As for your counter spell line up Have you considered using Remand,Spell Pierce or Disrupt? I feel Remand is better than memory lapse and Spell Pierce is really solid. Covers a wider range of targets. Also Disrupt is a cantrip. I would also highly recommend Misdirection. Ive been a fan of it since its debut back in MM. Its extremely potent as a counter spell. Im still working through the deck list and play testing it so im not sure where to make cuts as your deck is extremely solid. But i kind of want a few more counters and another removal like utter end in here.

I don't know why people think Memory Lapse is so bad. I think it is a great counter spell. With Remand, yes you draw a card, but they can cast it again (if they have mana). You also know what the next card that they are going to draw is. Memory Lapse with some sort shuffle to a commander is legal tucking :)

The-Xellos - memory lapse isn't "legal tucking", the rule is that if your commander would be sent to your library/hand/graveyard/exile from anywhere, you can put it back in the command zone.

Person can chose if they want it in the command zone or top of deck, if they chose top of deck and they shuffle before they draw they cannot change there mind and get it out before the shuffle.

Thats true, although that is no different than any other tuck effect ever printed.

@ PlattBonnay: I think The-Xellos was implying that people are more liable at certain times to allow their commander to go to top of library instead of the alternative of incurring recasting penalties from the command zone. If they do choose to put their commander on top it'll give you free reign to shuffle their library for them. ;)

Hey again,

So in my play testing and matches im starting to see a few cards that could be cut without effecting the deck too much. Mainly because in my experience they turn out to be redundant to better cards in the deck. I am considering cutting the following from my deck to add the following

cuts:Phyresis, steel of the godhead, umbra Mystic, oblation, copy Enchantment

Adds:Cryptic Command, Misdirection, Utter End,Forbid,Hero's downfall

My reasons for this are as follows

Phyresis: Acts as a "win more" card. With you only needing 21 dmg to kill with Zur. Using infect to get to 15 late game seems like a back step.

Steel of the Godhead: Both abilities on the card are granted by Daybreak Coronet. And you can use Unquestioned Authority to make Zur unblockable anyways. And seemly redundant card.

Umbra Mystic: Vanishing pretty much covers this ability without question. I get the second level of defense. But i would rather just use counter magic as my back up.

Oblation: Since the tuck rule is gone i don't like this card giving my opponent cards. I prefer permanent solutions. Replaced with utter end.

Copy Enchantment: Maybe i just haven't come across a great use for this card yet. But i feel another control card is better in this slot. Using it for greater Auramancy is awesome. But it can be better served as more control.

The additions should be obvious on why. Again fantastic deck man. I'm loving it so far. Just wanted to pass along my observations. Tell me what you think on the changes.

Hey again,

Wanted to relay my latest observation. I just got a hold of a snapcaster mage. Omg this guy belongs in this deck. Only played a few games with him in it. But each time he has been a life saver. He is really broken when combined with either Jace or Sun Titan. I highly recommend you find a spot for him if nothing else. Maybe cut Copy Enchantment or Phyresis for him.

Something else i just learned while rereading the rules for phasing.

You have to be very careful with Vanishing while stasis is in play. If for some reason you need to phase Zur while it is in play. Stasis will have to die or Zur will never phase back in. Because phase in occurs at your untap step.

This is the most disgusting thing i have seen. Reminds me of my playgroup when we used to use proxie decks. One of my friends in the group ran a zur enchanter deck. shudders

The comments were getting out of hand so I've reset them; many were old and in regards to another version of the deck making them irrelevant. Here's to another few hundred, and always: Thanks for your continued support!

I'd personally recommend against Forbid. When I tested it I found that I was barely ever actually buying it back, which at that point only made it Cancel. For 3CMC I would recommend Dissipate or Render Silent. There's also Mindbreak Trap which is amazing.

While I realize I won't always be in a position to use the buyback on Forbid having the option to when I need it is really the reason it made the cut over the other spells you mentioned. I usually have boatloads of lands in my hand due to necropotence anyways and end up discarding them at end of turn so if i'm going to be discarding em anyways I might as well be chucking them to Forbid is what I'm thinking.

That being said Dissipate is very high on my list of potential additions for the future. Render Silent on the other hand was too color intensive to be consistently reliable during playtesting.

That's fair.

Also, I would highly recommend taking a look into Mindbreak Trap. While it's one of the more costly counterspells, the exile is really worthwhile. Not to mention it shuts down storm and things like Boseiju, Who Shelters All so hard. And in a counter war, it can cost zero, which is also nice.

Holy crap! You took almost all of my suggestions. Im honored. Truly. I do have one more for you.

Crucible of Worlds.

This card BELONGS here. I recently reconstructed the deck based off of your original design and only added Crucible to it. The play testing has been amazing.

On a perfect draw you have the ability to soft lock someone on turn 1 with it. Mana crypt, sol Ring, strip mine, Crucible of Worlds in opening hand. Then just wait till they miss a land drop.

Even without that. Dropping it after an Armageddon is clutch. With the amount of utility lands in this deck and land destruction in general. You need Crucible.

Still no Helm of Obedience in mainboard? I've been using it in my deck, and I end up winning with it a solid 25% of the time, either because Zur gets shot or because I happen to be a position to win with it a few turns faster.

