Is Mono-Black Reanimator really viable?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 24, 2016, 10:47 p.m. by Razulghul
Hi, so I have been working for a while now on making a fun and competitive Reanimator deck in black(Erebos, God of the Dead or Mikaeus, the Unhallowed at the helm) and I keep running into some issues. I invested in all the Black staples, Yawgmoth's Will, Reanimate, Entomb, Necropotence, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Phyrexian Tower etc. But find the deck to be pretty inconsistent. Here are my main issues:
- Getting things into the graveyard. Here I run a mix of the creatures Oona's Prowler, Skirge Familiar and Putrid Imp. Spells I run are Entomb and Buried Alive.
Should I try dredge or Mesmeric Orb type effects?
- What type of creatures should be a priority? Hypothetically, I draw Reanimate + Entomb in opening hand. Should a strong ETB effect like Rune-Scarred Demon come first or something more akin to Sheoldred, Whispering One?
Lastly if my opening hand contains a tutor, should I go for Cabal Coffers + Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , a draw engine like Necropotence or something else?
Any help is appreciated, I've played since 2000 but always casually. The result has been that i'm ok at deck building but terrible at actually winning in a competitive environment.
All I have currently is an experiment slow burn build I am trying after othrr more standard builds disappointments. Graveyard hate isn't big in my meta, so I have room to try different builds from slow to fast. This build doesn't currently have Animate Dead + Necromancy + Reanimate though at one point it did. With that build I kept running into the "all my eggs in one basket" problem, so I'm trying something different.
Salty Sac
Commander / EDH
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I'm mostly looking for successful competitive builds and advice on how to play them, as I think the problem may be more strategy than deck.
November 25, 2016 12:19 a.m.
freakman13 says... #4
I would put sheoldred at the head and run all the tutor to graveyard and ramp you can.
November 25, 2016 1:16 a.m.
Corpse Connoisseur. And I second Sheoldred for president! There's a lot of potential in reanimation.
Or you could go with Sedris, the Traitor King and shift to grixis reanimator... XD
November 25, 2016 2:06 a.m.
@freakman13 I've considered sheoldred as commander, but I worry that she's a bit slow since you have to wait a full rotation just to get a creature. Granted she will be making others sacrifice as it comes around, as she cost 7 I think most players would have a couple things they could off load even if she comes out turn 4. I also worry she lacks subtlety, like Mikaeus, the Unhallowed she kind of tells everyone exactly what you plan to do which is why I started playing Erebos, God of the Dead. Playing bombs in the command zone has not been great in my meta since it inevitably gets answered immediately. How do you get her out and keep her out?
November 25, 2016 2:11 a.m.
freakman13 says... #7
I like the removal that comes with the Praetor, but you have a much larger card pool in 3 color. I personally run a 5 color tribal demon reanimator, but Sheoldred with goodstuff creatures graveyard and regular tutors, and infinite combos based on reanimating would be a solid, fun deck.
November 25, 2016 2:12 a.m.
Yeah, I think adding blue, red or even white would improve the deck considerably. I just enjoy the challenge associated with mono color decks, it also allows you to pick/hard cast from the card pool of 3+ single devotion cards which are usually pretty awesome. I'll take another look at Sheoldred, Whispering One and see if I can get a list that can cast her early and keep her out. Thanks for the input.
November 25, 2016 2:27 a.m.
freakman13 says... #9
I'm typing up an actual card list on your decklist, but that didn't seem fair on here
November 25, 2016 2:35 a.m.
PhotogenicParasympathetic says... #10
If you get Entomb + Reanimate early on, never get Sheoldred, Whispering One. She's just not good in the early game, and she's still vulnerable to removal. Personally, I always get Rune-Scarred Demon to get a big threat + some extra gas for my next play, or, if I'm just looking to get a threat, Grave Titan is harder to answer (because killing it still leaves its zombies behind), and more potentially damaging to an opponent.
