Just MORE Chatting
The Blind Eternities forum
Posted on Feb. 27, 2015, 12:54 p.m. by PreZchoICE1
fresh start. GO
Thats a good example cheif. Pulling away from sexuality- If you cram your face full all the time maybe someone should shame you so you don't die of a heart attack. Whether or not ID is capitalized (I've been doing it so nobody thinks I'm saying I'd) and whether or not Freuds finding hold water, I still agree that humans have a weak nature and without recourse would do alot of things that are WEAK WEAK WEAK. Like physically beat each other in arguments, or become huge fat fatties or sluts or whatever weak path you can dream up.
April 13, 2015 11:59 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #3
If you want to prevent STDs, STIs and pregnancies, you have to teach your children how to have safe sex, otherwise, they are going to do it, not safe. My daughter is perfect evidence for this.
Scorprix, it means non-biological, non-legal, non-adopted.
April 13, 2015 noon
UrbanAnathema says... #4
Cultural discussion aside, Zoo I encourage you to be aware of the culture your child is being raised in. Like it or not, your child is going to be awash in sexual ideas, marketing, imagery, etc. She will be curious and have questions and take the first steps that embark on the inevitable journey of sexual discovery that every human being takes. It will happen sooner than you think, and likely sooner than you will be comfortable with. Thats ok. It would be HUGELY beneficial to make sure your voice is a part of that journey, so that you are a trusted source of knowledge and experience that can help her make the right decisions for herself in the future.
She is not going to stay "innocent" until she is 18. That is a fantasy. Indulging it does you both a huge disservice in the long run.
Just my two cents.
April 13, 2015 noon
VampireArmy says... #5
Femme_Fatale Your daughter is very lucky to have you. A mother who at leasts wants to be there. It's not a mother's place to judge. It's her place to help when needed and to accept it when her child makes their own decisions.
Thank you, and I speak also for my partner who was also raped, for just being there. I hope she realizes there IS a chance to resume some sort of er...."normalcy" < Word used for lack of a better one.
April 13, 2015 12:01 p.m.
Here is an amusing study linking the openness trait to positive emotion and physical strength.
This is an ironic discussion because you're the one currently displaying weakness by arbitrarily following societal norms without any explanation except 'it's weak'. Weak measured by who? Weak how? Because I've never read any correlation between sexuality / other id measures and poor psychological or physical strength.
April 13, 2015 12:02 p.m.
Right, so close-minded "easy" thinking that these people are terrible people for doing their own thing apart from your life isn't weak?
It's so very easy to condemn, especially not knowing people's circumstances. But that sort of judgment makes you weak-minded, because you decided to take the easy path of snap judgment instead of finding out the circumstances and finding the human underneath.
Zoo, you are honestly no better than the people you hate. In fact, you're worse, because they only hurt themselves if anyone. You, by expressing your bigotry, hurt others.
April 13, 2015 12:05 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #9
So am I weak Zoo? Am I some sort of lesser being for following who I am? Am I some sort of pathetic individual who isn't strong enough to make my own decisions in this world?
April 13, 2015 12:06 p.m.
Yo Dekordius, I red 'Condom' instead if 'Condemn'. This comment feels mildly appropriate for this discussion. : )
April 13, 2015 12:07 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
What is this garbage?
First, you're hopelessly naive if you think that the way to protect your child is to shelter them from all forms of development. Unless you provide guidance, your child will turn toward experimentation and culture for information. The way you protect your child is to educate them and put things into context.
And explain to me how our desires make us weak. Explain how we, animals as we are, are somehow morally obligated to repress our development and expression.
April 13, 2015 12:07 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #12
He is a new parent. He will learn the right things to do as he goes. When they are that young, you want nothing more then to shield your child from every conceivable negative.
April 13, 2015 12:07 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #13
Um, it's not to hate on an interesting conversation, but as Scorprix said, this has no definitive answer. You guys could go on arguing for eternity, and honestly, the argument is not making things better, just worst. So you guys should probably calm down and/or talk about something else.