@ sonalexander: I appreciated you taking the time to add reasons for the suggested additions and even went so far as to make cut suggestions (which no one seems to do...). That being said a few of your suggested cuts don't work the way you thought they did. Steel of the Godhead does not do "essentially" the same thing as Daybreak Coronet, SOTG is for unblockable which I need to have at least 2 auras that do that in case I run into the problem of not being able to attack due to large flyers. Phyresis is in the deck as a one shot kill card, needing only 10 damage with it (not 15 which only applies to two-headed giant games). I've been meaning to update the deck to account for tuck rule changes and many of your suggestions pertained to that so I agreed with you for most of those. I've had my eye on snapcaster for awhile... Just haven't been able to playtest because I get glared at if its not a 5+ player game and I bring out Zur haha. I don't really feel like Crucible of Worlds is needed here as I usually have the game finished up before I'm worried about getting lands back, so aside from the cheesy Strip Mine combo I don't feel like it's worth a slot.

Yeah you are right on the Godhead. My initial play testing saw it not really needed. But several games later i realized you need the double auras on the off chance you get them in your hand. My mistake. Just hadn't run into those situations yet. But i thought i compared SotGH to Unquestioned Authority as that card also makes Zur unblockable. As well as Daybreak.

Phyresis i realized later it was 10 poison. That was my bad. Everyone i play commander with insists it's 15. They didn't realize official rules were 10. I apologize for my misinformation. I still haven't run into a situation where its been needed though. As you say when you get the game locked i haven't found much of a difference in commander dmg vs poison. I know poison is 10 and commander is 21. But when you have both empyrial and ethereal armor in him with necro. He is a 1 hit kill anyways. I will play test it more and see how it turns out

And as for things like Snapcaster and the others in your maybe board. I was only trying to reaffirm your thoughts on those cards. They have been very helpful and felt perfect in the deck.

I understand the struggle trying to play test this deck. Most see Zur and just say "nope". I find myself asking to playtest it and letting people know is very competitive before hand to ease the situation.

As for Crucible. This might be a personal preference because I'm an old school U/W control player. I hate the idea of killing off my lands. Crucible removes that concern. Yes the soft lock is cheesy. But the card can serve more purpose too. Say you drop it on turn 2 or 3 with a fetch land. Now you don't get mana screwed. Same with mana vortex and statis. It helps keep those cards active.

Just some thoughts. Sounded like I offended you which i didn't mean too. Just trying to add insight to help with the perfection. I love to talk shop and theory craft.

@NarejED: No i haven't put it in yet. I've been thinking about it though; It kinda feels like a mercy kill card, "here I'll end your suffering now"... haha. It'll probably end up replacing Mana Vortex (because it's slow) in the near future and function as a backup win-con.

@sonalexander: More often than not I tend to disagree with the suggestions people make so I like to tell them why I do or don't like the card in question; sometimes it may come across as hostile but it's never the intention, it's just my opinion on the matter.

I agree with Vortex being a bit slow and Helm should totally be in here. This deck does lack an alternative win con.

Wouldn't Diplomatic Immunity shroud Zur making it unable to be targeted?

Zimmers_0: Zur's ability doesn't actually cast the enchantments/aura, just puts them into play. In the case of auras it just puts them into play attached to him, it doesn't ever target.

Zimmers_0 What enpc said is correct, you will still be able to tutor with Zur's ability and attach Enchantments to him. However, if you have Immunity on him, you will not be able to cast one from your hand to enchant him. Which is exactly why I use See Beyond in my list, so I can toss back an Enchantment that I didn't want to draw.

Thanks enpc & CrovaxTheCursed for answering on my behalf. I felt like an in depth (and irrefutable) answer might be more necessary as I get this question every time I wipe the comments.

@ Zimmers_0: From Zur's official rulings. I also grabbed the relevant rules clauses and broke them down.

7/15/2006 - If you use Zur the Enchanter's triggered ability to search for an Aura, it will be put onto the battlefield attached to an appropriate permanent. It doesn't target that permanent. If no appropriate permanent exists for it to be attached to, that Aura can't be put onto the battlefield and stays in your library.

303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a players control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesnt specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters thebattlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Auras enchant ability and any other applicable effects.

303.4g If an Aura is entering the battlefield and there is no legal object or player for it to enchant, the Aura remains in its current zone, unless that zone is the stack. In that case, the Aura is put into its owners graveyard instead of entering the battlefield.

Because the object is "chosen" instead of targeted it bypasses shroud/hexproof (Just like clones do with copy effects).

When determining the "legality" of said object the player must ensure the aura is being attached to a card of the right permanent type (enchant creature vs enchant land, player, etc.), alternate conditions are met (ex/ Daybreak Coronet can only be attached if another aura is on the creature), the object is still in play (not in another zone like hand, graveyard, exile, etc.), and does not have protection from the color of the aura. If there are no legal targets the aura remains in the zone it came from (the library in this case) as per rule 303.4g.

Diplomatic Immunity does indeed prevent casting aura's from my hand (targeting Zur) which is why I run Scroll Rack and Jace, the Mind Sculptor to put auras from my hand back into the library.

Can I ask why you Rest in Peace?