November 25, 2016 2:44 a.m.
freakman13 says... #11
I tend to tool box it, but It That Betrays is nasty on turn 1 or 2
November 25, 2016 2:47 a.m.
Most of the competitive black reanimator decks I'm used to seeing try to cheat a combo into play. So something like getting Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion into play at the same time off a Victimize or Wake the Dead. Another strategy is to get both Triskelion and Phyrexian Devourer into the graveyard and then take advantage of both their abilities with Necrotic Ooze to gun everyone down. Mono-black's options for expensive creatures with really oppressive abilities are on the skimpy side (in comparison to white or blue), and just reanimating a big creature for beats doesn't get too far in EDH. Sheoldred is a common reanimator target though, and I suppose an early Herald of Leshrac could hamper your opponents' ability to develop their boards for a while.
Looking at your list, it seems like your deck is currently aimed at abusing reanimation for value. In which case, you could give Chainer, Dementia Master a try as your commander. He's good at grinding out card advantage if you can back him up with free sac effects like Altar of Dementia to both fill graveyards and help keep your creatures from being exiled if Chainer is about to be removed.
November 25, 2016 4:49 a.m.
I second the suggestion of chainer. I used to run him and he is insanely good.
November 25, 2016 9:18 a.m.
Some good tips here. Thanks everyone!
@SaberTech I ran both Triskelion and the new Crystalline Crawler when I had Mikaeus, the Unhallowed at commander. I didn't consider putting them in the yard and winning via instant Wake the Dead though. I'll reconsider that for sure, as well as Necrotic Ooze. I'm running both Phyrexian Altar + Retribution of the Ancients which allows any undying creature to go infinite (Geralf's Messenger or any creature with Mikaeus out) do you think this is a strong enough combo to focus a black deck on or should I stick to creature only combos since they are easier to recur?
@PhotogenicParasympathetic Thats a good point about Grave Titan, I passed on him when I cut Nim Deathmantle but I'll reconsider I think.
If I decide to go with Chainer, Dementia Master/Sheoldred, Whispering One/Mikaeus, the Unhallowed or replace Erebos, God of the Dead at general should I cut creatures in favor of draw like Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper and/or shoot for 8 or 9 tutors?
November 25, 2016 2:52 p.m.
Here my idea for a reanimator/ETB strategy Deck. Hope it helps.
Creatures:26
1 Cryptbreaker1 Apprentice Necromancer1 Millikin1 Coffin Queen1 Fleshbag Marauder1 Liliana, Heretical Healer1 Magus of the Will1 Body Snatcher1 Crypt Ghast1 Disciple of Bolas1 Erebos, God of the Dead1 Mindwrack Demon1 Solemn Simulacrum1 Chainer, Dementia Master1 Gray Merchant of Asphodel1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier1 Demon of Dark Schemes1 Grave Titan1 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed1 Nirkana Revenant1 Noxious Gearhulk1 Ob Nixilis, Unshackled1 Wurmcoil Engine1 Butcher of Malakir1 Rune-Scarred Demon1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
Spells:38
1 Mana Crypt1 Entomb1 Reanimate1 Retribution of the Ancients1 Sol Ring1 Vampiric Tutor1 Altar of Dementia1 Black Sun's Zenith1 Demonic Tutor1 Dread Summons1 Exsanguinate1 Jet Medallion1 Necromancer's Stockpile1 Profane Command1 Stitch Together1 Wake the Dead1 Attrition1 Buried Alive1 Infernal Tribute1 Mimic Vat1 Necropotence1 Strata Scythe1 Victimize1 Yawgmoth's Will1 Damnation1 Grave Pact1 Liliana of the Dark Realms1 Makeshift Mannequin1 Quicksilver Amulet1 Whip of Erebos1 Black Market1 Dark Petition1 Liliana Vess1 Beseech the Queen1 Caged Sun1 Behold the Beyond1 Decree of Pain1 Rise of the Dark Realms
Lands:36
1 Cabal Coffers1 Crypt of Agadeem1 Deserted Temple1 Lake of the Dead1 Miren, the Moaning Well1 Mortuary Mire1 Myriad Landscape1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx1 Phyrexian Tower1 Rogue's Passage24 Swamp1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth1 Volrath's Stronghold
Maybeboard:15
1 Phyrexian Obliterator1 Tree of Perdition1 Ghoulcaller Gisa1 Shadowborn Demon1 Massacre Wurm1 Lord of the Void1 Smallpox1 Dark Prophecy1 Grim Return1 Mortal Combat1 Mutilate1 Living Death1 Deadly Tempest1 Mirrorpool1 Sequestered Stash
November 25, 2016 5:44 p.m. Edited.
