Gay Marriage Legal
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on June 26, 2015, 11:48 a.m. by -Fulcrum
The Supreme Court has ruled. History has been made.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #3
I don't think discussing this topic on a MtG site will lead to anything good or productive.
June 26, 2015 11:53 a.m.
That's kinda what the Blind Eternities are about. Home of Eldrazi, strife, and hours upon hours of useless debate.
June 26, 2015 11:57 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #5
This community has been under a lot of strain lately and the powers that be have asked for our help. This topic brings out the crazies on both side and will end up resulting in needless drama. There are much more appropriate forums for this discussion imo.
June 26, 2015 12:01 p.m.
MSU_Iced_Z says... #6
I'm with vault. If anything is in the spirit of the Butcher of Truth, it's people discussing this topic on the internet.
June 26, 2015 12:21 p.m.
PasorofMuppets says... #7
Can you explain what you mean by "crazies on both sides"?
(That's pretty ableist by the way)
June 26, 2015 12:24 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #8
Well hey discuss on. If it gets out of hand, call epoch or bell.
June 26, 2015 12:25 p.m.
All men should be created equal...separation of church and state...I think that gives you my answer on the topic
June 26, 2015 12:26 p.m.
It depends on what you think marriage is. If you're from a Christian background, then you believe that God intended marriage between man and woman, and of course will be against it. If not, then you believe that it's a union of love and a bond of trust, and so you'll be for it.
I think most of the opposition to the ruling is just bias from peoples' religious backgrounds. Not hating on religion, but some people forget that, like addaff said, there is a separation of church and state, and, to the judges and outsiders of your religion, what God deems right just doesn't matter to them.
June 26, 2015 12:31 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #11
I have odd personal opinions here.
Yes any person should have the right to legal marriage to anyone they want.
I don't believe in forcing an actual church to do it though. I don't agree with a church turning people away but seperation is seperarion.
I'm non religious by the way. I have no bias
June 26, 2015 12:35 p.m.
nah, im kidding i think it is great america has finally given people its deserved freedoms
June 26, 2015 12:37 p.m.
VampireArmy Well, it's almost hypocritical for the church to do that, in my opinion. The book they worship clearly states that the act that their ordained minister is participating in is against the will of God. So... why should they have to? But that begs the question, how would same-sex marriage go if the church didn't do it?
June 26, 2015 12:38 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #14
Legal documents come from the state not the church. From there you just have the ceremony at a hotel or whatever people do. I'm not sure about anything beyond that as far as details are concerned. I for one will not have a church involved if i were to marry as i stated above. I'm non religious
Some churches interpret it differently. There's no changing how they think. Gotta accept that there are some people in the world who won't accept things.
June 26, 2015 12:43 p.m.
VampireArmy That's very true, which is part of the reason why I'm so driven away from the modern church. The closed-mindedness kills it for me.
Anyway, good job America for owning up to your Constitution for once.
June 26, 2015 12:46 p.m.
So i stumbled upon this and thought i might share it here to see what people think.
http://www.godfruits.tv/they-told-her-god-doesnt-belong-in-america-her-response-sends-chills-down-your-back/?ref=8d623t11a
yea yea. someone teach me how to link
June 26, 2015 12:48 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #18
June 26, 2015 12:49 p.m.
Now, please gay activists, leave the rest of the population alone. I understand this is a great achievement, and I very much respect and praise it, but let's see less of those Gay parades movements everywhere and everyday. Can't even say to one of my male friends they are gay without offending some random person on the street that's actually gay.
June 26, 2015 12:50 p.m.
The-Xellos says... #20
So happy (gay) marriage was illegal. No wonder why most married people were unhappy, they didn't want to break the law.
June 26, 2015 12:52 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #21
JDMCRIB (responce to post 9)
But you're making some blanket assumptions here that not all people adhere to. From your post, I get the feeling that you believe that all people of a christian faith are against same sex marriage. This is certainly not the case. People who come from certain religions do follow this practice, but they also follow the practice of taking every marking in The Bible as the literal word of God. Not all Christians do this. In fact, most people who strictly call themselves Christian do not do this, as they are merely a follower of Jesus the Christ, and do their best to act by his word, having accepted him as their savior and leader of their life.
-
The only instances (that I can recall) of The Bible writing against same sex marriage are in Leviticus; while taking down Levitican Law - which by today's standard is extremely backwards and used as a means of controlling people's lives - viewed by me personally as some man acting as God, instilling his beliefs onto his people; and in Corinthians, where it says that people in homosexual unions will not inherit the kingdom of God (Which by any of our understanding could just mean that they go to limbo forever. I don't personally know, i've never died before).
Anyway, as a Christian, I have zero issue with people wanting to get married in whatever fashion they choose, just as I have zero issue with getting tattoos, wearing clothing made using mixed fabrics, or working on a Sunday. These are just things that Earthly society has come to accept. If you feel bad about it or have ill-will against it, that's your deal, but i'm choosing to love everyone regardless of their life choices because that's what Jesus does. I will do what I can to help guide them, but it is ultimately not my job to "save people from hell", that's an internal deal that each person works out on their own.
