ARTICLE: 1 of Best Kuldotha decks,comparison. Why should get viewed,+1'ed more
Challenges and Articles forum
Posted on Feb. 2, 2012, 9:49 a.m. by mikedh1
ARTICLE:One Of Best Kuldotha Decks Comparison: Why Should get Viewed + 1'ed:
By: Mikedh1
This is an article I am writing. I am writing this article because I have a Kuldotha Goblin Battlecry Pump Artifact Burn Deck:
Named:
KULDOTHA GOBLIN BATTLECRY MOX KOTH CHANDRA MORPH BURN, on the Goblin, Kuldotha, Mon Red, RDW, Aggro, deck hubs.
This deck for some strange reason only has 650 views, and ranking of 4 +1's, compared to many other goblin decks, that are rated 5 to 70. I am not only writing this because of that, but because I truly think the deck is 1 of the best, and that a article breaking down the deck, and doing a comparison with other similar concept, theme, builds, and comparing cards, etc, will help not only show why the deck is 1 of the best, but also to help others to improve upon my deck, and their decks, and make the best Kuldotha Red deck possible.
DECKBREAKDOWN: 63 cards, 22 lands, 19 creatures
Burn: 16: 3 Spikeshot Elder's, 3 Galvanic Blast, 3 Goblin Grenades, 3 Phyrexian Metamorph's, 2 Shrine of the Burning Rage's, 1 Chandra, 1 Koth
Pump: 18: 3 Goblin Chieftains, 3 Goblin Wardriver's, 3 Signal Pest, 3 Metamorph's, 3 Curse of the Stalked Prey, 3 Contested War Zone lands
Goblins: 12, Creature removers: all 16 burn cards, Mana Ramp: 7: 3 Mox Opals, 3 Infernal Plunge's, 1 Koth
Tokens: 3: 3 Kuldotha Rebirths
WHY the deck is 1 of the best:
The deck wins by playing super fast early to mid game, doing well mid game, doing well late game.
Early turn play:
The deck can pull off 19 damage at ultimate extreme best 1st turn, but normally the deck can somewhat somtimes pull of a Wardriver, or a Chieftain, and 3 goblin tokens 1st turn, and a Blast or a Grenade, or a planeswalker 1st turn.
The deck can pull off a 2 turn kill,win, but that is rare. Somewhat some of the time, can drop Wardriver + Chieftain, or Wardriver + 3 goblin tokens, or chieftain + 3 goblin tokens, or 3 goblin tokens + a planewalker, plus a Burn spell, in addition to those.
Turn 3: The deck can do a turn 3 Kill,win, but that is somewhat uncommon. The deck can somewhat almost normally 1 wardriver + 1 chieftain, 1 war driver + 3 goblins, 1 chieftain + 3 goblins, 1 Planewalker + 3 goblins. Plus a burn spell in addition to all of that.
Turn 4: The deck can do a turn 4 kill,win, somewhat almost normally,some to most of the time.
In addition to those things above, the deck's 1 to 3 cmc pump, battlecry, pump creatures, contested warzone land(give +1 to all attacking creatures), Curse of the Stalked Prey(turns all creatures, into Stromkirk Nobles), often produces 3 to 6 3/3's to 6/6's turns 3 to 5
Mid to late game:
Even though the deck is designed to play incredibly,amazingly fast. and to win by turns 3 to 6, the deck has incredible,amazing mid to late game power, during those rare times when the game goes past turn 5, into turns 6 to 8.
There are 4 reasons why the deck does that.
- Pump, Battlecry: with all the Pump,battlecryer's, even a 1 red 1/1 goblin can become a 7/7 goblin mid to late game. This is where the all the pump, and Spikeshot Elder, Truly shine.
- Burn: Burn cards like Grenade, Blast do 4,5 damage, and by themselves, kill of big nasty 4/4, 5/5 creatures. But even if foe has 6/6's to 9/9's, can use spikeshot elder + grenade, or reverberate Blast, grenade, to destroy big nasty creatures.
- Even though they are burn cards, I decided to put them as a separate reason. Chandra, Koth, Shrine of the Burning Rage's. The 2 planewalkers, and 2 shrine's are like ticking timebomb's that can be used either to help out turns 3 to 5, or to either destroy big nasty foe's creatures, or do 5 to 10 damage to finish off foe turns 6 to 8.
- Phyrexian Metamorph. This card is so incredible,amazing in this deck. It synergizes with almost everything in deck, is so interchangeable, and versatile. It effective in both late early game, turns 3,4,5. and late game in turns 6,7,8.
Phyrexian Metamorph also gets rid of legendary creature and artifact permanent, by copying them, and breaking the legendary rule of only 1 legend allowed onto the board at a time.
And all of this is all for 3 colorless mana and 2 life, so even if foe drops something big,nasty or a near win con, on turn 2,3, then can copy it also turn 2,3 easily in this deck.
Comparison vs other highly ranked Kuldotha Goblin decks.
Reinventing Kuldotha: 5000 views, 70 +1's by Metalmagic, on the same hub's as my deck.
I first made my Kuldoth Goblin, Kiln Fiend, Chandra Spitfire, Souleater Standard Deck, back in the Zendikar Block, and then it cycled out. Then about 35 days ago, I made it standard legal again, and started making changes.
While I was making thos changes, I made my deck similar to Reinventing Kuldotha, without realizing it, or even being aware of the reinventing Kuldotha deck. But when I did see that deck during the middle of changing my deck, I thought, this is the most amazing,incredible Kuldotha goblin deck I have ever seen.
The only possible problems I saw with it, was chancelor of the forge, and not enough burn cards, and 4 shrines, instead of 2,3 shrines, and 2,3 Galvanic Blast.
So I decided to see if I could make that deck even more amazing better, then it already was.
The chancelor of the forges are good,great, IF, IF you have 1 in your opening hand, to go with all the other early turn stuff metalmagic's deck does. Otherwise if don't chancelor is a dead card, and a dead card slot, until turns 5,6, when can finally cast it out. Also the chancelor has no synergy to pump, battlecry the other goblins up, and little synergy to produce goblins,tokens, other then its opening hand goblin tokens, and its 7 cmc 3 goblin tokens. Its still a good card in the deck, its just that there are better creature cards, then chancelor to go into chancelor's 3 card slots in that deck.
