COMMANDER/EDH BANNED LIST ANNOUNCEMENT: January 2016
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Jan. 18, 2016, 11:39 a.m. by Ender666666
Summary:
- Commander-specific mulligan rules are removed
- Rule 4 (mana generation restriction) is removed
- Prophet of Kruphix is banned
Mulligans:
We promised in the last update that, with the advent of the Vancouver Mulligan, we'd be evaluating the mulligan process in Commander. This announcement is the culmination of that research. After examining several popular options, and coming up with a few of our own, we've concluded that the Vancouver Mulligan (with the standard first-one-free in multiplayer and a scry once you go to 6 or fewer) is the best option. The RC continues to use and recommend the Gis ("Mulligan 7s to a playable hand. Don't abuse this") for trusted playgroups, but that's not something that can go in the rules.
Ultimately, the goal of mulligans in Commander is to ensure that you start the game with enough lands to be a participant. With Commander games running an hour plus, it's unfortunate if you can't play anything because you miss land drops and get run over quickly.
We didn't want to solve the problems of Magic itself - mana screw and mana flood are part of the game - and players need to make a reasonable effort with their land counts, but we wanted a mulligan rule that tried to minimize unplayable opening hands. So, we brainstormed, and ran computer simulations. And what ultimately came out was... it didn't much matter. Nothing provided a clear enough upgrade to justify having additional rules for mulligans. For example, with 37 lands, Partial Paris was "successful" (which we defined as playing a 4th land on turn 4) 89% of the time versus Multiplayer Vancouver at 86%, but it came at a cost of about a fifth of a card on average. On the whole, 86% success is a rate that seems reasonable.
If you find yourself playing 1v1 (perhaps while waiting for a friend to show up), you should still use the free multiplayer mulligan. With a deck this size, variance is high enough to make not having the free mulligan potentially punishing - without the free mulligan you drop down to about 80% success rate, which, combined with being the only opponent to focus on, leads to too many unfortunate games.
Finally, its not an official rule, but we recommend setting aside the hands you're mulliganning away until you get a keeper. That saves shuffling time, and we're all for minimizing shuffling 100-card decks.
Rule 4:
We still love Rule 4. It's a nice piece of flavor and reinforces the idea that this format goes beyond simple mechanical restrictions into a deeper philosophical approach around color and mana symbols. Its effect on the game was pretty small, but that flavor message made it worthwhile to preserve.
However, the mana system of Magic is very complicated, and trying to insert an extra rule there has consequences in the corners. Harvest Mage. Celestial Dawn. Gauntlet of Power. And now, colorless-only mana costs.
Being able to generate colorless mana more easily in Commander wasn't going to break anything. But, it represented another "gotcha" moment for players, who were now likely to learn about Rule 4 when someone exploited the colorless loophole. We could paper over it (both "mana generated from off-color sources can only pay generic costs" and "you can't pay a cost outside your color identity" were considered), but a lot of the flavor would be lost in the transition, defeating the purpose. Without the resonant flavor, Rule 4 was increasingly looking like mana burn - a rule that didn't come up enough to justify it's existence.
We don't expect removing the rule to have a big impact. Some Sunburst and Converge cards might get a bit more of a look. Sen Triplets works more like you'd expect, as does Praetor's Grasp. The clone-and-steal deck, already one of the most popular archetypes, gets better, but less than you might think. It turns out there really aren't that many impactful non-blue activated abilities on cards that commonly get stolen in Commander. It's OK if you can regenerate that creature you just stole, and you'll need to work for it a bit anyway.
One side benefit to the removal of both the color production and mulligan rules is that, in terms of game play, Commander becomes a normal game of multiplayer Magic with a higher life total and a set of additive rules to bring a new piece (your Commander) into the game. That's good streamlining in terms of teaching people the format and reducing gotcha moments while still preserving the essential flavor of Commander.
