The hardest lock of hard locks
Challenges and Articles forum
Posted on Nov. 3, 2014, 6:31 a.m. by HavokX
So I've been thinking about this for quite some time, but I've never attempted to try it until now. Is there any way to establish a game state such that even if your opponent had an infinite amount of turns and cards after you setup, they wouldn't be able to do anything?
First things first, let's prevent your opponent from playing cards. Donate them a Steel Golem and an Aggressive Mining . With creatures and lands taken care of (don't want any sneaky Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle s going off), we now need to tackle noncreature spells. Dovescape should do the trick for almost all of them. Yeah, it gives them 1/1 fliers, but that's nothing that Blazing Archon can't solve. Gaddock Teeg helps with the costly uncounterable instants and sorceries, but then we still have three to worry about (if my gatherer lurking is correct): Abrupt Decay , Volcanic Fallout , and Urza's Rage . Avacyn, Angel of Hope prevents them from destroying any of the pieces on the board, but we're still dead to the direct damage of the last two. There are many options available to us at this point, but Platinum Emperion was the first that came to mind.
So I was able to achieve a lock with 7 cards: Steel Golem , Aggressive Mining , Dovescape , Blazing Archon , Gaddock Teeg , Avacyn, Angel of Hope , and Platinum Emperion . This isn't an optimized list, just something I threw together in a few minutes. Are there any edge cases I haven't considered? Any errors in my reasoning? If you have a more efficient list, feel free to leave it below!
Uhh, Oblivion Ring the Lightning Greaves and then Path to Exile the Platinum Angel .
November 3, 2014 7:01 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #4
Take a look at the deck ;)
Master Transmuter + Spellskite will counter that move.
November 3, 2014 7:08 a.m.
That is not a lock. Altar of Bone will kill the Steel Golem , so now I can play creatures....
November 3, 2014 7:11 a.m.
sergiodelrio says... #6
But I guess I didn't include them in the initial post, and you're looking for a complete set of cards, that lock down everything... so the Platinum Angel thing alone might have been a little premature
November 3, 2014 7:12 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
I achieved basically the same level of lock in 2 cards less:
Riptide Laboratory - Combo with Mistbind Clique to tap down their lands on upkeep
Kismet - Their lands come in tapped completing the land mana lock.
Kill Switch - Keeps them off artifact mana
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - They will be unable to play anything in response to the Mistbind Clique tapdown on their upkeep
I think the only thing you missed are creatures like Admonition Angel , Angel of Serenity , and Ashen Rider that exile and would not be countered by Dovescape .
November 3, 2014 7:13 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #8
Admonition Angel is landfall so take her off my list of exile creatures I forgot she didn't exile as an ETB.
November 3, 2014 7:16 a.m.
Gidgetimer. What if I gained mana from Elvish Spirit Guide ?
November 3, 2014 7:16 a.m.
Souljacker says... #10
Yeah you need something to stop abilities, for example anything that enables you to sacrifiec the Steel Golem
November 3, 2014 7:16 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
I forgot all about steel golem, let me go back to the drawing board.
November 3, 2014 7:17 a.m.
Gidgetimer says... #12
I'ts not perfect that is why I said "same level". My mana lock is also weak to mana dorks.
November 3, 2014 7:19 a.m.
Children, stop arguing. You cannot get any better than this:
Please check out the first post in full.
November 3, 2014 7:42 a.m.
I originally meant for the challenge to involve us playing those cards on our first turn, after which we would skip the rest of our turns and try to watch the opponent break the lock. I suppose we could make a more robust lock wherein we would play the cards on any given board state, but we still could not interact for the rest of the game (for example, like with Riptide Laboratory and Mistbind Clique ).
And since I don't know if we can prevent opponents from sacrificing their creatures, what about replacing Steel Golem with Damping Matrix and Torpor Orb ? It should make all of their creatures vanilla, but I'm not familiar with all "when this creature dies" effects.
