U/B Lazav: Could use help with commons and uncommons
Commander Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 12, 2016, 8:50 p.m. by 3rdeye88
That's mine, this is mine, everything is mine.
Commander / EDH
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Hi everyone. I just built this Lazav, Dimir Mastermind deck and I'm wondering what common or uncommon cards I can use to maybe make the deck better.
I know there's lots of rares I could probably use but chances are if I have them they're probably in the deck. Unless I'm just overlooking something in my binder. I'm building this deck with what I have on hand. So ordering cards isn't really an option right now. Rares suggestions are still welcome, but I would like to maybe focus on Commons and uncommons that I might have in my collection that I may have overlooked.
I'm also wondering if maybe the deck is trying to do too much. I feel like there isn't a whole great lot of synergy here. It feels like "I need to do this, and do that and this to, but there's no room for it so I guess I'll just do this and this." I'm new to commander so I find building in this space is hard. There's a lot more room, but it has to be filled up more with cards that stick to a theme if you ever want to see it during a match. I was thinking of ditching counters and bounces for support cards that deal with meta but that felt kinda scary. I don't like playing blue without having the option to counter or bounce. However I have like no real artifact or enchantment removal in the deck that seems to be a staple of any commander deck. What do you guys recommend for a new player to build a more streamlined deck that isn't slow? That's the other issue I'm having it feels very slow. Is that just how Commander is?
Thanks,Dave.
ComradeJim270 says... #3
Milling is a viable win condition in EDH, but takes some setup and should not be your main goal. If it's what you want to do, run Phenax, God of Deception as your commander. I primarily use it to stock up yards with things I can copy or steal.
Sloanan is more or less right, though. You do need a strong focus on control. I run a bunch of countermagic and boardwipes, and Jace's Archivist + Notion Thief is back-breaking for opponents. If you lose after doing that, something has gone horribly wrong.
February 18, 2016 6:05 a.m.
Sloanan Thanks for the feedback. The mill isn't necessarily the main strategy. I tried to synergize the deck a bit off of what Lazav wants done all together, which is stuff in the yard for him to copy, and utilizing the opponent's decks against them by cloning or stealing or using the other cards that punish them or reward me for their stuff going to the yard. Its kind of a dual strategy as I felt that's what Lazav as a commander is trying to accomplish. ComradeJim270 Mentioned in a comment on the deck itself that the mill needs to be more efficient. So I think all together the deck is the way it's going to be, it just needs to be more efficient and effective at what it's trying to do. In the matches I have played the deck works the way I'm intending. It just needs to do it better.
I'm super duper new to Commander so I'm really just trying to scratch together my first not-prebuilt deck so that I can switch out from my Kaseto, Orochi Archmage deck. When I can afford to buy cards again I'll definitely pick up Phenax and mindgrind as well as a few other necessities. My Budget right now is absolutely zero unless I could maybe trade it or find it in the bulk rares at my LGS. However when I do get around to buying cards as long as its not too drastic I could probably manage. I'd say nothing over $50, and even then for one card, that might be pushing it. Like my friend who pushed me into playing Commander said "the nice thing about commander is you've only gotta buy one." So yeah I'm open to dropping some cash. So far the suggestions you guys have brought up aren't anything I wouldn't buy for the deck.
February 18, 2016 11:52 a.m.
ComradeJim270 OMG that's a great combo. My friend is using Jace's Archivist+Sphinx's Tutelage in a Modern Mill deck and that by itself is absolutely devastating. I scooped right then and there. Lol
Isn't mill a form of control though? They can't use it if its in the grave and either they aren't running Res, or the stuff they use to reclaim their stuff out of the grave is also in the grave because you're hitting them right in the library and taking their life totals with it.
February 18, 2016 12:02 p.m.
ComradeJim270 says... #6
I wouldn't consider mill a form of control; in EDH in particular you might actually be giving opponents resources instead of taking them away. Flashback, Unearth, Scavenge and Dredge are all mechanics in this game and most saavy EDH players will pack in a good amount of recursion.
The main issue with mill vs. control is that mill doesn't affect the board state. Having two cards in your library doesn't make you any more dead than having eighty-two. You can still combo off or swing for lethal. You need control elements like removal and countermagic to prevent these things from happening, mill can't be counted on to get you there.
February 21, 2016 1 p.m.
That's true, but I do have some control magic in here. I didn't lean all the way towards Mill and don't want to lean all the way towards control either. I think I'll try for better Mill cards, and maybe open a few slots that Mill takes up for control. What are some of the best control cards for Blue/black in EDH?
February 23, 2016 4:38 p.m.
Mill is really not a form of control if you're playing against a reanimator strategy. Nondangerous levels of milling against my Meren deck just means I don't need to bring out any enablers myself and can focus on punishing you for it. Except for enabling cards like Consuming Aberration or your commander, I would shy away from sources of mill that couldn't also be repurposed to flat out win given the right support cards or enough mana. Mind Grind, Windfall, and maybe Stroke of Genius fit this role. Ill-Gotten Gains is an interesting but risky way to enable.
As for control, I'd pack at least 4 counterspells in a UB deck. Whether you use more is a question of how much you want to play a draw-go style versus tapping out. For removal, some options I love that you may or may not have but which are cheap to acquire include-
"Wraths": Black Sun's Zenith, Evacuation, Displacement Wave, Mutilate, Death Cloud
Targeted removal: Pongify, Rapid Hybridization, Victim of Night, Go for the Throat, Capsize
Discard: Syphon Mind, Sadistic Hypnotist, Mindslicer
More generally what type of control are you looking for? You can do it through permission, removal, or more of a Stax approach. I like the idea of focusing on discard effects so that you're limiting opponents' options while giving your general more.
Sloanan says... #2
Do you mostly intend for this to be used in multiplayer games or just duel commander? Cuz I'll go ahead and tell ya as an experienced Dimir afficionado that milling is generally a bad idea in multiplayer commander games - even with Lazav's triggers. The better option, I think, is to focus more on control - countering spells, killing creatures, discarding, etc.. You've got some of that in there already, but I would take out a good chunk of the milling cards. There are a few I'd keep or put in there (consuming abberation, obviously, but also Mind Grind if you have it - it's deadly in a multiplayer match!), but you could do without them. I also think you should run about 4-6 more lands - I think mathematically you want to have between 38-40 lands without any sort of ramp.
Now, before I start looking at cards to suggest, what is your budget looking like? I know you mentioned using what you have, so I'd hate to suggest stuff you'd have no intention of ever using. What's the most you'd be willing to spend on a card for this?
February 15, 2016 2:29 p.m.