Prophet of Kruphix:
This was challenging. Prophet is not a traditionally obvious problem card for Commander, so we chose to take a conservative approach and see if casual groups could adapt. In the past, we've seen unpopular cards generate a lot of outcry, but be handled reasonably well. Powerful cards existing is OK and exploring them responsibly is an essential part of Commander.
This didn't happen with Prophet. Casual groups haven't been able to work around it and problematic play has not dropped off in hoped-for ways. Instead, the primary approach has been to steal it, clone it, run it yourself, or get run over. Ultimately, it seems the card is too perfect - it does everything U/G Commander players want to be doing and it does it in a way that makes counterplay difficult. With traditional boogeymen such as Consecrated Sphinx, you're forced to expend a lot of your mana to cast it and will have a challenge protecting it as the turn goes around the table. With Prophet, it has virtual protection built in, negating that disadvantage almost immediately.
Prophet becomes only the second multicolored card on the banlist (after the structurally-problematic Coalition Victory). It's telling just how pervasive Prophet is despite such a restriction. Yes, U/G is the most popular color combination in Commander, but we've reached the point where Prophet is driving U/G deck choice, rather than vice-versa. That's centralizing in ways we can't ignore, so it's time for Prophet to take a break.
Whenever we decide to ban a card, we take a long look at the current list to see if any cards can come off, as we believe a casual format is better served by a minimalist banlist. After extensive discussion, however, we concluded that everything on the list served a purpose, so we won't be unbanning anything. It's been two years since the last (non-consolidation) card got banned, which is an acceptable growth rate!
http://mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18057
There seems to be some confusion about what the removal of Commander Rule #4 means, so here is some clarification.
The normal Commander rules regarding Colour Identity still apply. You may only include Spells, Artifacts, Planeswalkers, Creatures and Lands in your deck that match your commander's Colour Identity. The ONLY exception is with cards where mana symbols show up in reminder text which explain a mechanic, for example, cards with the "Extort" mechanic. Crypt Ghast is an example of a card that is purely Black, even though there is a 
symbol in the reminder text that explains how the "Extort" mechanic works.
Your commander's Colour Identity is determined by each and every COLOUR of mana symbol, printed anywhere on it (Again, with the exception of reminder text).
Cards with the mechanic of "Devoid" are colourless, but still fall under the normal rules in Commander when determining its legality for your deck. Want to play Transgress the Mind, but your commander is Green? Sorry, you can't. Transgress the Mind may be colourless, but it has a Black Colour Identity when you are determining if you can legally include it in your deck because it has 
in its casting cost.
What the removal of Commander Rule #4 means is that lands like Forbidden Orchard, Mana Confluence, City of Brass, and cards like Birds of Paradise can now legally make you mana of ANY colour (
), regardless of your Commander's Colour Identity. In the past, if something caused a mana of a colour that wasn't part of your Commander's Colour Identity to be added to your mana pool, it INSTEAD added that many 
to your mana pool.
Oh, and IS NOT A COLOUR. Got it?
So what about Command Tower? Can it create any colour of mana now? NOPE. Because of the wording on Command Tower, it will still only create 1 mana of any colour IN YOUR COMMANDER'S COLOUR IDENTITY
I hope that this helps clarify things for anyone who might be confused.
5 turns is really slow, even post Partial Paris. Narset really isn't that threatening unless she's the only decent commander being played. She can be scary when she gets going, but she has a lot of bad matchups. She's weak against creature-heavy decks that have tons of early-game blockers like Animar, Soul of Elements. Weak against Prison builds and general artifact hate like Null Rod. Weak against most forms of board wipes. Heck, she gets shut down completely by $50 Zur the Enchanter decks thanks to Darksteel Mutation and Nevermore.
January 27, 2016 11:47 p.m.
All of these things can be used to stop PoK and that exactly was my original point.
January 27, 2016 11:55 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #4
Playgroups are different. PoK might not be the powerhouse in yours, but in the majority of groups, it felt dominating enough that the RC thought it would be better off banned. Also, you can't really compare a commander to a 99 card. They just have different uses (especially in the case of Narset).
