Should I Put Talisman of Hierarchy in My Liesa Deck?
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 30, 2022, 8:27 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I very much wish to put Talisman of Hierarchy in my Liesa, Shroud of Dusk EDH deck, because I feel that that deck has a sufficient focus on gaining life to balance out the damage from that artifact, but I need to decide what card to remove to make room for it.
My most likely choice is Thran Dynamo, because, as awesome as that card is, it is expensive, and nearly every other mana-generating artifact in that deck has a secondary function; Gilded Lotus is more expensive than is the dynamo, but it generates colored mana.
What does everyone else say about this? Should I put Talisman of Hierarchy into my Liesa deck, and if I do, what card should I remove to make room for it?
Personally, I think you have way too many lands in that deck. 40 is a LOT. I would cut two lands (a swamp and a plains) and add both Talisman of Hierarchy and Orzhov Signet like what Caerwyn suggested.
November 30, 2022 9:44 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #4
Caerwyn, I would rather use Commander's Sphere over any of the Ravnican signets, because it does not require mana to fuel its ability, and I can sacrifice it when to draw a card when I no longer require the mana.
AstroAA, I need to ensure that I have swamps to synergize with Castle Locthwain and plains to synergize with Emeria, The Sky Ruin, so how many of each of those lands do you recommend?
November 30, 2022 10:19 p.m.
I would take the likelihood of getting out a powerful piece - particularly in Commander where you always have access to a deck-advancing spell - over the other advantages of Commander's Sphere. Turns are more valuable than cards, and the cost reduction buys you a full extra turn by ramping you just a little bit early. It’s a bit closer of a case with Sphere over the other two you listed, but I would still err on the side of a rock over a .
That said, I would certainly run Sphere over either Thran Dynamo or Gilded Lotus.
November 30, 2022 10:34 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #6
Emeria is kind of a bitch to activate outside of mono-white in my experience... Without any kind of extra land effects or much searching you are maybe going to see it active by turn 10 or 11 in a typical game. So you may get 2 or 3 activations before a game ends at the average casual table. That's under ideal conditions. More likely it won't do anything though.
I'd highly recommend dropping a plains and a swamp and picking up Land Tax if you can afford it and Sword of the Animist which looks like it should be in your budget. Plus your commander has fly, you ought to always have 1 open opponent for sword at least. That'd bring you to 38 lands, I typically run 35 lands with 10-ish mana sources just fine. So up to 3 more cards which find your lands wouldn't be a bad idea. I haven't looked much at Orzhov in awhile though... Not sure what else to suggest.
For your question dropping thran dynamo would be a good choice. Outside of artifact decks or colorless decks it just tends to be too slow. 3 colorless mana can also just not be useful sometimes in more colorful decks. I've gravitated towards running mana rocks that cost 2 or less mana, 3+ cmc only if they have some strong additional effect or are highly synergistic.
December 1, 2022 3:28 a.m.
If you want synergy with swamps Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is your answer. Sadly white does not have something similar with plains.
One thing I want to note is your CMC is pretty high at 4.05. As such, I wouldn't really go below 35~36 with at least 10~15 extra sources of mana/lands, such as what DrukenReaps mentioned with Land Tax and Sword of the Animist. I would personally try getting your CMC down to around three, and I think if you did you'd have a lot smoother of a game if you did so. You seem to be wanting to have a lifegain theme, so replacing more expensive cards like Angel of Despair with things like Soul Warden would help in that regard.
December 1, 2022 6:57 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #8
Caerwyn, I have Thran Dynamo and Gilded Lotus in every one of my EDH decks, apart from my Atraxa deck (which instead contains Everflowing Chalice and Astral Cornucopia), and you actually have inspired me to re-evaluate my decision to include those cards in those decks, since, as awesome as they are, they are very expensive and I agree that it would be better to reduce the mana curve of my decks.
December 1, 2022 8:25 p.m.
White and Black aren't great in regards to ramp, but you could also play cards like Weathered Wayfarer, Knight of the White Orchid, and Gift of Estates. Deep Gnome Terramancer is another option if your group plays with a lot of fetches.
December 1, 2022 9:29 p.m.
PickleNutz says... #10
Depending on your budget, I usually look for net positive rocks. Which are all more expensive. Taking life is always a better option than a high casting cost or enter tapped effect.
Ideally, Chrome Mox, Mox Amber, Mox Tantalite, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, Mana Vault, Arcum's Astrolabe, Prismatic Lens, and Doubling Cube are my go to cards.
December 1, 2022 9:58 p.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #11
PickleNutz, I am not willing to spend that much money on MtG cards, so those cards are outside of my budget, unfortunately.
December 1, 2022 10:02 p.m.
PickleNutz says... #12
Budget friendly cards Mind Stone, Commander's Sphere, Arcane Signet, Sol Ring, Thought Vessel, Worn Powerstone, Basalt Monolith, Lotus Petal, and any signets of the color combos you want are affordable mana sources that slot into anything. Some of the aforementioned rocks aren’t expensive. Some definitely are though. Again, I look for net positive sources and they tend to be expensive because I play in a highly competitive group most times. Net positive doesn’t always mean more mana than CMC or instant activation though. I like mana sources that fix, provide card draw, or fit into the scheme. A 1 drop mana fixing rock with a card draw ability is net positive. Arcum's Astrolabe is a great one that is inexpensive that only requires your basic lands be snow lands. Which is a great idea anyways because of land effects in commander.
December 1, 2022 10:16 p.m.
PickleNutz - Generally when I try to help folks asking for budget feedback, I find it is helpful to avoid cards they already have in their deck (Commander’s Sphere, Arcane Signet, Sol Ring, Thought Vessel), cards the OP knows about already since they were already discussed on the thread (Commander’s Sphere), bad cards (Worn Powerstone), or cards that are obviously out of the budget when the OP asked for budget-friendly options (Lotus Petal).
December 1, 2022 10:33 p.m.
PickleNutz says... #14
Budget friendly has a wide meaning, what is budget friendly to some isn’t for all. Typically when I reply to people I do try to be respectful and realize that everyone’s views on something can differ. But even before that I fed the original post where they didn’t specify the budget or ask for budget friendly specific cards at all. I do agree though, Worn Powerstone is bad. That’s why the comment above my last one said I avoid enter tapped effects.
Caerwyn says... #2
Talisman of Hierarchy is a vastly better card than either Thran Dynamo or Gilded Lotus. Ramp should be as early and efficient as possible - you can afford to spend your two drop spot preparing for future terms - but your four and five drops should be something that actually advances your gameplan.
Also, the life loss from Talisman is so small as to be insignificant - it should not even be a factor in your decision to run it.
I would cut both those cards and add Talisman and Orzhov Signet.
November 30, 2022 9:09 p.m.