Zombies in Kansas (T3 Win)

Modern DuTogira

SCORE: 47 | 99 COMMENTS | 7705 VIEWS | IN 15 FOLDERS


DuTogira says... #1

Nevermind, already found my answer. Nooze turns itself into an artifact to become a legal target for GA's "turn an ARTIFACT creature blue" ability. This means even the Nooze back up combo is weak to artifact hate. Unless I replace the Memnarch with some other creature with color changing capabilities, this shuts down the Nooze combo.
Problem here is Memnarch was passable because he is a wincon himself, enables the Nooze infinite mana combo, and enables Nooze to win by itself using Memnarch's two active abilities. No other card provides color changing, is a wincon with infinite mana, and turns Nooze into a wincon.
Long story short Nooze isn't going to happen. Until I find a better replacement, it looks like i'm on the Batterskull for alt-con route. Thank you guys for all of your help and input though!

December 8, 2015 8:50 p.m.

DuTogira says... #2

Starting to think I might not even need an alt-con after all. As a BUG deck, I have at my disposal as many as 10 answers to artifact hate (5 spells and 5 recursion tools) to push the combo through. All of the combo decks prior listed have nowhere near as as many ways to force their combos thru.
Thoughts?

December 8, 2015 10 p.m.

Don't forget your counterspells! I say you're fine without. Also note that Bskull won't be cast until turn 5 in this deck, so really you won't gain life until turn 6 if your opponent isn't attacking. The one thing to keep in mind is that things like Slaughter Games or Surgical Extraction will end your combo completely. You should have some sort of plan for that.

December 8, 2015 10:06 p.m.

DuTogira says... #4

That was what Batterskull was for. My reasoning was this: if Pili-Pala gets extracted etc (he would be the only minion my opponent would have access to with surgical in most games), my deck is still able to function like a BUG control deck for the most part. Grand Architect remains useful because he can tap himself and any other blue creatures I control to provide ramp to play Batterskull. He can also buff Snappy to a 3/2, jace to a 1/3, and DoP to a 1/6. This is assuming I only have one on the board. Most of the cards in the deck are still functional (albeit sub-optimal) in a BUG control list.
The problem is that Surgical Extraction and Slaughter Games are rare to see in modern, and I don't want to make my list's over-all win-rate worse just to tech against a fringe card, which is why I even bother debating the usefulness of Batterskull.
I also don't count my counter magics as answers to artifact hate because Muddle can't hit Stony Silence and on t4+ Remand can't stop it either.

December 9, 2015 2:42 a.m.

DuTogira says... #5

Ok so I won't be resetting the comment section despite the massive conversation that just took place. The reason is that the deck did not change throughout. I can find no further changes I wish to make to the deck, but I am not omniscient, and am still open to any and all suggestions.
I would especially appreciate any and all suggestions regarding what I can use as a superior alternate win-con to Batterskull, though despite intensive searching on my part I have yet to find one.

December 9, 2015 5:50 p.m.

DuTogira says... #6

Are there any cards that have been printed that allow one to cast cards that have been exiled? I have searched gatherer and found nothing but it could just be oddly worded.
Does anyone know if such a card exists?

December 9, 2015 8:56 p.m.

They exist, but they're not good. Mostly in white, if not exclusively. Trust me, you don't want them.

Honestly I think Bskull is a fantastic Altcon. Especially because you can cast it turn 4 with only 3 land drops with Grand Architect. It's very hard to deal with and will cause a big advantage swing at a minimum.

December 9, 2015 9:09 p.m. Edited.

DuTogira says... #8

I'll stick with the Grom then. In time I'll learn to accept it. I'm still bummed that the Nooze combo does nothing for this deck though, and frantically trying to find something as good as I thought Nooze was.

Thank you so much for all of your advice ToolmasterOfBrainerd. I guarantee I would have tried to force Nooze to be a thing in this deck without your help :P

December 9, 2015 9:15 p.m.

DuTogira says... #9

Two new cards I am pretty excited about. voidgrafter
And
flaying tendrils
The former provides a pretty nice blocking body and effectively acts as a counter spell if my opponent tried to remove Pili-Pala. Thing is, Simic Charm already can do that, is highly flexible, and costs less. Is the creature body more valuable?
Flaying tendrils is a sweeper in black. What makes it unique is that it only costs 3 mana, and exiles opponent creatures. I already have refused other black sweepers but none have been this cheap. Is this one worth it?

January 5, 2016 2:43 p.m.

Adameus2012 says... #10

I can't think of a better alt wincon than batterskull at the moment, but a creeping tar pit to pop the batterskull onto when the germ, that may finish up a game a bit quicker, and as a bonus you could still tap it for mana after the swing.

January 5, 2016 4:48 p.m.

Adameus2012 says... #11

Oh, almost forgot as well that the Grand Architects could beef it up too, whether with the batterskull or without it could still be pretty deadly.

January 5, 2016 4:53 p.m.

Adameus2012 says... #12

Also, as to your question regarding simic charm vs. void grafter. No, the body, as tempting as it is, is not worth the extra mana in your deck, at least not mainboard. Maybe a good sideboard replacement to board in if simic charm becomes less useful in a matchup than the 2/4 body. As far as the sweeper, have you not considered drown in sorrow? The cost is the same, it gives the same -2/-2, and you can scry.

January 5, 2016 5:02 p.m.