The other problem is the to many Shrine's. Yeah the Shrines are great for putting foe on a ticking time bomb, But when I did playtesting and sample hands, of the deck, I found that Shrine didnt do enough burn to get rid of 3/3's turns 2,3 and didnt do 4,5 damage to foe turns 2,3, and that Grenade often didnt have a goblin to sac turn 2,3, and found myself wanting to be able to Galvanic Blast foe, or creature for 4 damage for 1 red, without having to sac a goblin, slow down my tempo.
3 Galvanic blast, 3 Grenades, 2,3 Shrine's, an or 2 chandra's, or 2 Koth's, or 1 chandra, 1 Koth, or 4 Galvanic Blast, 3 Grenades, 3 Shrine's, is better then 4 Grenades, 4 Shrines, or 4 Galvanic's, 4 ShrinesAs long as have at the very least 12 artifacts, Galvanic Blast should be mixed with Grenades, Shrine's, Planewalker's.
For the Reason's talked about earlier, Metamorph is way better, and deserving of, and should be in chancelor's card slots. Chancelor can't get rid of a Blight Steel or a Sheoldred, or copy a titan, a dragon, Vorinclex,etc. and chancelor can't pump,battlecry other goblins. But Metamorph can copy a chancelor, and thus put out 3 goblin tokens. This is why Metamorph is a better fit for a Kuldotha Goblin deck, then a chancelor.Heck even Adapative Automaton would be a better fit then chancelor. that said , chancelor is great, and chancelor, Metamorph, and Adaptive Autmaton's, are the best creatures, for those 3 card slots.
Also to back up what I am saying, 2 of the top players in Spokane, WA, 1 nicknamed MR STANDARD by 2,3 store's players, who is a great trader, player, wins a lots of FNM's, Booster drafts, etc, the other 1 who beat the top 10th rated magic player in the tristate region, and is himself, considered 1 of the better to best players in spokane, both said that Metamorph was the best option for the slots, then Adaptive Automaton, and then chancelor, for some of the reasons I just named.
Kuldotha Red Goblin deck, by GMAN, or VMAN, with about 3300 views, and 14 +1's, on the same hub's as my deck(sorry can't remember the exact deck name)
The deck is almost somewhat similar to my deck, and reinventing Kuldotha deck. it has some great Potential, but is just barely, a little tiny bit overated.
It has 4 Chimaeric Masses, which should be replaced with 4 memnites. 4 geosurges, which should be replaced with infernal plunges. and doesnt have enough Burn. He should put in either 3 Spikeshot elders, or 3 Goblin Arsonist. He only has 8 burn cards, which is not enough burn. He has 4 Shrines, and 4 Grenades. He says in his deck description, that's enough burn because of the 2 reverberates.
But thats not the case, for the same reasons I outlined above. He really should replace the 2 reverberates with 2 Chandra's, and turn 1 grenade, and 1,2 shrines, into 3 Galvanic Blast. Also his 22 creatures is to many creatures. 21 creatures at the extreme most is all he should have at extreme most. 19,20 creatures is better though.
He also has 3 chaqncelor's in his deck, and he should turn them into either 3 Metamorph's, or 3 adaptive Automaton's, over his chancelors, for the same reasons, I mentioned above.
As I said, for the same reasons I mentioned before, my deck is probably equal to,or a slight improvement, over these other decks, and 1 of the better decks, at the very least.
But despite that the deck is not getting the views, attention, +1's, comments, Help, etc, that other decks have been getting, and that this deck should be getting.
Maybe some don't like me, maybe some don't think a deck should go over 60.61 cards, maybe some think a deck should have 3,4 of each card. maybe some don't like the $171 price tag of the deck. I am going to address each of these things.
Not liking me:
If people don't like me, that should not affect how a deck is perceived. I dont think this is an issue.
Not going over 60,61 cards, 3,4 of each card:
A single color, 2 color deck, should be as close to 60 cards, as possible, 60 to 64 cards, as long as doesn't mess up a possible effective functioning of the deck. Same with the 3,4 of every card thing, where possible, should try to have 3,4 of as many cards as possible, as long as that doesn't take away from the possible effective functionality of the deck.
For example I run 4 memnite's because its necessary for metalcraft, and for rebirth, Blast, Goblin tokening, swarming,etc. The other card are almost just as important, but if I run 60,61 cards, 3,4 of everything, then my deck would not run as well as it does, because I would have to get rid of the Shrines, and the planewalkers, and possibly 1 other card, that I have 2,3 of.
I could run 61 cards, 21 lands, but then I would have to take out either 1 memnite, or 1 Mox Opal, or 1 Infernal Plunge. doing those things would mess up the deck's early game effectiveness, because mox opal, memnite, infernal plunge wouldnt come out and happen as often, which would make the early turn stuff not happen as often, which would cause the deck to be less effective.
I could also go with 64,65 cards, 23 lands, instead of 63 cards, 22 lands, but I dont need to do that to make sure I have enough of each card to be effective, and going with 65 cards, 23 lands, would probably cause my deck to be less effective. So whether its less cards, or more cards, or 2,3 of every card, or 3,4 of every card, you do what is needed to make the deck more functionally effective, whether thats 2,3 of every card, or 3,4 of every card, whether thats 60,61,63,65 cards. My deck is very effective, and if I changed the numbers of each card, or ran 60,61 cards, or 64,65 cards, my deck just wouldnt be as effective.
So really get past the newbie school thought of 60 cards, 4 of each card thing, and learn that its ok to have less then 3,4 cards, or more then 60,61 cards, and that there are always exceptions to the rule of thumb rules.
Deck's $171 cost,price.
Some don't like any Goblin deck thats to expensive money wise. They think that if a Goblin Deck or any deck is to expensive moneywise, that all the player did was just haphhazardly just obnoxiously pay a lot of money,put a deck together, and that it didnt take any thought, skill,etc to make the deck. Because of that some people punish decks, players, by not viewing,commenting,helping, +1'ing any deck they think is to darn expensive, moneywise.