Phyrexian Altar + Retribution of the Ancients + a creature with undying is a combo that could win you the game, but it is a slower and less competitive option.
The advantage of the previous creature based combos I listed is that all the pieces can be tutored into your graveyard with Buried Alive so that they are ready to be reanimated, which can potentially win you the game as early as turn 2.
(1st turn: Swamp -> Dark Ritual -> Buried Alive for Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion, and Phyrexian Devourer. 2nd turn: Swamp -> Reanimate/Animate Dead/Exhume the Ooze and combo off)
or
(1st turn: Swamp -> Mana Vault. 2nd turn: Swamp -> tap the vault -> and now you can cast Buried Alive and a reanimate spell on the same turn for the win.)
The Phyrexian Altar combo you are using becomes less reliable if you aren't using Mikaeus, the Unhallowed as your commander, since the Altar and the Retribution have less functionality if Mikaeus or an undying creature isn't in play. However, if your play-group doesn't really like fast combo kills then your combo would probably be more palatable and you might get less flak thrown your way for using it.
November 25, 2016 6:49 p.m.
A Grindstone + Mortal Combat could be and interesting way to win as well.
November 25, 2016 8:24 p.m.
@ComradeJim270 yeah, I'm going to have to agree somewhat. Even running a Buried Alive win combo, that'll work only once per a playgroup most likely. I'm still making the deck, but it's not going to be as impressive as I'd hoped.
November 26, 2016 1:11 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #22
Yeah, you just miss out on too much with only one color. Reanimator really wants access to other colors; most of the good decks I've seen have three.
November 27, 2016 9:22 a.m.
I'm kind of leaning towards an overall oppressive build with only 4 creatures: Mindslicer, Grey Merchant of Asphodel, Massacre Wurm and Abhorrent Overlord. Has anyone tried something similar? Possibly Sidisi, Undead Vizier at commander
November 27, 2016 4:34 p.m.
Sorry just to clarify, still building around Reanimate effects but by shrinking creature pool I'll have access to more spot removal, draw and tutors.
November 27, 2016 4:55 p.m.
T1 Entomb (grab Sheoldred, Whispering One), T2 Reanimate or Animate Dead Sheoldred... GG.
In other news, there's a guy in my meta that plays Ob Nixilis, Unshackled to great success. Over a year ago, there was a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed player who used Relentless Rats to stomp players.
November 27, 2016 6:40 p.m.
Who cares, let the fun happen as they sac their creatures every turn... and if you're building reanimator well enough, your guys will start pouring onto your field for free. It's a hell of a start for a well-tuned reanimator deck.
Cards like Ghoulcaller's Bell will help you start filling yards with reanimate targets on all sides. Bitter Revelation is a budget card that I've enjoyed in such decks. I play reanimator myself, but in Grixis colors, Sedris, the Traitor King (He That Betrays), but Whip of Erebos is what really got me into the archetype when it was Standard.
November 28, 2016 5:34 a.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #28
"Who cares" is right. The most likely answer is "nobody at the table." A lot of competitive decks barely even use creatures. Sheoldred is kind of crap. Honestly, mono-black on the whole doesn't work at that level.
