As far as your Umbra Mystic vs Bastion Protector argument goes I have to lean more towards the mystic as it is less fragile and despite not really ever enchanting it at least I have the option; also having the wizard subtype makes umbra work with Cavern of Souls as another reason it works better. Honestly I'm considering removing Umbra Mystic for the new Shielded by Faith instead. Umbra is great and all but sometimes having to tutor for it is a pain. Being able to fetch indestructibility easily feels like it'll mesh better than totem armor although it leaves Zur more open to target player sacks a creature effects (hopefully which will be countered).

Yeah I am super excited for Shielded by Faith. Finally, Indestructibility at 3CMC for Zur to tutor. I gotta believe that card was printed specifically for Zur, it just fits so well. I was thinking of removing Nevermore from mine to make the room, since I never know what to name with that card anyway; and with only one potential copy of the named card to worry about, it seems excessive and unnecessary.

edit: Typically I will name their commander with Nevermore, but I've run into too many occasions where they had an immediate, almost too simple, answer for it and it becomes a wasted tutor. Plus it doesn't help too much in multiplayer with multiple commanders to worry about.

Hey there, as this seems to be the best site about Zur the Enchanter EDH i would like to ask you a few questions, about cards i considered playing.Please tell me what you think about them.Please keep in mind, that i do mostly play Zur in Multiplayer, not 1v1.

Animate DeadI think one tutorable Reanimation effect is great to have, as sometimes there are key creatures, that win you the game if reanimated (especially good in multiplayer)

Prison TermThis has always been good against opposing commanders, especially against Uril, the Miststalker, as it doesnt target, when you bring it in with Zur

Copy EnchantmentI think this is just to important to leave out.The Necropotence + Solitary Confinement + Greater Auramancy + Copy Enchantment lock is just too awesome (especially in Multiplayer).Also it can copy a Ethereal Armor, to give a huge boost.

Luminarch AscensionThis is definitely more of a multiplayer card, but there, it is awesome.With Solitary Confinement we can easily negate incoming damage and then the Ascension wins the game on its own for us

Expedition MapGreat to tutor for Strip Mine or Hall of the Bandit Lord or Reliquary Tower

Supreme Verdictin my testings this has been awesome, as you can be sure, that it resolves (probably also better in Multiplayer, than single player)

Karmic Justicewell, isnt this just awesome in a Zur deck?

Cyclonic Rifti cant see, why you left this one out. In my opinion its just too powerful not to play it

Divine ReckoningSeems good with Zur, and the Flasback is great against Aggro decks.(maybe, still, i should take this one out)

ForbidAs i saw, you already considered this one.I can really recommend it, as it is a soft-lock on its own together with Necropotence.Awesome card, although i can see your reasoning of it costing 3 Mana to use

Rhystic StudyThis card has always been awesome for me. Be it 1v1 or Multiplayer (in the latter its definitely even better).

Mystic RemoraRhystic Studys little (but not less powerful) brother.I can really recommend testing it, it has proven very good for me. (especially in Multiplayer)

Ghostly Prison and PropagandaI cant see, why you arent running these. Arent they just too important to play?(or are they just good in multiplayer? Or not even there?)

Mother of Runes and SpellskiteI love how you can drop them before playing Zur and then protect Zur without using any resources. I can really recommend them!

Talisman of Dominance, Talisman of Progress, Fellwar Stone, Coldsteel Heart, Copy ArtifactIf you want to run some more mana rocks, i can really recommend you those, they are all very good, as they let you play Zur a turn earlier

Austere CommandI dont get, why you dont run this one?

Dark Tutelagewith my average cmc being 1,5, this has really been a Phyrexian Arena Nr. 2 for me.

Return to Dustcan you tell me, why you recommend against running this? Seems really good to me.

Academy RectorThe rector has been really good for me.In multiplayer nobody wants to attack you with ground attackers, as long as he is on the battlefield, cause they know you will fetch some crazy enchantment (like Necropotence) when he dies.