DuTogira says... #13

Good point with Drown in Sorrow. I have considered and rejected that one, so flaying tendrils will also be a no for this deck. I will test void grafter in the sideboard, and see if he really does help Aggro match ups all that much. Thank you for the advice!

January 5, 2016 5:37 p.m.

jesmister says... #14

Seems like a cool idea but cannot beat any of the meta.

January 5, 2016 8:42 p.m.

TheFoilAjani says... #15

jesmister Why don't you think this deck can win?

January 5, 2016 9:07 p.m.

DuTogira says... #16

I too am curious as to why this deck can't beat the meta. It isn't quite as strong as I would like against a number of aggro decks pre-board, and Tron gives me some trouble, but Zombies in Kansas can handle most other control decks and combo decks quite well. Even Amulet Bloom isn't that bad for me.
Given that I am one of maybe four people who have played this deck more than ten times, I am not even sure that I am playing my own deck perfectly, so I should think any one match-up which it seems to struggle with could gain at least a 5% boost to the win-rate if I were a perfect player.

January 6, 2016 9:03 p.m.

I second that. I've played this deck more than 10 times, but it is very difficult to play with. There are so many lines of play available that you really have to know what you're doing to pilot it effectively. The primer is fantastic at explaining a lot of the beginning tips you'll need to at least have a starting point for playing the deck, but even the best primers ever can only give you guidance. You ultimately have to learn the deck and its nuances (which are many in this deck) well enough to have a shot against any deck that's more than casual. But the potential for the deck is astoundingly high if played correctly.

January 6, 2016 9:21 p.m.

DuTogira says... #18

Cards I have found just digging around on my spare time that might be good in here:
Myr Superion: A free 5/6 that comes out as early as T3 with Grand Architect. Decent-ish against aggro decks since he kills Rhino, Goyf (sometimes) and Tasigur. He dies to Abrupt Decay and artifact hate, but survives bolt easily. Downside is that I have to play Architect to play him, which is a twofold drawback since architect is a combo component.
Dimir-doppleganger: I don't really like this one. 6 mana to be useful. The cost is the only downside though. It basically provides bonus copies of Grand Architect and Pili-Pala while also providing graveyard hate if necessary. I highly doubt I could be convinced to use him over Postmortem Lunge though. The extra cost is... discouraging.
Eternal Witness: Well... She's not new, but she's not bad either. Not sure I have room for her in the list though. I don't really have any problems accessing cards in my yard.
Glissa, the Traitor: She seems pretty good in a deck like this, as she provides one hell of a blocker and can help me get Pili-Pala back. The problem is she dies to bolt, decay, and really any creature removal spell out there. On top of that, because Postmortem Lunge isn't an instant, I can't use her for combat tricks. She's not easy to cast either...
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner: Could be useful against decks with large amounts of targeted removal. Most of those decks are aggro decks though and her small body means she probably won't change the opponent's kill clock. Batterskull simply out-classes her in most of the match-ups where she would be useful... but maybe I'm missing something.
Myr Welder: Bonus Pili-Palas that don't die to bolt... only I already have cards which act as copies 5-8 of Pili-Pala, and they tend to get the opponent dead faster. Maybe one of them is worth using for UR match-ups?
Silent Arbiter: Decent tech for aggro decks, and is good against Twin. Grand Architect gets him out faster too. The problem is that most midrange decks in modern (which are the decks that this one struggles with most) only need one attack per turn to win. Not really sure he deserves a sideboard slot.

All of these cards are ones which I have prior considered but rejected from the list. I bring them up now just in case there is something I may have missed which makes any of them worth playing in the deck.

January 7, 2016 2:17 a.m.

Adameus2012 says... #19

You had mentioned myr superion? And Grand Architect. Aether vial may not be a bad choice? It can null the restriction on superion. And perhaps koldotha forgemaster, as it's a fair sized body, dodges bolt, decay, and after a turn it can sac itself to dodge path, and be recurred with postmortem lunge or academy ruins. Also can tutor for key combo pieces.

January 7, 2016 10:01 a.m.

DuTogira says... #20

Vial just doesn't do what this deck wants it to. It's nice but there isn't room in the 75.
The superior would be a 1 of instead of something like Pithing Needle since it could just beat down those big creatures that needle was "pacifying"
I'm also really excited about this new 3 drop eldrazi that provides card draw when it does, but summons 3- cmc creatures right to the field if they are the draw. Reality warper/shaper or something like that.

January 7, 2016 11:04 a.m.

DuTogira says... #21

Dun updated the deck. Lemee know if ya have any thoughts friends.

October 17, 2016 1:04 a.m.

Interesting choices. This meta is so fast that something like Damnation as a hard end to the aggro period for most decks could be beneficial. Abrupt Decay at 2 mana is difficult in this deck. Disfigure as, like, a 3-of in the sideboard seems almost mandatory just to be able to keep up.

October 17, 2016 4:29 a.m.

DuTogira says... #23

Sounds about right. Darn aggro decks, always making me build around them.

October 17, 2016 10:58 a.m.

DuTogira says... #24

Instead of disfigure... this deck should probably just run mainboard goyf...
He works well with the graveyard elements, hurts less than disfigure, better supports switching to full blown sultai control post board, and makes me feel like scum to play.

October 19, 2016 12:56 p.m. Edited.

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