Well I did take some thought in building my deck, and didnt just haphazardly throw the deck together.
Also that leads to another thing, some may think that I am just doing a copy,derivative of another persons deck. Yes my deck is similar, a somewhat derivative of other's similar decks.
That doesnt mean that I just simply copy paste, and net deck.
As I said before I originally made most of my deck back in the zendikar block, and I didnt copy, netdeck etc.
And then when I made it standard legal again about 35 days ago, I didnt copy,paste,net deck then. And when I did eventually notice metalmagic's great awesome deck, I just didnt copypaste,net deck most of his deck to do a derivative of his deck. My deck was already somewhat to almost very similar to his deck, and so I tried to improve upon his deck, and my similar deck, using my deck, and his deck as a referenced derivatived template, and then started trying to find better cards, that would fit,be better.
So as I said, and as anybody should be able to see, for all the reasons,logic, I used above, my deck should probably be, and is probably better, improved upon, this and other similar decks, and is, or should probably be, probably is 1 of the better best decks of its kind,theme,concept,etc, and therefore, should get more views, comments, help, +1's,etc then just 650 views, and 4 +1's, relative to the average 1000 views, and 6 to 8 + 1's others have been getting.
So view my Kuldotha Goblin Deck, and compare it to other Kuldotha Goblin Decks, using what I have said here in mind.
Hopefully by doing that, that will help create the best kuldotha Goblin Deck possible.
Which I am sure will end up being someone else's deck, as it probably will be a just a matter of time, before someone improves upon, and better's my deck, metalmagic's reinventing Kuldotha deck, and Gman's or Vman's Goblin deck, just like I did with Metalmagic's Reinventing Kuldotha deck.
So view, +1 my, and other similar decks, compare it to other similar decks, and use my, and other similar decks, and try to improve upon,better mine, and other's similar Kuldotha Goblin decks.
Anyways Hope this article was informative, interesting, and that it wasn't to wordy, lengthy, error filled, redundant,etc.
End of Article.
Now that the article is over, I open the discussion floor.
Please feel free to please comment,discuss the article, the decks, the comparison's, the cards, Kuldotha Goblin decks, ask questions, ask for help with Kuldotha Goblin deck builds, help answer other's questions, deck builds, post Kuldotha Goblin deck builds.
Please be respectful, please no trolling, no flaming, please no grammar, spelling nazi's, please no off topic comments.
Note: having a different opinions,disagreements of understanding, perception of reasons, logic, facts, truths, etc, is not trolling and flaming
Also please don't just say I am right, everybody else is wrong, but rather please try to convince, persuade other thru logic,facts, explaining why,etc.
thanks
Mike DH
mikedh1
I would mark it up for you, but I found the how to do mark up thing confusing, and thus I don't know how to do marking up, and don't do mark up.
Also I don't know how to edit a posted article, because I dont see a clickable edit button, otherwise, I would edit for mistakes,etc.
So if you can either show me how to edit the posted article I wrote, and how to mark it up, then if I understand, then I would glady mark up, link the cards.
Or if you want to mark up,link the cards,edit for spelling,grammatical mistakes, and then publish the article, that would be ok,great to.
thanks for the comment, offer, help.
Mike DH
February 2, 2012 10:55 a.m.
Instead of thinking of losing cards when you cut to 60, try thinking of what is most important. IMO, Chandra should be taken out. An extra koth is more efficient, because in a lot of cases, it can give the final push by hitting your opponent with a powerful 5/4 or 6/4 land. Chandra has to sit a turn for it to work properly. So lose her over Koth. Then you have your Phyrexian Metamorph. I'm not saying it is a bad card, I'm just feeling for this style of deck, there are better options. Why not just use Traitorous Blood? It kinda does what metamorph does, but better, and quicker. Yes you can't copy a Goblin Chieftain with it, but you can effectively STEAL a creature FTW. It would remove their blocker, and give the creature, as opposed to Metamorph, Haste and Trample. It could make that Sun Titan your opponent has a game ender, in stead of you "trading" yours off with his.
February 2, 2012 11:16 a.m.
A problem I see with cards like Traitorous blood, and act of treason's etc, it's a temporary thing. Also stealing targets, whereas copying does not target, so things like hexproof, and Blightsteel will prevent stealing, but wont prevent copying.
Also Traitorous blood is not faster. its cost 3 mana. Metamorph cost can cost 3 mana as well.
Also turning the 3 metmorph's into 3 traitorous bloods, takes the creature count down to 16 which can be bad.
And it would cause the artifact count to go from 15 artifacts, down to 12 artifacts, which would in turn cause Galvanic blast to be a lot mnore likely to do 2 damage instead of 4, and for Kuldotha Rebirth to be less effective, and for mox opal to not achieve metalcraft.
Also the metamorph copies artifacts as well, something Traitorous blood doesnt do.
Also Traitorous blood is a temporary thing, where Metamorph Permanently copies. Yeah with T blood, you take away foe's creature, but then by end of turn your back to the problem.
With metamorph, you copy foe's creature, then burn, or ratchet bomb foe's creatures away. Or if the foe's creature or artifact, is a legend,then you copy make it go away.
Traitorous blood, just isn't that versatile,permanent,fast, good, etc, as metamorph is.
Its a good card, but it just isnt as good fit for the deck, as metamorph is.
I rank the following cards fit wise to use up 3 slots in either my deck, reinventing kuldotha deck, and other decks.
- Metamorph. 2. Adaptive Automaton 3. chancelor of the forge, 4. trsitorous blood, act of treason.
Koth vs Chandra. Your overlooking Chandra's -2 reverberate ability, which make 6 tokens with rebirth, or 10 damage with Grenade, or 8 damage with Galvanic Blast.
Basically I am happy with, and if either chandra, or koth comes out, turns 3,4,5. If Koth comes out, then I just use it for a 4/4, or more mana, or pop off its burning emblem.
If Chandra comes out, then I either use its 1 damage thing combined with Spikeshot Elder, to clear,control foe's board, or I -2 reverberate Rebirth, Blast, Grenade.