Dispel Has proven great in counterwars and to protect Zur from Swords and Path

DelayOften it is a hard counter (f.e. against other Counterspells or opposing commanders)

CountersquallAnother cheap (cmc2) Counterspell to protect Zur and other important spells.The bonus of 2 life loss rarely matters.

Well, those are my recommendations/questions.Id really love to hear everyones comments about them!(Especially about Ghostly Prison, Propaganda and Divine Reckoning as they seem to be the most debateable choices)

Further i would like to know if Empyrial Armor is really still that important.I used to also play it, but it has always been an awful topdeck, and seemed like it was not really needed at all.We do have Ethereal Armor, which costs less and is often an even bigger boost to Zurs Power/Toughness.Sure, we can theoretically make Zur extremely large (using Necropotence and Reliquary Tower) but this really needs a lot of setup and doesnt seem worth it.In case we dont have Ethereal Armor anymore, Steel of the Godhead and Daybreak Coronet seem to get zur big enough anyways.

Last but not least:-Condemn really seems underwhelming considering the change to the tuck rule. Id recommend to cut it.-Oblivion Ring is strictly better than Grasp of Fate if you are exclusively playing 1v1 and not multiplayer (dont know if thats the case though)-Foil i dont think we can really support this card enough, with that small amount of Islands available in this deck. Please tell me more about how it worked for you.

Hoping for some responses.kind regards

While we're discussing recommendations....

I recently started testing Toxic Deluge in my own Zur deck, and it's been nothing short of fantastic. The life payment is usually trivial given the enormous EDH starting life total coupled with Zur's lifegain off of Daybreak and Godhead. It shuts down numerous decks, including ones that rely on indestructibility, and it can often be used such that it wipes the board except for Zur himself. Tutoring for Daybreak or Empyrial Armor and paying 6 life on casting. Furthermore, while not always relevant, having a 3-drop vs the traditional 4-drop board wipes like Supreme Verdict can catch opponents completely off guard. That lower cost can mean the different between tapping out and leaving a blue up for Swan Song, or simply being able to play out more spells later in the turn. I highly recommend the card.

Also, @sigisiegert. I think you have that backwards with Oblivion Ring and Grasp of Fate. EDH is primarily a multiplayer format, meaning that, most of the time, Grasp of Fate is strictly better than O-Ring, especially given the deck's land base, as well as the fact that, a good chunk of the time, Grasp is being tutored out for free via Zur's ability. Unless you're playing French, you should always be running Grasp over O-Ring.

I definitely agree with some of your other recommendations though. Cyclonic Rift is an auto-include in any blue deck. It's both an early-game tempo swing and a late-game board wipe that often leads to scoops.

Divine Reckoning is also amazing. It shuts down any deck trying to go wide, and the flashback is indeed relevant, as it forces opponents to think wisely before trying to rebuild their board states. The only reason I'm not fully behind it is because it doesn't touch other Voltron and Voltron-like generals like Narset. Still a great card though.

I also agree with Fellwar Stone. Very rarely will you find a table that doesn't have at least one person playing blue and black. Usually all three colors are online in a four player match by turn 3, if not earlier. All it takes is one person to play City of Brass or Mana Confluence for it to reach its maximum potential. I'm not sure on the exact rulings, but from what I understand, even if none of the three Esper colors are available, you can still choose red or green and have it produce one colorless mana. (Because of the commander rule, since those colors lie outside of your identity, they become colorless instead.)

I'm curious as to what changes you would make as to make this deck more Multiplayer oriented. I've been trying to make Zur myself and I've come to find this deck list as quite a good template to work from.

I question this because EDH is primarily a multiplayer format and the 1v1 format is French, which we all know that Zur is banned from.

I also question, when do you Vanish Zur out of the game? Is it only when necessary? When do you actually tutor for it? It seems to me that your order doesn't fit it in very well.

My order tends to go, Diplomatic Immunity, Vanishing, ...

What am I missing in your deck that takes advantage of Rest in Peace?

@ iAzire: Rest in Peace is a decent utility card against graveyard shenanigans by itself, but the thing that really makes it good is the combo it has with Helm of Obedience. Since RIP's effect is state-based, activating Helm for any amount of mana exiles a single opponent's entire library.