So with this in mind, I would like to applaud the US government for taking steps toward making their country a better place, keeping their people on an even footing. Ultimately, being condoning of someone else's life is, in my opinion, just as bad as whatever that other person is doing to offend you because by judging them, you are trying to play God, and that's not your place as a human to do.
June 26, 2015 12:53 p.m. Edited.
MinscAndBoo says... #22
Having never met a gay person who wasn't talented, intelligent and generally awesome? This is a good fuckin' day. Glad to see my country can still bring it.
June 26, 2015 12:56 p.m.
ThatJunkMage I understand that most Christians don't take everything in the Bible literally. But some things in the Bible just aren't open for figurative interpretation. The Bible's stance on same-sex marriage is clear; it's wrong. If you're a Christian and think same-sex marriage is right, then that's a direct violation. In the end it goes back to what you think marriage was made for, and likewise your religious background. Sorry if you took offense to what I said, I admit that I generalized a bit too much.
June 26, 2015 12:58 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #25
Well, I wouldn't say it's really a matter of 'Is this right or wrong', but more 'How does this affect society in general'.
It's fairly established that it isn't correct, but a necessary thing that needs to happen in society. It's how we base our reactions to it happening that really matters. Like I said at the end of my post: I think that it is not right, I don't agree with it, but I am accepting of it because I realize that it is a necessity for life on Earth that people are happy. I'm not going to condone anyone for doing it as it isn't my place to do that, and am happy for them that they (same sex couples looking to get hitched) can now have their way. I very much agree with the anti-closed mindedness mentioned in some of the other posts here. Closed mindedness inhibits growth, and stagnation is one of the worst things that can happen to a society.
June 26, 2015 1:04 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #27
Just to clear things up, I don't have an issue with same sex marriage.
I am not a fan of the Court ruling though. I don't believe the federal government should have any say whatsoever in our relationships or how we define them. Homosexuals did not need validation from me, Joe Blow in San Fran, Nancy Sue in Utah, or Obama. Current laws denying freedom should have been abolished instead of new ones enacted. Alas the financial implications involved complicate things and and legislation provides almost instantaneous gratification in that department. It was much easier to push things through the government by growing it's power than for everyone to collectively take a stand and tell the government to fuck off and not recognize their authority over personal affairs. I understand the logic of how the court applied the Constitution to this case but am concerned it sets poor precedent and have future implications.
June 26, 2015 1:08 p.m.
As a Christian, I think that no Christian person should ever read the Bible literally. Yes, it's a good book, but written by People and not God. I consider myself to be Christian since I listen to whatever Jesus has spoken and still listen to it. But let us not get mistaken by people, that on the past, wanted to control the population, as stated already by the Pope and asked for pardon.
I can't trust the Bible literally, since first it has not been written by Jesus himself, second, it was edited, revised, changed and translated multiple times since it's release. Whatever the original content was it, I'm sure that the fully original content is not there (all the 100% of it).
And I'm sure that probably on the past, some of the higher instructions that Jesus gave, if they were too powerful for normal people to know, they were probably removed from the Bible by the Church on the past, and it may have been lost in the centuries.
I'm a Christian that doesn't trust the Church nor the Bible, because I'm free to do so. Jesus said that nobody goes to the Father except through him, and not through the Church, and I think that if he was alive today, he would not have approved the past Church's action.
Even the current and the past Pope admitted that. I salute this new spiritual Pope, just read his speeches and you'll feel happier that this new Pope is what he is.
June 26, 2015 1:09 p.m.
PhyrexianScience says... #29
I guess I'll give my two cents on this...
Everyone wants everything to be so cut and dry, but that isn't how things are.
Everything; religion, politics, even MTG are what someone makes them to be. Everyone's beliefs are unique and limiting oneself to a specific classification is asinine. You are yourself before you are anything else.
June 26, 2015 1:10 p.m.
PhyrexianScience says... #30
Rasta_Viking29 The states were prohibiting same-sex marriages. The best the feds can do is rule that gay marriage is a right of the people and make a law that prohibits the abridgment of that right. They can't tell the states what to do directly.
June 26, 2015 1:14 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #31
That's interesting. I haven't gotten the chance yet to read into why or how the ruling was passed, but you bring up a good point; that if the government wants to allow the growth of it's people they shouldn't give them more laws that "give them freedom", but strike down ones that inhibit freedom in the first place. I read somewhere once that other countries have a governmental rule that says when a new law is added, some number of laws must be revoked, which I believe is probably just the better way to go about it as to not have a scenario wherein people that think they are free are actually living in a dictatorship of sorts.
Could you (or anyone) list some resources that could go into how the court made the ruling?
June 26, 2015 1:17 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #32
Example of what I was advocating to an extant
Quote from the article: "Despite warnings from Colorado Attorney General John Suthers that the documents aren't worth the paper they are printed on, same-sex couples lined up at the Boulder County Clerk's office Thursday to get marriage licenses.