January 28, 2016 12:02 a.m. Edited.
Narset isn't exclusively a Commander while PoK is exclusively a 99 card.
In what meta is PoK such a problem child that they had to ban it? Sure it's a great card but it's not insurmountable simply for being on the board. There are so many ways to get rid of it that Narset doesn't share and has more limitations as to what it interacts with.
January 28, 2016 12:09 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Once again, removal is a bad argument against power level.
January 28, 2016 12:15 a.m.
It's not when part of the reason to remove it was because it had "built in protections".
January 28, 2016 12:19 a.m.
I have come to accept the ban. It is just one of those cases where I see the ban and think "WTF!?!?!?"
Overall it's stupid. I mean Prophet of Kruphix had such a minimal effect on games when it was even seen. People continue to say that it drove others to play which is an absolutely ridiculous statement.
But at the end this is how I see it: PoK had such a minimal effect on games that it's banning has an equally minimal effect on my gameplay.
My only issue with it originally was, why ban something that isn't ban worthy? I only ran it in one deck personally, my Kruphix, God of Horizons deck.
January 28, 2016 12:46 a.m.
I totally understand that Prophet of Kruphix essentially allows a player to take an additional main phase during each opponents end step. And well it being banned came as a surprise until I thought about it. I typically play EDH/Commander during FNM and everytime someone resolved a prophet they always were able to empty out their hand, hold up counters, and on their turn typically cast their sorcery speed card draw spells to just go off. Seedborn muse is great, but the inability to empty out a hand of creatures during everyone else's turn keeps it from being as overpowered as prophet. They should unban splinter-twin in modern....just saying...
January 28, 2016 5:59 a.m.
WizardLogic says... #10
Prophet needed to be banned. For a lot of decks, her power level was of a high level, teetering on the edge of game breaking. For some decks which is where I believe this ban is coming from, she was literally game breaking, and game winning. Animar players usually win the turn after they play their prophet. Damia players usually win the turn after they play their prophet. Derevi players usually win the turn after they play their prophet. Yes, she dies to almost every basic removal spell in the existence of magic. No that does not matter, as she combines two already powerful cards into one on a stick, and she generates more value than most decks can copy in just one go around the table.
Just saying, expect the master of blink Deadeye Navigator next, as I firmly believe that in banning him, you can unban a few cards from the ban list that are only there cuz blinking them is back breaking and spirit crushing.
January 28, 2016 6:19 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
Which cards are banned only because of their blink abuse?
January 28, 2016 7:56 a.m.
@ Epochalyptik - I think if they banned Deadeye Navigator they could unban Sundering Titan, Sylvan Primordial, and possibly Primeval Titan. I'm not saying they were only banned because of blink abuse but blinking them was probably the best thing you could do short of Worldgorger Dragon combo with any of those on the field.
EDIT: Ok so I just looked at Sundering Titan more closely and realized it triggers on entering and leaving the battlefield. That's still real good even without blinks so feel free to ignore this post : )
January 28, 2016 8:57 a.m. Edited.
Epochalyptik says... #13
The thing is that DEN is not the reason those cards are banned. They were banned on their own, and while the existence of blink effects may be a portion of the reason they're considered powerful, banning one blink engine will not suddenly make them acceptable.
January 28, 2016 11:49 a.m.
Blink is only one reason those cards are banned. There's also Clones and Control Magics that come down once those creatures are in play. That trifecta really seals the deal when it comes to why those cards are banned.
January 28, 2016 11:56 a.m.
brad.ramsey1989 says... #15
I am curious, this list is not on the actual wizards site, so it it just a shop rule?
January 28, 2016 11:58 a.m.
Well first, the banned list is on Wizard's site. Second the B&R list for Commander is not changed by Wizards, but by an independent rules committee outside of Wizards.
January 28, 2016 12:03 p.m.
DiamondFlavor says... #17
kengiczar I have to disagree with you. Even with Deadeye Navigator out, there's still plenty of viable flicking around (they just printed Eldrazi Displacer), as well as reanimate, clone, bounce-and-recast, and cheat into play effects (Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, Defense of the Heart, Tooth and Nail) such that back-breaking effects stapled onto huge guys can always be abused.