I just get so much benefit if either 1 of those 2 planeswalkers come out, in chandra, koth.
And they come out earlier, and more often then you think.
The only possible thing that could possibly be bad about chandra, is if you don't have creatures to protect her. but that shouldnt be a problem in a goblin deck. I usually have lots of goblins out to protect chandra.
but Koth does help with that problem. They really compliment each other well, in this deck.
February 2, 2012 12:04 p.m.
Regarding "metalcraft". First of all, turn 3 is too late for Mox Opal to be useful. If you are sacrificing artifacts for Kuldotha Rebirth, the ideal targets are Memnite, Signal Pest, and Mox Opal. Almost every time, a Phyrexian Metamorph copy of anything will be more important than 3 1/1's. Also Traitorous Blood is faster. If you take that Sun Titan, you can swing that turn, AND without a Sun Titan blocking you. If something like that can't deal lethal damage, you're going too slow. The fact that the Blood would be better, is that when you use it, YOU WON'T HAVE A NEXT TURN TO DEAL WITH IT. Because you could have won. Ratchet Bomb is too slow for anything. It's only real use is sweeping board on a token deck. And it is not a matter if the Planeswalkers complement each other. Running 1 of each means you have pretty much no way to get both out at once. It is just a matter of which is better. And if you want the Reverberate ability, why don't you just use Reverberate? It is cheaper.
February 2, 2012 1:23 p.m.
If you copy an opponents creature with Phyrexian Metamorph, then Ratchet Bombing it will also kill your creature since its a copy of the card.
February 2, 2012 3:30 p.m.
So... I start reading this article... LOL 63 CARDS. Kid. Just no.
February 2, 2012 4:04 p.m.
@xo2 no wrong, since the metamorph's cmc is 3,4 not 5 to 8 cmc of the creature copied. Ratchetbomb destroys creatures equal to the cmc of the number of counters on ratchetbomb. And you missed the point I was making, which is that there are many ways to copy a creature, then destroy the creature you just copied, even in my Kuldotha deck.
@at Tian, so your another newbie school player who follows the newbie thought school, instead of the OLD SCHOOL days when 60 to 80 card decks consistently won turns 1,2,3, and which would rip todays 60 card standard decks apart.
Also I gave legit,logical,valid reasons, when its ok to have more then 60 cards, as an exception to the rule, and that when doing so to stay as close to 60 cards, as possible, without messing up deck.
And do you read those reasons, and or say why you think its never ever ok to have more then 60 cards? no.
Instead you just stupidly see that there is more then 60 cards, immediatly stop reading, then troll,flame away saying lol haha you suck, because you have 63 cards, lol haha. At least thats what your post seems to imply.
You know I have really enjoyed consistently beating all those 60 card decks, at every FNM I goto with my RG 64 card 23 land, Land destruction deck, that has 145 comments, 2500 views and 17 +1's
So lol haha at the 60 card no matter what newbie school newb.
from the 1996 old schooler
February 2, 2012 5:26 p.m.
Yeah only admin can edit comments.
And the markup and card links are really easy, oh well
February 2, 2012 5:27 p.m.
Miasma: Your taking 1-3 reasons out of context, overlooking reasons, etc. And its the culmination,cumaltive combination of all the synergistical versatile reasons why metamorph is better.
Metalcraft: Opal: Morph can come out turn 2, and turn 3 metalcrafted opal, can produce a 1 mana for 4 mana turn 3.And I would sac a copied wardriver, if doing so would give me 3 to 6 pumped gobliu tokens. And metalcrafted Galvanic blast does 4 damage for 1 red(don't forget that)
Also 6 cmc 5/5's, 6/6's, can come out turn 3, 1,2 turns before a stolen creature can finish, foe. And turning 3 morph's into 3 T bloods, would be 16 creatures instead of 19, and not enough creatures, especially not in a goblin deck which needs more then 15,16 creatures, to swarm, pump.
ratchetbomb would work if dropped turn 1. But thats beside the point. Elders, chandras, koth's, Blast, Grenades, Shrines easily combine nicely easily to destroy creatures that are copied by Morph.
Also every good player I have talked to except you,(assuming your a good player) says that Morph is better. If someone told metalmagic to turn his 3 chancelor's, into 3 Traitorous Blood's he would laugh. If someone told him to turn 3 chancelor's into 3 morph's or even 3 Automaton's he wouldnt laugh.
And if metalmagic turned his 3 chancelor's into 3 T bloods, it would totally ruin his reinventing kuldotha deck. And since my deck is somewhat similar, if I did the same, and turned 3 morph's(since I run 3 morph's instead of 3 chancelor's), into 3 T blood's, it would also ruin my deck, by not having enough creatures, having less artifacts for metalcraft for GALVANIC BLAST, and opal, and rebirth, not being able to copy foe's or my artifacts, creatures, no being able to copy a pump, battlecry creature. Morph is a HUGE reason why I am able to produce 3/3's to 7/7's by turns 3 to 7.
Its not just any 1 of these reasons why Morph is better. Perhaps you could make a case against morph on any 1 reason, but not on all of these reasons combined, which show that if I used T blood, over morph it would ruin my deck.
February 2, 2012 5:58 p.m.
Sorry squire, I shouldnt have trolled,the troller,flamer back.
that said he does follow the newbie school train of thought, and so is a newbie since he follows that newbie school train of thought.
most people dont think of that as name calling.
But man if thats name calling, there is a heck of a lot worse, that even ha[ppens on these boards.
But 2 wrongs dont make a right. So if a next time comes, I will try not to troll a troller flamer back, and try not to call someone a name like a newbie.
So sorry
Mike DH
February 2, 2012 6:05 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #14
I'm not saying this to be confrontational, so take it as advice from one user to another.
To be honest, I think the lack of views and ratings on your deck has more to do with presentation and promotion than anything else.
For example, I'd be less inclined to click on a deck link that is just a mashup of card names typed in all capitals than I would a deck link that is cleanly presented and uniquely named.
Featuring and cycling your deck and personally asking for help are other ways to get yourself views and ratings.