Clerk and Recorder Hillary Hall began issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples Wednesday after the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals struck down Utah's ban on gay marriage. But in a news release akin to a fraud advisory, Suthers made it clear that the licenses are not valid.
"That's their opinion. We disagree with it," Hall said Thursday morning. "We will be here issuing marriage licenses until a Colorado court or the Supreme Court tells us to desist.""
June 26, 2015 1:25 p.m.
I'm glad this thread is garnering actual discussion and not ridiculous hullabaloo. I'm going to unsubscribe now though. I know my own feelings on the matter, as well as on church and state. I have nothing to contribute.
June 26, 2015 2:01 p.m.
My mindset and point of view:
We ALL travel a trouble-filled road in life. Some roads are shorter, some are longer. Some are bumpier, some are more steady. But we all have our own road to travel.
Do not waste time trying to tell others how to walk their path, for all it is going to do is take your eyes off your own, leaving you with no choice but to walk into a tree or stumble over a stone.
If we want to live a happy life then we need to respect the fact that everyone has a right to believe whatever the hell they want to as long as it doesn't harm others on their own path in life.
That is all.
June 26, 2015 4:21 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 - It is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, that the new law just makes it illegal to pass other laws stopping gay marriage.
So it's not a law like forcing action it's a law that stops other discriminatory laws.
Is that correct?
My point is - is this not like essentially the same as revoking old law? I guess it's not that simple because you need a large federal law to overturn small state law?
June 26, 2015 4:38 p.m. Edited.
Didgeridooda says... #38
This is a decision that should have been brought about in a different way, and much sooner. (whole different argument)
Hopefully they are able to go that route now too. Amending the constitution is the correct way to go about this. I feel this is sort of a band-aid for now, and in a decade or so, there will be an amendment.
June 26, 2015 9:13 p.m. Edited.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #42
ChiefBell no it will add to our constitution, which is the skeleton of our federal government. They're changing it so the legal system can use it as a means to make opposition unconstitutional and same sex marriage legal. Laws that exsist currently within certain states will have to be removed because they are now in violation of the constitution. Basically instead of introducing legislation and letting it run its course through the democratic process they are circumventing it with the supreme court.
June 27, 2015 11:49 a.m.
MSU_Iced_Z says... #43
The third branch of government is not decorative. Saying that using the courts "circumvents" the democratic process shows a pretty fundamental lack of regard for the checks-and-balances system the founders set up in that Constitution you seem so attached to.
June 27, 2015 12:31 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #44
MSU_Iced_Z you don't make sense and seem hostile. Was there a point you were trying to get across?
June 27, 2015 7:07 p.m.
MSU_Iced_Z says... #45
You can't complain about the democratic process being ignored when what happened was one of the branches of government laid out in our democratic constitution doing its job. The Supreme Court enforcing the 14th Amendment is literally the opposite of "circumventing" the democratic process.
June 27, 2015 10 p.m.
Well this is probably what happens when you have two separate approaches to the democratic process.
June 28, 2015 4:06 a.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #47
No this is just another American with no clue about our federal government and political system. Democracy has nothing to do with the judicial branch of the American government.
Democracy: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
The democratic process directly refers to the act of voting and the legislative branch. Laws, actions, and policies are determined by the people through representatives voted on by the people. Senators and Congressmen are what make our goverment a democratically elected republic. The representatives then vote amongst themselves democratically and that's pretty much the end of the line for the "democratic process". We also vote on the head of the executive branch (aka the POTUS) but his role is to execute our orders and carry out the laws created by the legislative branch.
The judicial system is a completely different entity and the ethical back bone of government. The Supreme Court is unique as well. Justices are selected by POTUS and approved by the legislative branch for lifetime appointments virtually free of scrunity. In my opinion the Supreme Court holds the most power of all major players in the federal govt when taking a long term view. They are tasked with applying the constitution to rulings and laws being questioned. When the court adopts a new interpretation of the constitution it sets a precedent that predetermines the outcome of all future challenges to legislation on the matter. The Supreme Court grows its influence and that's how the democratic process is sidestepped.
June 28, 2015 2:07 p.m.
No I understand what you're saying. We have a house of lords which are unelected by the people. The decisions they make are also commonly referred to as undemocratic also. They also have lifetime membership, as you described for those in the judicial system.
Though there are some advantages to having certain positions that aren't totally decided by the people.
It's a very frequent argument about how valid this system is.
June 28, 2015 2:18 p.m.
NoviceMagician says... #49
I thought this thread was just for gay hype......
Woo! Gay marriage legalized!
June 28, 2015 2:30 p.m.
And as always, the side effects start to appear. Here's what you get for allowing the Supreme Court to interfere in the State level legislation.
http://www.naturalnews.com/050237_SCOTUS_gun_laws_same-sex_marriage.html
Servo_Token says... #2
Seems good. Nice job America, I hate you a little bit less.
June 26, 2015 11:53 a.m.