April 13, 2015 12:08 p.m.
Here is a study linking higher openness to higher IQs.
I should explain that openness on the OCEAN scale is a measure of how open you are to fantasies, feelings, and new experiences. It's the one most linked to sex in various key ways.
April 13, 2015 12:09 p.m.
Zoo-Having a history of partners, whether it's a short or extensive list, would not make what you have with your wife any less special except in your own eyes. This Sunday will be my 13th wedding anniversary. Not every moment has been great, hell we went through a 3+ yr separation, but that doesn't mean what we have now isn't very special to us even though some parts of our relationship would be considered "cheaply sold" to you. The point is, the way you value things and the way others value them have no bearing on each other. As a father of 2 teenage boys and another not far off, I agree that sexually related content is way too available to those that are not ready for it. That being said, I disagree that what I have should be considered any less special than what you have just because our histories are likely vastly different. It's not what's in a person's past that makes their relationship special, it's what is currently happening in that relationship. For some, long-term relationships just might not be what they value. Who are any of us, or anybody but the specific individuals that live that way, to say whether that's right or wrong.
April 13, 2015 12:09 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #16
For the record, I have a 6 year old, and we are going to have the talk soon. I have already had buckets of questions that lead up to it, but I am going to try to hold off another year or so if I can.
I am just going to find the right time. When he was younger, I would have never thought this would come so soon. I envisioned 12-13 for that.
April 13, 2015 12:10 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #17
I tend to agree with FAMOUSWATERMELON this is a discussion about cultural morality. There is no definitive answer here, because morality is by nature, subjective. Noone is going to change anyone's minds here about their personal views about the nature of right and wrong.
April 13, 2015 12:10 p.m.
But the thing is - it does have an answer.
People who are more open with regards to sex, their desires etc. are measurably happier, stronger, more confident, typically have higher IQs, typically earn more money, typically have more secure relationships etc etc.
On the flip side those that aren't open are the reverse.
So again, try telling me there isn't a 'right answer'.
April 13, 2015 12:11 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #19
Personally I think puberty is about the right time. Whenever that hits. I think outside of the big warnings about adults and strangers, I think whatever else happens amongst their peers is mostly harmless curiosity.
April 13, 2015 12:12 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #20
ChiefBell It's not the "right answer" because there are still people you have not convinced and who offer different arguments. But guys, let's please stop it.
April 13, 2015 12:13 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #21
I was just saying that I have no issue with Zoo doing what he feels is best for his child. I am not arguing one way or the other on the subject.
April 13, 2015 12:13 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #22
ChiefBell Studies are not a definitive answer to anything and you know that. They provide co-relations and data to derive judgements and conclusions from. Those conclusions and judgements can be varied, and sometimes flawed.
Morality is a subjective concept. Since many people derive their sense of morality from religion, you have a ton of sexually repressive ideas lumped up in the ideas of morality. Thats a cultural issue, and it certainly isn't going to be settled here.
April 13, 2015 12:16 p.m.
Well, ChiefBell, if there's anything close-minded people are resilient to, it's facts and logical thinking.
Honestly, people, I'm beginning to feel like I'm on a condemnation bandwagon of my own. It's fun and all to feel vindicated picking apart someone's close-minded views and argument, but we're not going to change anyone's mind. The only thing we'll accomplish is that feeling of vindication.
I propose we end this session of- to borrow a term from the Quest Magic RPG- intellectual masturbation and move onto more relevant matters.
Like the subject of a trading card game.
April 13, 2015 12:17 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
Parental conviction is not necessarily sufficient justification for anything anymore. The antivaxxers and LGBT-reformists have seen to that.
April 13, 2015 12:17 p.m.
UrbanAnathema - I understand that morality has no right or wrong, but what IS unequivocal is that openness on the NEO or OCEAN correlates to 'better' individuals. There's more than 40 years research on this and these correlations are extremely robust. They remain even if you control for sex differences, age, past trauma, disease etc. Essentially these are more than correlational they're almost certainly causal in some respects.