It also seems kind of petty to promote your deck as one of the best and demand more attention for it, but in the same breath call others' decks overrated and critique them (especially when they have higher ratings and more views). Making yourself sound approachable will in turn cause people to believe you are approachable. I'm not saying your deck is superior or inferior to similar builds, but I definitely sense a bitter tone in your writing.
February 2, 2012 6:08 p.m.
I follow the same way of thought usually. I try to get things to the 60 amount and I have played since alpha. It's not a noob thing, it's a probabilistic statistics thing.
And while the decks of old would wipe the floor with standard decks of today, the reason for that is because half the cards i used back then are banned or restricted in any format now. Without those cards many vintage decks can lose to many standard decks. Especially if the vintage deck can't get the cards it needs because it has other stuff in it. An 80 card deck was even silly when I started playing.
February 2, 2012 6:11 p.m.
Miasma: Chandra vs reverberate
Thye reason why chandra is better then reverberate, is that with reverberate you can only get to use reverberate once. Now I know the counter to that is that if cast a reverberate, might not need reverberate again.
The thing is though, is not always does plan A work. and need a plan B.
Sure plan A would be to win by turn 3, or by stealing a foe's creature, and slapping them for 6 for the win, or reverberating a grenade for 10 and the win.
But plan A's dont always work. Not because the deck doesnt work, but because of maybe a bad draw, other unforeseen reasons.
Thats why you need other back up plans.
Now I know that chandra cost 4 mana, but can still get it out turn 3.
And its not just chandra's reverberate. Chandra's 1 point of burn each turn, combined with Spikeshot's 1 to 5 burn, or a grenade, or a Galvanic blast, or a shrine, can easily combine to easily destroy a creature.
And also if drop chandra, turns 2,3,4, then can pop off chandra's ability to deal 6 damage to foe and 6 damaqge to all of foe's creatures, by turns 5,6,7 to win the game.
And also I am probably not going to use reverberate until about the time a chandra would come out anyways.
Also if I go with 2 reverberates, then I dont,wont get to use Koth's abilities, which again will give me a 4/4, more mana and a emblem that will do 1 burn for each mountain controlled.
Also the chandra, and Koth draw so much hate for baitswitching vs control decks. I want control decks to waste their hate on chandra, koth.
Also there is the pyschological effect on your opponent, when they see you drop a chandra,koth on turns 1,2,3.
that said 2 koth's or 2 chandra's, and 2 reverberates, while not better alternatives necessarily, are almost as good,equal to and or as good,equal to running 1 chandra, 1 Koth.
Its just that with 1 chandra, and 1 koth, as long as 1 of them come out, its usually all good.
If I run 2 reverberates, then there will be times when I wished I had a koth,chandra, and if I had 2 chandra's I will wish I had a koth. And if I had 2 koth's, I will wish I had 2 chandra's or 2 reverberates.
So thats why I run 1 chandra, and 1 koth.
February 2, 2012 6:33 p.m.
Epoch I think you misunderstood part of my article.
I and others(like Fatty, and leo, and joel, who are some of the better players in spokane(fatty is known as mr standard, leo and fatty are considered 2 of the better players in spokane. Joel was a magic judge, and will be judge again soon), think my goblin deck is comparitive,equal to, and or just barely slightly better, improved upon the better goblin decks here.
that said I didnt just cry, complain,scream, demand that others view my deck, +1 it,etc
rather I explained why I and others, think that, and used logical,reasonable, valid,legit, reasons.
Then I did a comparison of decks, and a comparison of cards.
Most sour grape players dont do all that. Also by doing a breakdown of my deck, and a comparison of decks, and cards, and asking players to view,compare the decks, helps players to understand not only my deck better, but the other decks better, and the kuldotha goblin better, to be better able to build the best Kuldotha Goblin decks possible.
Also I did say that the reinventing Kuldotha deck is 1 of the best decks I had ever seen, and thats why I tried to improve upon it.
And Gman's Kuldtoha goblin deck is just barely slightly overated. and I didnt just say that, I explained why. Some decks that are highly rated are worth that rating, and some that are highly rated are not.
You just said yourself that presentation, and promotion goes a long way, which is why some decks that are well presented,promoted,that are highly rated can be overated.
all that said, thanks for the rest of your comment, as the rest of your comment is helpful. I will try to present, promote my deck in a better way, in the various ways you talked about.
So I am not a bitter sour grapes player writing a bitter sour grapes article.
Now it would be nice to have a discussion about kuldotha rebirth, goblins decks, cards, instead of sour grapes accusations.
So please lets follow miasma's good example of kuldtoha decks,cards discussion
thanks miasma, and thanks epoch for your comments on presentation,promotion, and kuldotha deck, cards discussion.
Mike DH
February 2, 2012 7:05 p.m.
Squire the key wording you used was "try to get to 60 cards, or close to 60 cards.
Yes 60 cards, is better overall probability wise overall, as a general rule of thumb.
But there are some uncommon times when there are uncommon exceptions to the general rule of thumb.and altho good probability at 60 cards is important, there are times when its more important to have certain cards, at a certain probability, and if having 60 cards, means cutting either those certain cards, or number of cards, that are needed for the deck to be effective, then its better to have more then 60 cards to be effective.
But if going to do that is best to stay as close to 60 cards as possible, and the closer to 60 cards, the better.
An example: my land destruction deck is 1 of the best land desrtuction decks in standard., and its a 64 card, 23 land deck.
if I went with 60 cards, I garantee you that my deck wouldnt be as effective, as iot is now.
Also my Kuldotha Goblin deck plays very effectively, at 63 cards and 22 lands.
if I went to 60 cards, I would havge to take out 2 lands, and either 1 of 4 memnites, or 1 of 3 mox opal's, or 1 of 3 infernal plunges.
that would manascrew me at 20 lands. 33% mana, and also ruin my early turn,game stuff, and or maybe even my ability to get to metalcraft, with opal, Galvanic blast.
And if I took out the memnite, I might not have enough creatures with 18 creatures.
thats why my deck runs better at 63 cards, 22 lands, instead of 60,61 cards, 20,21 lands.
but in general your right though.
Also the 80 card decks were often the rare zillion counterpell control decks, back then.