Sylvan Primordial is usually a 7-for-1 on resolution, assuming a 4-player game. Even without DEN, you can still pass turn 1, discard it, turn 2 Reanimate. That's gross. And he grabs ABUR duals, shocks, etc. He's also just ludicrous in more casual settings (which, in the PoK case, seems to be the impetus for bans generally) because he can neuter everyone else's game plan while revving up your own, on one card which will definitely be used again by yourself or anyone with a clone or reanimate effect.
Primeval Titan grabs ANY two lands, and continues to do so just for attacking. In an eternal format like EDH, that's way too powerful. Too many lands do powerful things that the advantage is potentially overwhelming.
I don't know about Sundering Titan to be honest though. I've never seen one in play, but I can see how it would be disgusting. Many playgroups frown on land destruction, but the legal things like Armageddon and Jokulhaups take fairly precise timing and set-up to actually pay off, whereas targeted mass destruction like Sundering and Sylvan are effortlessly lopsided and attached to bodies, which are easy to abuse.
January 28, 2016 12:03 p.m.
brad.ramsey1989 says... #18
Oh, I realize that there is a committee, but even on Wizard's, the link to the actual commander rules doesn't even list Prophet of Kruphix, so what authority is the committee and how do you bring this into a play group? I mean, my group doesn't see this on Wizards or the actual commander website, so how is this accepted?
January 28, 2016 12:58 p.m.
WizardLogic says... #21
I am of the belief that the ban list needs to be as small as possible. I play commander because it allows me to play very powerful cards, albeit only single copies, in a fun to build around, thematic deck. This allows me to enjoy a powerful and encompassing format without having to go to a tournament, or shell out 500$+ to compete with a tournament applicable deck. In this regard, the more cards they add to the ban list, the less happy I am, as that means less cards for me to try and fit into my theme, and less cards to enjoy from magics past.
On a serious note, why is Felidar Sovereign not banned? I think they have banned close to every other -you win the game if you meet this criteria- cards, yet Feli has slipped through. I am not saying that Feli is broken in any way, I just lost a game to him today though, as my opponent flashed him in before his turn. It's just one of those "really?" moments.
January 28, 2016 3:26 p.m.
It took more than the card by itself to make a significant impact. Otherwise it can usually be easily countered by the time it comes out, taking a whole turn to activate.
January 28, 2016 3:36 p.m.
JuiceboxHero says... #23
'It took more than the card by itself to make a significant impact. Otherwise it can usually be easily countered by the time it comes out...'
The same could be argued for Prophet of Kruphix. PoK is fairly useless unless you have cards in hand or draw to empower you through other folks turns. I don't think Creatures with Flash is all what people are complaining about. Being able to untap mana during other opponents turns seems a bit more enabling, but I digress. I think what WizardLogic is saying is that this win condition is akin to Biorhythm in its function. Biorhythm required a board clear, at least. Feli is kinda one of those cheap, well that was a waste of time, games. There's no skill or effort. Just play the card and win.
January 28, 2016 6:20 p.m.
Sovereign isn't banned because it takes a full turn for his ability to trigger UNLESS he is flashed in. Simply, the win condition is neither efficient enough nor probable enough to warrant a ban. And trust me, there are a LOT of unbanned alternate win conditions that should warrant a ban long before Felidar, with Laboratory Maniac coming to mind due to his existence as a win condition in like 5 top tier EDH decks. However, he requires setup to do win easily (Doomsday, Blue Sun's Zenith + infinite mana, etc.). Coalition Victory is banned because it's stupidly easy to win with that (Prismatic Omen + any five-color creature wins the game and its ability can't be stopped), Panoptic Mirror is banned due to its interaction with Time Walk effects, Biorhythm is banned NOT because you win after a board wipe, but because it guarantees a combat victory on the turn it is cast; however, that still leaves us with 16 different cards that read "win the game" in commander that are legal and a large number of infinite combos as well. And Felidar is among the least problematic of these.