@NarejED: So in a multiplayer game you could mill multiple opponents with cards like Voltaic Key or Tezzeret the Seeker yes? It seems like Tezzeret may not be a bad addition.

Indeed, and Tezzeret is definitely a powerful card. His first 2 abilities are both extremely useful to the deck. I even tested him a bit in my version of it. My only qualm is that he's a hate magnet that doesn't protect himself very well, and the deck very rarely has blockers to spare to keep him alive, meaning he usually ends up being a 5-drop tutor for Helm (which is still quite good. Only adds 1 to the cost).

On those somewhat rare occasions when he DOES stick for more than 1 turn, he's been extremely devastating. Untapping Sol Ring and Isochron Scepter at the same time, or tutoring for Strionic Resonator can all be powerful plays.

@sigisiegert: The following addresses your respective card suggestions. Thanks for taking the time to comment!

Animate Dead, Copy Enchantment - Rarely ever needed during extensive playtesting

Prison Term - Was in a previous version and took it out for some reason. I happen to agree with cutting

Condemn (i must've missed it when revising for the new tuck rules...) and will swap it with Prison Term as it's a much better fit for pesky commanders & creatures.

Luminarch Ascension, Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, Ghostly Prison, Propaganda - Better suited for multiplayer

Supreme Verdict, Divine Reckoning, Austere Command - No spare slots and Winds of Rath is better suited. Austere's CMC is a little high.

Expedition Map - No spare card slots and there's no lands that are over the top to search for. If I need one bad enough i'll just use a black tutor

Karmic Justice - Although convenient I'd rather just try and protect important permanents with counterspells.

Cyclonic Rift - Always awesome but I don't know what I'd take out... Any suggestions anybody? Possibly Aura of Silence if anything i'm thinking.

Dark Tutelage - Redundant with Phyrexian Arena / no extra space

Return to Dust, Forbid - CMC too high and double color symbols aren't ideal. I like to run everything as cheap mana costing as possible so if I need to use removal I can also afford to use a low costing counterspell the same turn if need be.

Mother of Runes - Too fragile, may need haste and can't target beyond the shroud... Spellskite however may be actually really good here! I'll look at potential cuts to fit it in

Academy Rector - No over the top enchantments to find (like Eldrazi Conscription) and also my playgroup runs a lot of exile.

Re/ mana rocks - Talismans are the next potential additions if i ever feel like I need them and have room... the other 3 are too situational or slow

Dispel - Already in the maybeboard

Delay - I'll consider it but don't have the space right now

Countersquall - No room and not totally thrilled on having to pay a black

Empyrial Armor is still relatively handy in more of a late game board state with Ethereal Armor usually requiring less set up. It's more of a back up card that surprises people with Phyresis.

Foil - Has worked well in the past. Having the option to cast it for free makes it valuable enough to run it despite it's high CMC. I'm thinking of adding another island as well... sigh ($80/ea)

Grasp of Fate vs Oblivion Ring - While this deck is built for 1v1 it is usually played in multiplayer anyways (no one will play it 1v1 lol) so basically it's just for my playgroup. I'd normally run it the other way around as you said but one white mana isn't gonna make or break it here, not with my land base and the fact that it'd usually be tutored up if needed as NarejED stated.

@NarejED: I'll think about Toxic Deluge but it probably won't make the cut. I don't have a whole lot of room for board wipes and Winds of Rath is less situational as Zur will always be enchanted before he has a really high defense. Also Cataclysm is better because it hits everything (especially lands)

@iAzire: I don't really have the time to discuss an entire change to multiplayer at the moment as I'm quite busy with college; however, i may make a seperate deck variant in the future for multiplayer games.Yes i realize this list is a paradox with the way rulings and formats go being neither multiplayer nor french format, it's more for personal fun. I should add that this deck was built before french format even existed :D

Vanishing is tutored for second (right after Diplomatic Immunity) and it's only used when Zur is in danger from sacrifice effects and board wipes.