Most decks ran 60 to 69 cards, back then.
February 2, 2012 7:26 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #19
I understand the reasoning behind the article (I'm actually a bit impressed that someone invested time to write a full dissertation on a deck), I'm just cautioning you that people tend to remember negative impressions better than positive ones. It's also kind of taboo to say that someone should make their deck a bit more like your own, especially in a public article.
February 2, 2012 8:47 p.m.
What Epochalyptik said, all the way. Mike, the way you type/write doesn't look in the least bit mature, and I find it very hard to believe that you've been around this game as long as you say you have.
Just sayin'
February 2, 2012 9:14 p.m.
You know... as a person who ran Kuldotha for a while in current standard, this article really attracted my attention. I first started using Kuldotha because I had just recently returned to Magic and I knew it was cheap, easy and effective.
With that being said, I'd like to address the beginning of your article...
You seem to be unsure as to why your deck does not have as much traffic. Well, that's simple. Your deck, most likely, was submitted on this webpage post-the-other-kuldotha-decks. Yes, you may have brought new ideas. Yes, there is a possibility that your deck is more efficient in some ways according to your meta or point of view. However, you posted your deck after the fact. It's just like every damned delver deck ever posted since it's release. People lose interest in commenting. They may at first comment on them, but after you've seen one Delver deck.. well.. you've seen them all.
Now, I would like to address your actual deck with my own OPINIONS (they are that and only that).
The problem I ran into, with a deck similar to your own, was I never had any card draw. After turn 3-4 I was out of cards and top decking. Now, if my initial hand had all the key components, that was a good thing. However, you can only mulligan so much. It wasn't until I started bringing card draw to the deck, did I see any positive results. I have used nearly every card you have in your deck to some degree in mine. I would always rotate cards in or out each week to keep it interesting, but thing always made the difference for Kuldotha, CARD DRAW.
As for compliments, the flexibility your deck provides is very good. You have sufficient answers in your SB for most encounters and your MB is strong enough to setup some devastating early game.
Here is a link to my deck: Kuldotha Deck Wins
I haven't used it in a while, but just commenting on your page makes me want to break it out for my first post-DKA FNM this week >.<
Oh and +1 for the gobbers!!
February 2, 2012 10:05 p.m.
It seems... someone has copied my deck name!!! BLASPHEMY!
deck:kuldotha-deck-wins-6
There, that is the correct link!! Grrrr
February 2, 2012 10:10 p.m.
Thats a very good constructive comment Populous. Thanks for the comment.
What you and epoch said about presentation, promotion, and what you said about "seen a goblin deck, seen them all" makes very good sense.
And your right that my deck was posted about 4.5 weeks ago, after a lot of the higher ranked,rated decks, had probably been posted 2 to 4 month's earlier. And players are probably tired of Goblin decks. Thats also probably why I have seen a lot of low ranked goblin decks.
Also your appraisal of my deck, and its strength's and weaknesses, is right on.
my deck does have problems with bad draws, lack of card draw. But the problem with fixing that problem, is that to my knowledge, only desperate ravings, ichor wellspring, panic spell bomb, fixes the problem, and there either just barely no room in deck, or only room for 2 card draw cards at best.
So I have tried to make the deck so well, interchangeable, versatile, flexible, so that it wouldnt really matter what was drawn. That said, I still have bad draw, and top decking problems, turns 4,5,6. But that has mislead some to think deck isnt as effective turns 5,6,7,8, because of that, and that it runs out of steam. Well the deck does a better job then most of its kind, at mid to late game power.
About the only thing I can think, that I might be able to fit in the deck is 2 panic spellbombs for taking out either 1 memnite, and 1 grenade, or 1 memnite and 1 Galvanic Blast, and or 1 metamorph and 1 Blast or Grenade, or 1 blast or grenade, and 1 infernal plunge, or 1 mox opal.
I am leaning towards turning 1 grenade, and 1 memnite, for 2 panio spellbombs, 3 galvanic blast, 2 grenades, 2 Shrine's, 15 burn, 16 artifacts.
So what card draw cards, woould you add, and how would you add them, what would you take out for the 2,3 card draw cards.
Also just curious, why does your deck say its standard, when it has bushwhackers,lightening bolts, that cycled out of standard, unless DKA reprinted them.
thanks for the help.
February 2, 2012 11:41 p.m.
Thats a very good constructive comment Populous. Thanks for the comment.
What you and epoch said about presentation, promotion, and what you said about "seen a goblin deck, seen them all" makes very good sense.
And your right that my deck was posted about 4.5 weeks ago, after a lot of the higher ranked,rated decks, had probably been posted 2 to 4 month's earlier. And players are probably tired of Goblin decks. Thats also probably why I have seen a lot of low ranked goblin decks.
Also your appraisal of my deck, and its strength's and weaknesses, is right on.
my deck does have problems with bad draws, lack of card draw. But the problem with fixing that problem, is that to my knowledge, only desperate ravings, ichor wellspring, panic spell bomb, fixes the problem, and there either just barely no room in deck, or only room for 2 card draw cards at best.
So I have tried to make the deck so well, interchangeable, versatile, flexible, so that it wouldnt really matter what was drawn. That said, I still have bad draw, and top decking problems, turns 4,5,6. But that has mislead some to think deck isnt as effective turns 5,6,7,8, because of that, and that it runs out of steam. Well the deck does a better job then most of its kind, at mid to late game power.
About the only thing I can think, that I might be able to fit in the deck is 2 panic spellbombs for taking out either 1 memnite, and 1 grenade, or 1 memnite and 1 Galvanic Blast, and or 1 metamorph and 1 Blast or Grenade, or 1 blast or grenade, and 1 infernal plunge, or 1 mox opal.
I am leaning towards turning 1 grenade, and 1 memnite, for 2 panio spellbombs, 3 galvanic blast, 2 grenades, 2 Shrine's, 15 burn, 16 artifacts.
So what card draw cards, woould you add, and how would you add them, what would you take out for the 2,3 card draw cards.
Also just curious, why does your deck say its standard, when it has bushwhackers,lightening bolts, that cycled out of standard, unless DKA reprinted them.
thanks for the help.
