I LOVE CHAOS
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on April 12, 2023, 11:48 p.m. by 77hi77
In another topic, I was talking about how inspired I am by decks that use Rakdos the Defiler as commander, how it's inspired me to look at Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant and how Rakdos shaped my Razaketh, the Foulblooded deck. In saying that, I realized how much I love chaos. As a friend of mine put it when I was describing my Razaketh deck, "I'm going down and I'm bringing everyone with me".
My question is, what unhinged chaotic cards/themes/decks do you like? The type where the whole game gets turned on its head, and no one truly knows how it'll pan out. Rakdos the Defiler is the perfect example, but I'm looking for more inspiration. I've seen other people ask this question and the conversation turned into cards with a lot of randomness built in, which is fine, but I'm just as much looking at things like Rakdos where you're paying a massive cost that may or may not pan out. Really, I'm looking at cards/mechanics/decks/themes that you think of when you think of the words "chaotic" and "unhinged". I want something funny to play against because of how unhinged it is.
Thanks all!
Chaos is a specific game archetype that involves spells which modify the rules of the game (like Grip of Chaos) or which significantly alter the status of the game in a way that does not advance any one person’s victory (like Worldfire if not used in a game-winning combo). Often the goal of a chaos deck is adding chaos for chaos’ sake, not winning the game.
In its purest form, a chaos deck really shouldn’t be played - they are not clever and really only annoy the other players, and will make people dislike the player (with good reason).
Instead of building a pure chaos deck, one should look into cards that have a chaotic element - like coin flipping or dice rolling - where your cards are still advancing victory or a specific end, even if they have a random element to them.
April 13, 2023 12:59 a.m.
DrukenReaps I love that deck! That's very much along the lines of what I'm looking at, it takes everyone on a ride and doesn't disrupt the game, but is very impactful. No one knows what's going to happen next. How do you find other players react to it?
Caerwyn thanks for clarifying, then I should be more specific. I'm not looking to shut down the game in the way that the cards you mentioned, because I agree that that's not fun to play against. Maybe I should have stuck with the word 'unhinged': something very impactful that, in theory, is there to help me get closer to victory, but we won't know until I do it. The only example I can think of that I didn't already list is something like pairing up Aetherflux Reservoir + Lich's Mastery, it's almost saying "if I don't lose because of this, I'm gonna get you!". So it's impactful things that add a chaotic element to the game, without being designed to disrupt. I'm still trying to win, but I'm trying to do it in a way where everyone walks away with a story and, hopefully, a few chuckles.
April 13, 2023 1:36 a.m.
One deck that I've had some good times with and creates a lot of interaction is my Rakdos pure group hug deck, Everyone gets to party! Everyone's invited!. It doesn't have a lot of randomness, or even much of a win condition, but it does give everyone a lot of options to mess with everyone else. It's very strictly casual, but it can create some interesting matches.
April 13, 2023 1:49 a.m.
DrukenReaps says... #6
77hi77 It's a bit funny how people react. The first time I played a similar deck a lot of them ignored me because it was only doing little bits of damage. 2 here, 4 there... Annoying them but not setting off any alarms lol. Now they are wise to the game plan though! Now they will often attack me or destroy my pieces when they can.
I think in general a lot of folks will attack you or remove your cards often and quickly if you play a deck of this sort. No one really wants to be reminded to take their Manabarbs damage over and over again xD It's similar to "did you pay the one" that Rhystic Study always asks.
April 13, 2023 10:01 a.m.
DrukenReaps that is a playstyle (which I love) that only certain people win with, takes a very different look at tempo & life totals as a resource. Very midrangy (which I also love). It is really fun to force players to make different decisions than they normally would because you have been chiseling at life totals on a non-lifegain control deck for example.
If you build it the non-cEDH/combo way Atla Palani, Nest Tender is chaotic in a fun way. Atla with Tobasco Sauce plays with high variance. Ruric Thar, the Unbowed is one of my favorite egg-hatches, which probably fits the bill for this topic.
Polymorphing probably fits this bill too, you can build however much variance you want then Reality Scramble tokens.
Fun variance cards: Oath of Druids is a staple for me, you can make the game very lopsided against a miserly opponent with this. Creative Technique is powerful but has variance, Protection Racket is amazing in a fun Timmy deck that doesn't care that much if you lose a card here and there. None of those really stall things, they just keep the foot on the gas. I know there are more that I will think up.
April 13, 2023 1:23 p.m.
Oh yeah! dice-rolling anything seemed to do really well with variance, but good effects. Wand of Wonder is a favorite. Also can exile dangerous spells if you don't cast them
April 13, 2023 1:36 p.m.
I built a single deck that has the Chaos tag, Pavel the Mighty, Hero We Deserve. That deck prioritizes unusual cards/effects, and doesn't mind running some questionable cards if they can fill a role. From the deck, these are some of my favorite Chaos spells: Allure of the Unknown is not only a solid draw spell, it's also a great way to make a friend, especially if you've got big/crazy effects in your deck. I also like the Auctions, Thieves' Auction and Illicit Auction, both have a strong absurdist element to them, but either can do things you're really not supposed to do in Red. Fevered Suspicion can be a lot of fun, Hurl Through Hell is a truly weird effect. While Pavel is a chaotic deck, it also has the possibility of eliminating people, I don't think I like Chaos for Chaos' sake, I like there to be a plan, even if the plan has elements of insanity to it.