Rest in Peace is a great utility card that is mainly in for insurance against graveyard abusing decks but secondly works as a winconditon with Helm of Obedience as NarejED said. Indeed if this was meant for multiplayer I'd throw Tezzeret the Seeker in for sure as he also allows for infinite Stasis!

@ outofnothing0: Yeah, I can understand Toxic Deluge and other more global spells being as useful if you're still gearing the deck exclusively for 1v1. I personally love the card, as I usually play my deck in 4-player matches, and there's now a serious Derevi Stax deck in my meta. The deck is wickedly evil, and often Deluge is the only answer that can be reached in time before she resolves a Gaddock Teeg or another abusive card / setup.

My advice would be to have Deluge off to the side for those times when you do end up playing multiplayer. EDH's official rules allow for a ten card sideboard. You could utilize that as the deck's partial multiplayer transformation, filling it with certain board wipes and other more global effects (Rhystic Study and Consecrated Sphinx come to mind), along with possibly a bit of true sideboard tools like artifact hate, additional graveyard hate, Storm hate, etc.

Great Zur list! Might I suggest Command Beacon? It's quite nice to cast a Zur again for his converted mana cost.

+1, I'm definitely saving this. Sweet build!

Seconded on Command Beacon. I've added it to my build, and it's been well worth the spot. On those rare occasions where Zur doesn't stick multiple times, it's incredibly powerful. I've had a few games where the rest of the table ganged up on me and Zur ended up costing 12 mana total to cost. With Beacon, I was able to move him to hand and keep enough mana open to counter the hate. Ended up winning thanks to it. I think you could justify cutting a Plains, or possibly Wasteland (useful in 1v1, but junk in multiplayer. That, and you're running a relatively low land count, so it can end up doing more harm than help occasionally, even in 1v1 matches) for it.

Have you considered Ashes to Ashes? It's great because it exiles rather than destroys, and it's a 2-for-1 card.

I've always liked this deck, and have been watching it develop over time... I can't believe I had never given it a +1 before!

I have a soft spot in my heart for Esper (Dakkon Blackblade is Esper, and he was and is my all-time favourite piece of MTG art). My very first EDH deck was the Oloro precon, and since then I have worked on and crafted #SorryNotSorry into what it is today. You were one of the people who inspired me to pimp it out with foils and alters.

Keep up the great work!

I'm thinking about building this for a 1v1 tourney in a few weeks. Any pointers ?

kfournier1 I know you aren't asking me the question but let me try to help.

First I would check to see if the tournament will allow Zur. He is banned in the French format (1v1) so if they are going by French rules he wouldn't be allowed. If they do allow him, there shouldn't be an issue.

I would look over everything outofnothing0 has written about this deck and all of the comments. That will give you a general idea of how to play it. He also mentions the issue of how Zur is banned in French. He doesn't play by those rules so this deck isn't an issue with that. You may face the issue if the tournament is going by those rules.

As iAzire pointed out, Zur isn't allowed in French rules, which is what is typically played in commander tournaments.

Also, the build is geared towards 1v1 matchups, so if the tournament is made up of multiplayer pods, you'll have to do some tweaking to maximize its power in a larger matchup.

The tourney is a 1v1 using the multi banlist

And so ends the glorious Partial Paris mulligan, replaced by Vancouver as of January's EDH rules and banlist update.

Aside from a slight increase in land count, how do you plan to compensate for the change? Cut down the curve slightly? Perhaps a few more incidental hand shuffling effects like Timetwister to get rid of the key enchantments that can no longer be mulliganed away?

I haven't yet had a chance to update ZPPoP yet in conjunction with the rules change, but I'm certainly not looking forward to it. It will require severe restructuring to achieve optimization once again, and it will never live up to its former glory.

Have you considered using Standstill? It helps on both the card advantage and control fronts.

I'd recommend Grasp of Fate as a replacement for Oblivion Ring. Does the same thing, except exiles more permanents depending on how many players you're playing against.

Honorable mention, Open the Vaults from m10 or the new commander set.

Overburden could be fun as well.