November 3, 2014 7:47 a.m.
Boza: That combo was pretty interesting but it'd help if you read my original post. I'm looking for a hard lock ingame, not how to take someone's entire collection.
November 3, 2014 7:55 a.m.
I think I got it:
Iona, Shield of Emeria + Rite of Replication (with kicker) + Mirror Gallery + Aggressive Mining + Painter's Servant
Done. Opponent can't play any spells or lands.
November 3, 2014 8:04 a.m.
And no HavokX, Inferno Titan can still deal 3 dmg when attacking... :D
November 3, 2014 8:06 a.m.
There is a harder lock than taking someone's collection from them? He will only have his fists to beat you with... Anyways:
Gaddock Teeg , Platinum Emperion , Archetype of Endurance , Avacyn, Angel of Hope , Laboratory Maniac , Sigarda, Host of Herons , Platinum Angel . Without the two particular cards Curfew and Words of Wind , they cannot make you lose and you have inevitability with the maniac. Add 2 Declaration of Naught to prevent that.
November 3, 2014 8:15 a.m.
Not quite Boza. False Prophet and then sac it. Exiling all creatures!
November 3, 2014 8:20 a.m.
I think a Stasis lock is the best way to go about it. Someone on this site has a Stasis deck made.
SHOW YOURSELF!
November 3, 2014 8:59 a.m.
slovakattack says... #21
I'm gonna throw my vote down with the simple Mindslaver lock. It doesn't matter what your opponent has the theoretical ability to cast if he can't, well... PLAY.
November 3, 2014 9:02 a.m.
Well, that is not quite right I think. The opponent could play spells at your turn, and then play around the Mindslaver ....
Just found out that my combo wouldn't work against Cycle cards. So I need to add Stabilizer ...
This CAN'T be responsed to.... I think.... :D
Iona, Shield of Emeria + Rite of Replication (with kicker) + Mirror Gallery + Aggressive Mining + Painter's Servant + Stabilizer
November 3, 2014 9:11 a.m.
Caligula Are you talking about my UR Stasis deck (formely Ral Stasis / Grixis Stasis)? The lock is not hard, but you could add Frozen AEther to fix that..
November 3, 2014 9:15 a.m.
slovakattack says... #25
NorthernRaven: They can't play spells during your turn, dood. You tap all their mana.
November 3, 2014 9:19 a.m.
Okay, that is right. Once a Mindslaver combo is up, you can't do anything.
November 3, 2014 9:26 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #27
This has actually been discussed long ago.
Have in play Mirror Gallery
,
Rite of Replication
targeting Iona, Shield of Emeria
,
Also have Avacyn, Angel of Hope
,
Also have Leyline of the Void
,
Also have Leyline of Sanctity
,
Also have Stony Silence
,
Also have Elite Arcanist
with Time Stop
imprinted,
November 3, 2014 9:49 a.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #28
Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Knowledge Pool
Now just take care of Lands.
November 3, 2014 9:50 a.m.
JonathanSamurai says... #30
Elite Arcanist +Moonhold , Elite Arcanist +Silence , Sigarda, Host of Herons , Avacyn, Angel of Hope
November 3, 2014 10:09 a.m.
JonathanSamurai says... #32
November 3, 2014 10:11 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #33
Pretty sure Curse of Exhaustion (or Rule of Law if multiplayer) with Possibility Storm is about as a hard lock as you can get. They can't even cast spells anymore no matter what they drew. With the multiplayer combo,, either can you though.
November 3, 2014 10:12 a.m.
VampireArmy: Grafdigger's Cage is somewhat essential to that combo as well to keep them from using Flashback since Possibility Storm only affects spells they cast from their hand.
November 3, 2014 10:44 a.m.
VampireArmy says... #35
That's true but only relevant if there's flashback
November 3, 2014 10:49 a.m.
Hence my reasoning for saying somewhat essential. Good to at least have in SB if you're running that lock though.