April 13, 2015 12:19 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #27
As most of us here are not parents, can we please move to another subject? This is a topic that I will not discuss further sorry.
April 13, 2015 12:22 p.m.
thanks Didgeridooda - It does all stem from being a parent. People justify all kinds of things and I do want to shelter my kid from that. Culture these days is amok with reckless masturbatory decisions.
Femme_Fatale - I do disagree with your brand of openness. And I'm more inclined to do so after you post replies like the one you left to jex on my page. It almost looks like you agree with me, blatant sexuality is best left private. But then you post 12 inch long blocks of text that are nothing but.
April 13, 2015 12:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #29
I feel I should point out that a significant reason that I, and I would assume ChiefBell, engage in discussions like this is to challenge and develop my own ideology. It isn't necessitated that a debate is intended to change the mind of the opposite party. Rarely does this happen in academic debates. Typically, such exchanges are for the benefit of the readers and the testing of those advancing the arguments.
April 13, 2015 12:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #30
Reckless? You should probably start qualifying your statements.
April 13, 2015 12:24 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #32
ChiefBell I don't actually disagree with you.
However many people's views on the subject of sexual promiscuity is a moral one. Morality derives at least in some part from religious ideas and dogma, which deviate from fact and science altogether as they are faith based.
Views such as Zoo's aren't going to be something you can disprove. I understand that he's throwing Freud around in an attempt to base his viewpoint in something psychological, and if you're going after that I guess I get your point.
My point though is that despite Zoo pointing at Freud, his opinion and judgements are not based on anything psychological, but based purely on the moral judgements he is making.
April 13, 2015 12:28 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #33
I don't really have the right to request a subject to not be discussed. Could someone please tag me when this convo is over though?
April 13, 2015 12:31 p.m.
I'll qualify them with a story. My sister in law used to live with us and she's massively promiscuous. She was dating a guy that also lived with us for about 3 months. He left for basic training and within a week my sister in law had cheated on him. (because I lived with her I had to hear it). Then because I knew her boyfriend in basic I had to have the conversations with him when he got home. They broke up of course and she started dating a new guy (the one she cheated on him with) and he moved in with us. Well she brought another stray home about 3 months later and it was the same shit all over. Did the same to the next one too- even got a promise tattoo to say she'd be stronger.. didn't keep her out of bed with a coworker.
Not to say that promiscuous is synonymous with cheating. But its an example of weakness. Following your base desires despite a knowledge of the impact on others. If I had ran the town and racked up a hundred notches in my shillelagh my wife would have a hard time feeling like what we have is special. Same in reverse. I'm also glad neither of us have STD's and we have 1 kid between us.
April 13, 2015 12:34 p.m.
Again,.. cheif.. people are massively weak. If you go validating their weak decisions I guarantee you they're going to be happier lol. My sister in law sure as shit would be. Thankfully she has family to tone her down and implement shame.
April 13, 2015 12:38 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #38
Is it not clear to you that dishonesty or subversion are NOT requisites of promiscuity? You're conflating a breath of trust with the freedom to act on desire at no expense to others.
April 13, 2015 12:39 p.m.
@ Epochalyptik- if that's the case, why choose something so elementary as a topic of "should we be open-minded?" or someone so... ahem, unintelligent as Zoo? I mean, the subject of the argument holds his opinion based on feelings, not logic, so he's hardly going to have a good rebuttal to your points. Case in point, the above.
April 13, 2015 12:39 p.m.
I can't be bothered. I've provided evidence showing you that these people are neither emotionally nor physically weak and you're ignoring it. Let that be on your head.
April 13, 2015 12:40 p.m.
"Not to say that promiscuous is synonymous with cheating" But it is an example of weakness. An example of people openly following their base desires.