February 2, 2012 11:42 p.m.
Thats a very good constructive comment Populous. Thanks for the comment.
What you and epoch said about presentation, promotion, and what you said about "seen a goblin deck, seen them all" makes very good sense.
And your right that my deck was posted about 4.5 weeks ago, after a lot of the higher ranked,rated decks, had probably been posted 2 to 4 month's earlier. And players are probably tired of Goblin decks. Thats also probably why I have seen a lot of low ranked goblin decks.
Also your appraisal of my deck, and its strength's and weaknesses, is right on.
my deck does have problems with bad draws, lack of card draw. But the problem with fixing that problem, is that to my knowledge, only desperate ravings, ichor wellspring, panic spell bomb, fixes the problem, and there either just barely no room in deck, or only room for 2 card draw cards at best.
So I have tried to make the deck so well, interchangeable, versatile, flexible, so that it wouldnt really matter what was drawn. That said, I still have bad draw, and top decking problems, turns 4,5,6. But that has mislead some to think deck isnt as effective turns 5,6,7,8, because of that, and that it runs out of steam. Well the deck does a better job then most of its kind, at mid to late game power.
About the only thing I can think, that I might be able to fit in the deck is 2 panic spellbombs for taking out either 1 memnite, and 1 grenade, or 1 memnite and 1 Galvanic Blast, and or 1 metamorph and 1 Blast or Grenade, or 1 blast or grenade, and 1 infernal plunge, or 1 mox opal.
I am leaning towards turning 1 grenade, and 1 memnite, for 2 panio spellbombs, 3 galvanic blast, 2 grenades, 2 Shrine's, 15 burn, 16 artifacts.
So what card draw cards, woould you add, and how would you add them, what would you take out for the 2,3 card draw cards.
Also just curious, why does your deck say its standard, when it has bushwhackers,lightening bolts, that cycled out of standard, unless DKA reprinted them.
thanks for the help.
February 2, 2012 11:43 p.m.
Sorry for the tripple post everybody. I didnt notice there was a 2nd page, and was wondering why the post wasnt showing up on the 1st page, and tripple posted the comment, before I saw that there was a 2nd page.
sorry about that.
February 2, 2012 11:48 p.m.
Changed Deck name to: Koth Chan Morph Mox Eld Fire Gob Chief's Battlecry
Turned 1 Curse of stalked prey and 1 Grenade, into 2 Panic Spellbombs.
Deck Breaqkdown list update:
Burn: 15: 3 G blast, 2 Grenade's, 2 Shrine's, 1 Chandra, 1 koth, 3 Spikeshot elders, 3 Metamorphs
Pump: 17: 3 Chieftains, 3 Wardriver's, 3 signal Pest, 3 Metamorph's, 2 curse of the stalked prey's, 3 contested Warzone's
Goblin's: 12: 3 Elders, 3 chiefs, 3 wardrivers, 3 metamorphs
Artifacts: 17:4 memnites, 3 pest, 3 Metmorph's, 2 Shrine's, 2 Panic Spellbombs, 3 Mox opals
Mana Ramp: 7: 3 Mox Opals, 3 infernal Plunges, 1 Koth
tokens: 3: 3 Kuldotha rebirth's
card draw, misc: 2: Panic Spellbombs.
Also posted this on the deck page, as well as here.
Thanks for the your comment, about lack of card draw Populous, you were right on.
The deck plays a little bit better with the card draw of Panic Spellbomb. Plus Panic Spellbomb, makes it so that if I am not able to destroy a creature with burn, I can make it so that creature can't block with panic Spellbomb.
Also the 2 Panic Spellbombs give me 2 extra artifacts for 17 total artifacts to help get to metalcraft, for K rebirth, Opal, G blast.
And I have only 1 less burn, but still have 3 G blast, 2 Grenades, 3 elders, 3 metamorphs, 1 koth, 1 chan for 15 total burn cards, which should still be enough burn.
And altho I lost a pump card in 1 curse of the stalked prey, I have so much pump, that the 2 left over curse of the stalked preys, and other pump, should still be enough to pump the goblins up big.
So thanks.
Mike DH
February 3, 2012 9:37 a.m.
That link I gave you was incorrect. There are 6 decks with the same name as mine. I've changed the name. Here is the valid link: (KDW) Kuldotha Deck Wins
Also, I have made changes to it and I'm taking it to FNM tonight! :D
As for your deck,
Card Draw:
Panic Spellbomb : I really like the synergy this card has with the Kuldotha playstyle, however, it isn't my first choice.
Ichor Wellspring : This is my first choice for card draw. 2 mana for 1 card, and potential 3 goblins + 1 more card for a total of 3 goblins, 2 cards at a cost of 3 mana. In my opinion this is the best bet for Kuldotha. Plus, I believe they are a better choice to help with metal craft, because you have a lower chance of losing this artifact. Panic Spellbomb has more aggro as oposed to Wellspring.
As for what I would change to your deck, I'll review it later tonight and see if I can come up with any solid suggestions. I'm off to FNM atm. So, good luck with your deck and I hope that I have been helpful!
February 3, 2012 5:11 p.m.
Changes: After looking thru a lot of kuldotha goblin decks, and talking to some good players,friends,etc I decided to make the following changes.
I am adding 2 or 3 chancelor of the forge's. I am at least going to run 2 of them, by taking out 1 Goblin war driver, leaving 2 behind, and 1 Metmamorph, leaving 2 behind.
Then to give the deck a chance to get chancelor out 1st turn, 2nd turn, early game etc. I took out the 2 panic spell bombs and put in 2 geosurges(4 red to produce 7 red).
I know that hurts the draw, but it makes it worth the risk,gamble of a bad draw, for the explosive power early,and late game's.
Also I can reverberate the geosurge for 14 mana, which is why since I have 2 geosurges, and a big fatty in chancelor, why I turned the koth, into a 2nd chandra. I don't need a 4/4 from Koth now, and I can get more mana from geosurge reverberated by chandra. And with Koth I can't get out Chancelor 1st turn, like can with Geosurge.