November 3, 2014 11:01 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #37
There was a deck on the Wizards website that once it it set up the only way the game would end is that you would give you opponent a Door to Nothingness and make them use it on themselves. If they didn't there was a big long fancy process to set everything back up instant speed and make them do it again. If I find a link I'll post it. Funniest deck I've seen
November 3, 2014 11:02 a.m.
Not sure is this has been said or is relevant to the format in question. But Mycosynth Lattice + Null Rod is the hardest of locks. Once in place, everyone just move to the next game.
November 3, 2014 11:34 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #39
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ftl/272
You're all welcome.
November 3, 2014 11:41 a.m.
@mathimus55 thank you for this. This is a deck definitely luhl worthy
November 3, 2014 11:54 a.m.
izzetderpmage851 says... #41
Here's a pretty brutal one:
Opposition +Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir + Melira, Sylvok Outcast +Devoted Druid +Blood Moon
The way this works is that Melira allows Devoted Druid to untap indefinitely. You can use this in conjunction with Opposition to tap down your opponent's board on their every upkeep, and they won't be able to respond since you have Teferi. Blood Moon is there to stop Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle and Orzhova, the Church of Deals and such.
Also, if you Oblivion Ring a Trinisphere and a Ankh of Mishra , then cast Worldfire , the result is that pretty much nobody can do anything for the rest of the game. Add in Emrakul, the Aeons Torn , and you can sit back and watch your opponents deck themselves.
November 3, 2014 12:13 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #42
Pretty sure the simplest of hard locks is Iona, Shield of Emeria and Painter's Servant . Pick any way to stop lands, such as Donate and Aggressive Mining and there's no way out.
November 3, 2014 12:25 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #43
If you can't pay the cost of a spell/ability you can't cast/ activate it.
Since Melira, Sylvok Outcast says that you can't put -1/-1 counters on things you can't pay the cost of her untap ability.
November 3, 2014 12:28 p.m.
izzetderpmage851 says... #44
Oh your right Ohthenoises.
All right then, use Ashnod's Altar and Kitchen Finks . You sac it to the Altar, then it comes back untapped and with no counter due to Melira. Then tap it again, sac it again, repeat ad infinitum.
Also Resounding Thunder gets around the Iona-Painter lock.
November 3, 2014 12:44 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #45
I supposed if the Donate and Aggressive Mining portion fails for long enough, sure. We can just put in Stabilizer and then cycling is out too.
November 3, 2014 12:51 p.m.
smash10101 says... #47
smackjack plays U/R stasis. I have a momo blue Stasis deck, but I gave up trying to make it work and am playing Solidarity now. The main combo in mine was Frozen AEther + Stasis .
November 3, 2014 1:02 p.m.
How about Darksteel Forge + Mycosynth Lattice give your opponent Aggressive Mining and play Stony Silence
November 3, 2014 1:43 p.m.
asasinater13 says... #49
it doesn't lock the board but it basically locks out a win, Dovescape
+ Phyrexian Unlife
+ Form of the Dragon
so they have to kill your 5 health in first strike then during regular damage hit you for 10. I'm sure there are ways to stop this, but it's pretty efficient against a majority of decks that exist.
November 3, 2014 2:09 p.m.
asasinater13 not really. The poison counters don't go away. Since infect doesn't do damage, your life never changes from 5. Even if it did, Form of the Dragon
doesn't remove poison counters and Dovescape
doesn't prevent them.
Basically the poison damage stays between turns and as soon as you hit 10 poison counters you lose the game, whether it's this turn or 20 turns from now.
you want Melira, Sylvok Outcast
in this somewhere or Platinum Angel
.
sergiodelrio says... #2
Lightning Greaves + Platinum Angel and Darksteel Forge GG.
Find it here:
Tired of Losing? (#1 Modern Platinum Angel Deck) Playtest
Modern sergiodelrio
SCORE: 103 | 41 COMMENTS | 10479 VIEWSNovember 3, 2014 6:47 a.m.