April 13, 2015 12:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #42
@Dekordius: Passion and emotion are not wholly illegitimate reasons to consider something. You can advance an intelligent argument without yourself being extraordinarily educated or nuanced.
April 13, 2015 12:41 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #43
I'll simplify it.
Why. Is. That. Weakness.?
By what moral metric do you presume to rule natural inclinations as immoral or erroneous?
April 13, 2015 12:43 p.m.
UrbanAnathema says... #44
Zoo I think your mistaking promiscuity as the problem when the problem in the story you are describing is one of honesty.
Also, the whole notion of "implementing shame" as if its some tool to be utilized is just kind of disturbing to me.
April 13, 2015 12:44 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #45
What does the post I put on your profile have anything to do with this? That is something completely different, that is sexualization of characters who don't have anything to do with said sexualization and don't need to be sexualized but still are for the purpose of getting more money. In other words, pointless fan service.
You know what, being trans is about a life of exploration and acceptance. Sexuality is a huge aspect of exploration because a large part of what a trans individual has to figure out is if they wish to have the opposite sex's sexual organs and what kind of surgery they wish to go through. Expressing one's sexuality is a huge aspect of acceptance. If a trans can't express who they are in where they wish to be, then that place is oppressive and not worth even being around.
Finally, teaching your child about the problems of this world are extremely important. Especially if she's female, she needs to learn when to go out and where to go to avoid being a rape victim. It can happen to anyone, and you need to teach them at least the very basics even if you don't tell them why at a very young age. Because otherwise you get shit in the situations like where one of my best friends got raped at the age of 6.
If he's male, you really need to teach him the values of respect towards women, because otherwise there is a high chance that he'll quickly adopt rape culture or just be plain completely disrespectful and abusive towards women.
To complicate things even further, thanks to gender equality, you have to apply both lessons to all genders.
April 13, 2015 12:44 p.m.
Epochalyptik: Granted, but someone in the reverse (ie under-educated and prone to fallacy) is just going to beat you over the head with fallacious arguments and backwards thinking. Perhaps knowledge isn't necessary to advance an intelligent argument, but I'd argue that intelligence- or at least, a solid grasp on logic- generally is. I mean, that's the reason Chief already quit.
April 13, 2015 12:45 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #47
Zoo your fine bud. I find it funny when people who haven't truly experienced parenthood try and talk with authority on the subject. As a parent nothing you are saying is wrong.
There are idiots actively selling sex to kids who haven't hit puberty yet and tons of dolts eating it up. People feel enlightened and righteous championing these morally devoid causes because they are the stark opposite the oppressive religion inspired morals of yesteryears that we all know were trash. These are the same buffoons who support their extreme views with the fact that Fox News holds an equally idiotic but opposing view. IE: Some people are okay with men being whores so women should be able to be them too. That's an idiotic argument plain and simple. How about neither sex gets a pass?
I have a healthy and well defined sexuality. I'm married to a bi-sexual woman who used to dance erotically. We aren't repressed in anyway whatsoever. I have a 7yo daughter. She knows sex is a physical act that happens between adults that can result in a baby. She is aware that some men and women choose to be with the same sex even if she doesn't understand it. Honestly being a parent right now is troubling. We have Sex and the City for tweens, crazies like Miley Cyrus, and the ever present liberal wannabe intellectual douchebag who lacks life experience trying to tell you how to think, feel, and wipe your ass. You really can't filter all of it out and shelter your kid anymore but passively surrendering their innocence is not acceptable.
April 13, 2015 12:48 p.m.
Can we just move on. We have disagreements. Whatever. The world keeps going.
April 13, 2015 12:50 p.m.
slovakattack says... #50
ChiefBell: Correlation does not equal causation. Obviously.
That's the last I'll say on this subject. I'll be back when this conversation is over.
slovakattack says... #1
Scorprix: He shoots, he SCORES!
Seriously guys, I'm with Scorprix on this one.
April 13, 2015 11:58 a.m.