And with Koth, I have to wait long for ability to burn, where with chandra I can start doing burn damage right away, and then finish foe off later.
So thats why I am going with 2 chandra's over 1 of each or over koth.
I playtested the changes, and my deck destroyed a very good tempered steel deck, 3 out of 4 games. in 1 game I got out chandra turn 1, and in another game turn 2.
The only question I have now is whether to go with 2 or 3 chancelor's
In another posting I will show the new decklist of changes, to help anybody that wants to help,talk about, figure out, whether to go with 2 chancelors, or 3, and if 3 how to stick the 3rd chancelor in.
February 5, 2012 8:12 p.m.
Chandra Morph's Chancelor's Fire Goblin Battlecryer's Kuldotha Goblin deck, by mikedh1
Creatures: 19:
Pumpers: 8:
3 Goblin Chieftain's, 3 Signal Pest, 2 Goblin Wardrivers
Burn: 3: 3 Spikeshot Elders
Tokens: 2: 2 Chancelor of the Forge's
Copying: 2: 2 Metamorphs
Noncreatures: 22:
Sorceries,instants: 10:
Burn: 5: 3 Galvanic Blast, 2 Goblin Grenades
Mana Ramp: 3 infernal plunges, 2 geosurges
Artifacts: 14:
Creatures: 9: 4 Memnites, 3 Signal Pest, 2 Metamorph
Mana ramp: 3: 3 Mox Opals
Burn: 2: 2 Shrine of the burning Rage's
Enchantments: 2
Pumpers: 2:
Curse of the stalked prey
Planewalkers: 2
Burn, reverberation: 2:
Chandra the Firebrand
Lands: 22
12 Mountains
3 Rootbound Crags
3 Contested Warzones
2 Inkmoth Nexus
2 Ghost quarters
Thinking of maybe, maybe not turning either 1 signal Pest or 1 memnite into 1 more Chancelor, for 3 chancelor's, instead of 2 chancelor's.
And thinking of maybe, maybe not turning 1 Galvanic Blast, into either 1 Geosurge, or 1 chandra, or 1 curse of the stalked prey.
February 5, 2012 10:54 p.m.
So should I leave deck as is?
Or If I make 1 of the changes I am thinking about whether to make, which of the changes, I am thinking about whether I should make or not, should I make?
So please help,comment
thanks
February 5, 2012 11:01 p.m.
After making temporary experimental changes, and playtesting, those changes, I am making the changes at least semi permanent, at the very least.
CHANGES:
Turned 1 Galvanic Blast into 1 more Geosurge for 3 Geosurges.
Turned 1 Signal Pest into 1 more Chancellor, for 3 Chancellor's.
Now Turn 2,3,4 Kills,wins, happen more often, and in playtesting the deck, dropped a Chancellor, 1st turn, and a Chancellor + a Chandra, 2nd,3rd turns.
Added 2 Inkmoth Nexus's.
Updated Deck Breakdown.
Changed Deck Name.
I am also going to use this standard format deck, for my modern format deck, without changing, adding the older modern format cards.
February 6, 2012 1:52 p.m.
Changes: Went from 63 cards, 22 lands, to 61 cards, 21 lands. took out 1 georsurge, and 1 mountain.
I noticed in playtesting, that having 3 geosurges, combined with 3 Opals, and 3 Plunges, floods my draw with 2 much mana ramp.
And since the 13 burn cards, come out often enough, I am taking out 1 card slot, by taking out 1 Geosurege, and 1 mountain.
Altho taking out 1 geosurge, will make it so that Chancelor doesn't cast out turns 1 to 3 as often, it still comes out turns 2,3,4,5 almost as often as before. And Still comes out turns 4,5,6,7, as often as before.
Metamorph + Chancellor is so sick. I had 1 playtest game where I had about 150 10/10 Goblins tokens, do 1500 damage vs a lifedeck on turn 10, by having all the contested Warzones out,battlecryers,chieftains, curse stalked preys, 3 chancelors, 2 metamorphed Chancelors out, by turn 10.
Also I have got all the cards I need for the deck, and the sideboard now, so I am going to play the deck at FNM.
I will give a report here, and on the deck page.
February 7, 2012 2:43 p.m.
This is a practice post to practice deck linking and card linking to see if I have figured out how to do that.
After i have done that, I am going to use the feedback from you all to edit,rewrite the Article, with deck link, so that squire can publish it in the community section, like he offered, wanted to do.
First Card Names:
[Goblin Chieftain] Goblin Chieftain /Goblin Chieftain/
/[Goblin Chieftain]/ /Goblin Chieftain/
[/Goblin Chieftain/] /Goblin Chieftain/
Next Practice post: Deck Linking
February 7, 2012 7:04 p.m.
Hmmm still not working, the how to do mark up thing , and others said to forward slashes, and brackets, but still not working
February 7, 2012 7:10 p.m.
Guess I misunderstood the thing and what others said, and or didnt see the double bracket thing.
So first a card name: Goblin Chieftain
Then my deck name,link next
February 7, 2012 7:16 p.m.
Ok now for the deck name link
Chandra Morphs Chancelor's Fire Gob Battlecry Army
ok it looks like it works
February 7, 2012 7:20 p.m.
ok now I am going to rewrite the article here, in this comment space, then once the article is rewritten,edited, using, drawing,deriving, based on,from the feedback you all have given me, with all the cad names, and deck name linked, then I will copy,paste the article in another thread, so that squire, and YeaGo can publish the article if they want.
February 7, 2012 7:25 p.m.
Ok I rewrote,edited the article, and posted it in another thread. It has the card names, and deck name, and user names, linked.
So now squire, and YeaGo can publish the article in the community area of the site, if they want, just like squire said he wanted, and offered to do.
I hope that they do that, because it would be great to have a article in the community area, dedicated to Kuldotha Goblin Decks, like my article, where all of us fans of Kuldotha Goblin decks can go to discuss,debate, post builds, etc, about Kuldotha Goblin Decks
And that's 1 of the big reasons why I wrote the article.
squire1 says... #2
if you wanna mark this up in html and link the cards I would be glad to publish this on the site
February 2, 2012 10:16 a.m.