found Painful Quandary is fantastic as a one-of in my discard deck.

77ajoker I don't like Liliana's Caress because I have to play it early for any effect and because it slows me down. I'd rather play a Wrench Mind and make you hurt later with Shrieking Affliction when there's nothing you can do about it.

Kravian Painful Quandary is a nice "you shut up" ender. I had those a while back, but Funeral Charm fills the same role now. Discard right after your draw and you can't do anything. Plus, it's more versatile and the mana's easier. Thanks for the good suggestion, though, it is a very fun card to play with. Might be better in a UB Control build.

Why no Inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize ?

ChiefBell Budget. They'd be in here if I had more money that I wanted to spend on Magic, but I don't so they're not. It's sad, I know.

Inquisition of Kozilek is only $7 per, the hardest part is finding someone who will let them go.

Yeah, that's still more than I'm interested in paying. If you're willing to give me some, I won't say no.

Have you done any testing recently? I'd be interested in hearing how it performs. and what kind of match-ups you've come across in your time with the deck. Otherwise I love all of it, +1 from me

Sure, I'll give it a few tests, maybe post them on an update. I mostly see an infect-style Kiln Fiend blitz deck of my friends, I'll be sure to try it against that one. Thanks!

Necrogen Mists Ensnaring Bridge

I would up it to 8Rack.

Since u like creatures Nezumi Shortfang .

One benefit of running 8Rack in Rakdos colors is Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace

Heres my build if u wanna check it out... Rakdos's 8RACK

Necrogen Mists might make it in. The only problem with that is it makes me discard, which I don't really like. I feel like I'm going to be discarding twice as many cards as they will. Ensnaring Bridge is far out of my budget.

I don't really see the benefit of running the full 8 racks. Would you mind explaining why? It seems to me like it would just take up space that you could use on more discard spells.

I do like Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace , I'll put one of those in. Thanks for helping!

well it's your win-con. U want to maximize your chances to find them. Too much discard just means you're going to be top decking useless spells. I would say your deck has a bit too much of things it doesn't need. Despise isn't worth running. If u play Smallpox then it should be the full play set not 1. Read the Bones is a waste of space.

In my experience, Ensnaring Bridge is an absolute must in 8Rack. The deck crumbles without it.

The problem with 8Rack as a whole besides the very boring slow game play is that it really wants to be a 3 piece deck in order to win. Ensnaring Bridge + Liliana of the Veil + The Rack . & Any of those pieces can be answered with an Abrupt Decay A lot of games u will have a hand full of discard and draw into your win-cons but no protection which will most likely loose the game.

You'll get used to the self discard, that's how this deck runs. Discard yours and your opponents hands, lock the board with Ensnaring Bridge and let your opponents die to The Rack while their creatures can't do nothing. This is the reason most 8Rack doesn't run creatures or draw spells.

Bitterblossom and Young Pyromancer are both compatible with Ensnaring Bridge .

Thanks for the help! I ditched Despise and will try to fill out the set of Smallpox , probably cut an Augur of Skulls and Duress . Since I don't have the money for Ensnaring Bridge , I'm going to have to take a different route here, not a traditional 8Rack build. I can't lock down the entire game, which is why I think I'll hang on to the Read the Bones .

If you're on a budget, why not Distress ? It's no Thoughtseize but it does the same thing only later. I wouldn't cut any Duress s, but that's just an opinion.

Distress could work I just don't know what to cut for it. And I feel like I'd rather have a Wrench Mind most of the time. As of right now, I'm not cutting any Duress es.

APPLE01DOJ Thought about your help and I'm agreeing with you more and more. Most of the Read the Bones are out for Blood Scrivener s and I'm trying to find rooom for Necrogen Mists . And idea what to take out?

Thanks againf rot he help and making me think about what I'm doing!

You have a shitload of discard, as a result, I think you should replace Necrogen Mists for Crucible of Worlds . You could just discard your own lands to satisfy any conditions where you need to discard or retrace Raven's Crime, then play them from the graveyard. Then it's probably be pretty safe to add another Smallpox . Also consider Rain of Tears .

m4ver1k, the whole point of this deck is to have a mess of discard spells. They're like proactive countermagic. Necrogen Mists is a workhorse here because it keeps my opponent from drawing back up and getting out of range of The Rack . I'll be left topdecking as well, but I'm not taking 3 to 6 damage every turn.

Crucible of Worlds is an interesting idea. The thing is that the highest mana cost in the deck is 3, so by the time I can play it I don't really need that many more lands. Once I've hit 4 I'm set for the whole game.

As for Rain of Tears , I'd rather stick to what I'm already doing. Each spell that isn't a discard spell weakens my strategy, so I want to minimize those. Consequently, I'd rather keep discard spells than cut them for land destruction. It's a strong card, but I just can't find the room.

Thanks for the suggestions, it's this kind of help that really makes me think about the deck.

I like discard decks alot and I like budget modern decks so automatic +1 from me. Some creatures I thought could be worth thinking about are Augur of Skulls , Nezumi Shortfang , and Hypnotic Specter . Liliana's Caress could also do some good damage.

Sorry for double post, but I think Augur of Skulls is strictly better than Wrench Mind

Monoblack 8rack doesn't really play creatures. It occasionally has Dark Confidant but that's it.

There are more aggressive creature based versions in theory - but I've never seen them played.

• twospires Good deck! The only thing I'd like to say is that you have too many lands... maybe 1x less could work ;)
  Oh, and for the creatures... consider Nyxathid
  

• ChiefBell Hey there, I'd have to disagree considering the fact that not ALWAYS you can control the things that hit the battlefield... so "not really playing creatures" in an XRack Monoblack would be... reckless. One should be always prepared to deal (without sniping spells like Doomblade) with small to medium sized threats... for example Leatherback Baloth , it being very easy to cast even in dual color decks.
  Don't know... having a couple Nyxathid for defense and extra damage in your discard deck is never a bad idea :)
  Have a good one! Oh, and check Handfall (7Rack), it has creatures and it works veeery smoothly.

I didn't communicate an opinion - I said I've never seen a creature based 8rack deck. I haven't. They don't place highly in modern tournaments. It's not an opinion, it's a fact. I didn't say 'I think playing creatures would be bad'. I love Nyxathid for example. Would creatures be fun to play in an 8rack deck? Yes. Is it seen in top tier play? No.

Your 3 drop should really be Liliana of the Veil . No room for Nyxathid , that's the problem. And most decks run something like 4x Dismember and 2x Victim of Night , giving 6 killspells and a planeswalker that forces sacrifices. You don't need creatures because you're forcing so much discard that none should hit the board. Furthermore, in a few decks I've seen Ensnaring Bridge which basically makes a lot of creatures useless.

I gotta agree with ChiefBell here. Although Nyxathid is good, it should really be a Liliana of the Veil instead and the only creature you should play is Dark Confidant . You really want cards that do something in a deck like this and if you think about it Nyxathid is just a creature with no abilities. But it's clear though that Liliana of the Veil and Dark Confidant are really high dollar cards so if twospires is on a budget I'm all for Blood Scrivener s and Nyxathid s