How Can I Put Ziatora, the Incinerator into this Deck?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on March 9, 2024, 9:24 a.m. by DemonDragonJ
I wish to put Ziatora, the Incinerator into my Kresh the Bloodbraided EDH deck, but I am not certain what card I should remove to make room for her.
The most logical choice is Darigaaz, the Igniter, because he does not contribute to the main theme of the deck and simply has been outclassed, but I was also considering replacing Dread, due to its heavily monocolroed casting cost, or The Immortal Sun, since recent comments from other users have inspired me to rethink me decision to include that card in every EDH deck that I make.
What does everyone else say about this subject? Which card should I remove to put Ziatora, the Incinerator into this deck?
Of these options, I think Darigaaz is the one I would cut. The card does little for your deck, and arguably actively hurts your deck due to its mana-hungry nature.
Though, if I can be candid, I would probably cut all three options and work on fixing some other aspects of your deck before you think of adding another high mana creature. As it stands, your deck’s mana curve is very high - it looks a lot like you added a bunch of flashy creatures for their text boxes, but did not consider your curve when throwing things together.
Instead of adding more high-end creatures, I think you would be better served focusing on ramp and removal.
Despite being in Green, you seem to be running very little in the way of that color’s ramp package (mana dorks and land fetching spells), instead using a small number of artifacts (including incredibly mediocre -mana rocks). Lack of ramp is a problem in any deck; it is particularly a problem in a deck with a high curve.
Your removal package is also aggressively bad, with a lot of 3-4 mana spells. You need better, low-cost removal options - that will ensure you can cast those removal spells even when playing high-cost creatures, and will ensure you can use them to kill things and boost your commander’s power.
Also, just as an aside, Temple Bell is a god-awful card - you are giving away more resources with it than you get. It has no place in any deck.
March 10, 2024 1 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
Caerwyn, I originally built this deck when EDH was still a new format, and I have been slowly upgrading it, since then, so I was not as skilled at deckbuilding at that time as I am now (if you look at my profile, you can clearly see how my newer decks show that I have gained experience as a deckbuilder).
I must disagree with you about my mana rocks, because I think that every one of them is a good card, and I actually used to have both Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus in this deck, but I removed them, because I decided that they simply were too expensive. I also do have several destruction spells in this deck that cost a mere 2 mana, so that should not be a problem.
I like Temple Bell, because it is free after its initial casting cost, can be used for political reasons, and I always use it during the end step of the player immediately before me, so that I benefit the most from it.
Also, since when is an average converted mana cost of 3.92 considered "high?" Perhaps for a 60-card deck, that is high, but not for an EDH deck, in my experience.
I do agree that Darigaaz is the best candidate for being replaced by Ziatora, but I would like to receive further feedback before I make my final decision, on this matter.
March 10, 2024 12:47 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #5
Also, Caerwyn, what do you think of Frenzied Tilling as a form of mana acceleration?
March 10, 2024 1:03 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #6
Sorry for the double post, but what about Zhur-Taa Druid?
March 10, 2024 1:11 p.m.
Frenzied Tilling is a terrible card. Five mana to destroy one land and get one tapped basic? Yikes.
Why don’t you start with the basics before doing anything weird. Cultivate gets you one untapped land, possibly a second if you do not have a land to play for turn, basically making it cost one or two mana. You have your classic dorks, like Birds of Paradise. Delighted Halfling would be particularly good for you, given your high prevalence of legendary cards. You could cut your three-mana rocks and go with the many two-mana options available.
Ramp should not be fancy - it should be efficient. You want to play it early so you can start playing big things faster - that means you really want to focus on mana ramp which costs one or two mana (or functionally costs one or two mana because it gives you untapped lands).
March 10, 2024 1:20 p.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
Caerwyn, I agree that Frenzied Tilling is not a particularly good card, so I shall not bother with it. Both of those creatures that you suggested are nice, but I still think that Zhur-Taa Druid better fits the theme of this deck.
I actually have made my decision regarding two of the three cards that I mentioned, in my first post, and I have made the replacements in my deck; I confess that I did replace two large and flashy creatures with two more large and flashy creatures, but I promise that I shall replace The Immortal Sun with a more utilitarian card.
March 10, 2024 3:59 p.m.
I think four mana is pretty steep for removal and the additional effect of tapped ramp is probably not enough to offset the brutal casting cost. Especially since it is just creature removal, so you cannot even hit everything you might want to kill, even with its high cost. Think of if this way:
If you draw it early in the game, you are going to be unhappy - you either will not have the mana to cast it or you will have to forego casting whatever you wanted to cast in order to fire off this piece of removal.
If you draw it later in the game, you still probably will have a hard time paying a full four mana for removal and casting whatever you wanted to play for turn - and that additional land is probably not as helpful.
The art is great though.
March 11, 2024 10:21 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #11
"since when is an average converted mana cost of 3.92 considered 'high?'"
For about the last 9 years in my experience. My first few decks when I was getting into EDH were up around 4-4.25, but since then I try to keep them sub 3.5 for low power and sub 2.5 for high power. But play groups are all different, so it doesn't matter. If you are asking in a vacuum though 3.92 is "unplayably high" to most groups in my experience. However, if your win % is in the 20-30% range then apparently it is good enough for your group.
March 12, 2024 6:49 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #12
Caerwyn, that makes sense, so I am very glad that I asked you, for your advice, before purchased a copy of that card; and I agree that the artwork is nice, as well.
Gidgetimer, most of the other players with whom I play seem to avoid very expensive cards, but those players who do choose to sue expensive cards definitely know how to use them effectively; one player had an EDH deck with Zacama, Primal Calamity as the general, and, once he summoned Zacama, he dominated that game, so he clearly knew what he was doing, when he built that deck.
DemonDragonJ says... #2
I certainly do not wish to be annoying, but I would greatly appreciate any feedback that other users here can offer on this subject.
March 9, 2024 11:33 p.m.