I think if you want to build Chaos, your deck should be able to win the odd game, otherwise you're kind of violating the presumption that we're all trying to win the game (to some degree/in some fashion). I suppose if you have a playgroup that's fine with decks that do the equivalent of throwing feces at a dinner party then have at it, but if your deck can sometimes threaten a win it's a very different story than if you're just making people miserable for kicks. I for one will tolerate a lot of annoying things in decks, but at least have a plan to end things, I hate frustration scooping!
April 13, 2023 4:07 p.m.
DreadKhan I've checked that deck out, I dig the style :)
I've used Thieves' Auction in Kardur, Doomscourge to rearrange the balance of power, you can guess I always choose Kardur first in the auction :) .. That deck has Havoc Festival as well :) -- Cardura treats your BPH
April 13, 2023 4:59 p.m.
I'm kind of indifferent on chaos for chaos' sake, it doesn't bother me that much because I usually make/consume a really good beverage & make the chaos player sort out their effects :) ... Which I guess is its' own sortof punishment, though I am not really doing that for punishment... It is more lack of caring at that point & just wisely enjoying another diversion
April 13, 2023 5:02 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #12
Circu, Dimir Lobotomist is hilarious when you start hitting all of the staples that everyone has come to rely on. Sort of expected Havoc Festival to make the cut for the party deck, but since it wasn’t there I’ll mention it now! I feel like if a card is going to fit in this discussion it should hit everyone like havoc festival does, one-sided craziness just doesn’t strike the right chord for me. Sort of wish they’d go back to the Mudslide format, where you have to take a bite of the sandwich like everyone else.
April 13, 2023 6:29 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #13
(and yes, I would prefer it if Circu affected his controller’s casting too)
April 13, 2023 6:30 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #14
Last one, in more of a weird style of chaotic: no one ever expects you to have a Slaughter Games. There’s nothing funnier than someone boasting about how they’ve got the game wrapped up, “all [they] need now is Card X and [they] go infinite so smoke ‘em if you got ‘em” and then exiling it from wherever it happens to be. So, that’s more of a “This is a terrible EDH Card, why is it in the deck?” chaotic.
April 13, 2023 6:51 p.m.
FormOverFunction Haha... I love Slaughter Games. I once played against a friend's Krarkashima deck (a deck I absolutely loathe) & the buddy had a Cyclonic Rift + Mana Drain + some lame treasure making wizard lock going on. Because that kind of garbage is just what Krarkashima tends to do, even if that is not the intent when making it. Anyway, because that deck takes unnecessarily long, I took super long to mix a drink... Took a year-long sip & then played that beauty, pretty unforgettable :)
... I need to put that spell back in more decks
April 13, 2023 7:35 p.m.
FormOverFunction If you're talking about my deck with Havoc Festival, it didn't make the cut because it forces damage on people. The idea behind the deck is that it gives people extra options, which they can use or not as they want. It's about giving people opportunities, and if they use those opportunities to hurt people, that's on them.
Don't get me wrong, HavocFest is a great card (and easy to cheese with Wound Reflection, if you're into that sort of thing). It's just too unfriendly for this specific deck list.
April 13, 2023 11:37 p.m.
Okay I ADORE the discussion here, these are all amazing ideas that are really inspiring me.
Basically the reason I started this thread was because the only concept I had of something chaotic was the "I'm going down and you're all coming with me" approach. I may have won the game, but I won with 6 life left, no cards in hand, and I board-wiped us all to get there, or whatever other mode of self-destruction.
On that note, legendofa, that's such a cool concept! I love it, I hope you're okay with me stealing some of those ideas. In your deck description you do say that is often the rage-destroy everything colour pair, but that deck looks like a great use of the mindgames that both colours excel at. I love demons, demons characteristically do a lot of "here's a great gift for you, if you wish to pay the price". I think it's very in character of and, you're right, people tend not to look at it enough.
DreadKhan I looked at that deck and, again, so many great ideas in it! I'm especially loving the auctions. Going back to the premise of "I'm going down and you're all coming with me", it feels like the auctions balance that out, as well as offer a different way to disrupt without being evil about it. I agree with you, the deck I've got in mind is actively trying to win, we're not being disruptive just for the sake of it, it's all part of an attempt to win, this is just making a show of the risks I'd take to do it.
Everyone that I didn't respond to, just know that I enjoyed your comments, but it took me about 4 hours to write this one because I kept getting distracted by all the cards and decks everyone here has linked
DrukenReaps says... #2
Group Slug I think fits the bill pretty well. It's been a long time favorite way for me to play the game. My most recent version is headed by Klothys, God of Destiny who is a very safe choice I'll say. Not so much chaotic herself. Within the deck Thine Destiny is Death however, things change a bit. In playing it I'll be doing damage to everyone. Including me. Multiplying that damage to everyone. Including me. Overall it's a fun burn to see who gets to the end of their life total the fastest.
April 12, 2023 11:56 p.m.