November 28, 2016 6:13 p.m.
Meh it just depends on who you play with, here if you second turn Sheoldred, Whispering One it'll be back in your hand or exiled before it's your turn again. I wish black had access to more hexproof creatures, but oh well. The best I could come up with was a list of 6 creatures that depending on board state they could cripple your opponents. The best 2nd turn Reanimate target after my play testing is either Rune-Scarred Demon or Solemn Simulacrum. No creature you get out is going to be able to beat an entire table to death, but having either of these to pull outta your yard all game could give you all you need. Mindslicer could also be a really awesome/rude start if you happen to have Phyrexian Tower or High Market out.
Also if you win the lottery of hands and can get out a Lightning Greaves too, I suppose Blightsteel Colossus or It That Betrays might be acceptable depending on the players/colors at the table.
November 28, 2016 8:20 p.m.
PookandPie says... #30
Sheoldred, Whispering One on turn 2 isn't crippling for most decks. Competitively speaking, it's a non-issue because decks will win via storming off with Aetherflux Reservoir, casting Ad Nauseam to draw the whole library, plopping out a Laboratory Maniac, and then casting a cantrip to win before the turn's end, Doomsday, Food Chain infinites, etc., all of which don't require setting down one creature per turn. You'd basically slow down a Yisan, the Wanderer Bard deck with it and that's about it (and Yisan thrives in competitive metas because of the lack of creature interaction, fundamentally speaking, so you're really just using a slow method of exploiting that deck's general weakness).
In Battlecruiser Magic where people only play 1 creature a turn or so? Yeah, a Sheoldred is probably crippling. However, this post is asking if mono black Reanimator is generally viable, which means, "Is this at least feasibly competitive enough to play against varying tiers of decks, including highly competitive ones" and the answer to that is a flat-out no.
I purposefully built Chainer, Dementia Master for the sole purpose of being my low power level deck so that way players new to Commander could have fun without me pubstomping. Sidisi, Undead Vizier is a little stronger, and probably semicompetitive, but any of its combos Karador, Ghost Chieftain already uses, and does so better, which is why it's one of the premier competitive Reanimator decks in the format, and the others, simply, are not.
A turn 2 Land Equilibrium off of an Island, Sol Ring, and Talisman of Progress is backbreaking and can lead to GG. Sheoldred simply won't unless your opponent's decks are average, but it won't hinder competitive decks at all unless they're named Yisan or Arcum, and even those each of those decks run plenty of outs against sacrifice or targeting effects.
Hopefully I'm explaining what Jim is trying to get at, but do so by elucidating and not antagonizing, lol.
November 28, 2016 9:31 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #31
Nah, you pretty much got it PookandPie. All of the "big plays" I'm seeing proposed for mono-black reanimator are quite anemic. They're good in casual games but don't have legs in competitive ones.
November 29, 2016 12:41 a.m.
Sorry but it looks like I should have clarified "competitive" a little better. I'm not going to tournaments, just sitting in my local GS playing the same people each Wednesday and we all play to win but not cut throat. By competitive I only meant compete with well built decks, piloted by good players. Cut throat is just a race to the bottom and while we all might build something degenerate occasionally, it gets pulled apart pretty quick since everyone pretty much knows what's up after the first reshuffle.
November 29, 2016 2:38 a.m.
In that case, I'd just create something you would have fun playing with and your opponents against. A deck that does something unusual, funky or different. Playing with or against those deck are usually a lot of fun, especially if does something new.
November 29, 2016 4:15 p.m.
Like a black spirit tribal deck with Iname, Death Aspect as commander and Mortal Combat + Vedalken Orrery combo.
enpc says... #2
Do you have a decklist? as for how to play, it's a combination of how the deck works and what your opponents are doing.
November 24, 2016 11:24 p.m.