January 28, 2016 6:39 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #25
@JuiceboxHero: Flash is very plainly the reason Prophet of Kruphix was banned. Flash allows you to generate far, far more advantage with the untap effect than you could with the untap effect alone.
Consider Seedborn Muse, which has a strictly better untap effect, is playable in monocolor, and costs effectively the same. It isn't banned. Why? Because it gives you an untap, but no built-in mechanism to utilize it.
January 28, 2016 7:41 p.m.
FunkyMonkey says... #26
so is wastes a color identity, if I'm running kozeilek would command tower generate no color in the old rule 4?
January 28, 2016 8:18 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #27
Wastes is not a color, nor is it a kind of mana. is colorless mana. It's the same thing that Sol Ring has always produced.
Because colorless is not a color, Command Tower can't produce .
January 28, 2016 8:25 p.m.
Only if it is in your commander's color identity.
January 28, 2016 8:26 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #29
Incorrect.
is colorless mana. It has no color. You can't produce it with Command Tower.
Also, colorless isn't part of color identity. It's a subset within every permutation of color identities (sort of like how the empty set {} is a subset of all sets).
January 28, 2016 8:33 p.m.
What in the world would we do without Epochalyptik...be playing some janky games of MTG I'd wager. :)
January 28, 2016 8:52 p.m.
So what you are saying is that Command Tower and Commander's Sphere can't produce any mana at all if the Commander is Colorless?
I've actually been wondering this because they specifically state that they create mana of any color in the Commander's Color Identity, which Commanders like Karn, Silver Golem and Kozilek, the Great Distortion have no color identity.
I believe that they can't actually create mana due to this reason, I'm looking for a confirmation or denial that this is true.
January 28, 2016 10:50 p.m.
Ender666666 says... #32
Please read the detailed addendum I wrote below the official statement, and all should be clear.
January 28, 2016 11:02 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #33
Personally, I would have prefered Rule 4 being changed to 'Mana of a colour not in your Commander's colour identity can only be used to pay for generic mana costs'. Keeps the same idea, and keeps the flavour, without opening it up to abuse.
Oh well. As it goes.
January 28, 2016 11:05 p.m.
From Command Tower Rulings:
- 9/22/2011 The color identity of your commander is set before the game begins and doesn't change during the game, even your commander is in a hidden zone (like the hand or library) or an effect changes your commander's color.
- 9/22/2011 If your commander is a card like Kozilek, Butcher of Truth that has no colors in its color identity, Command Tower's ability produces no mana.
- 9/22/2011 In formats other than Commander, Command Tower's ability produces no mana.
January 28, 2016 11:22 p.m.
Squirrel_of_War says... #36
Where is this info coming from? I didn't see any changes to the ban list on wizard's site.
January 30, 2016 10:34 a.m.
WOTC doesn't handle the banlist for EDH, the EDH Rules Committee does.
January 30, 2016 10:35 a.m.
lemmingllama says... #39
The people who posted this announcement are part of the Rules Committee. If you are unsure about the banlist and rules, going here is always your best bet since it will always be the most up to date. The forum at the bottom left is also where the official rules updates are posted.
January 30, 2016 10:44 a.m.
SealableZero says... #40
Prophet of kruphix needed to be banned. The power level of the card is really high. It does become a game of copying the prophet. Prophet promotes a negative experience in the game of edh. And from a "high level" prospective, prophet cost 0 if resolved since you untap your stuff. It's a free card that also gives you advantages. So Yes, it is worth running in every deck that can, to those that say it isn't. And I'm saying this as a spike player. And to the guy above me about the majority abusing it, you're missing the point. It's because of option of being able to abuse it that makes it needing to be banned.
January 30, 2016 10:56 a.m.
SealableZero says... #41
Oops. Scratch the above me part. That was one page one (which they need to fix. Current conversation should be on page one instead)
January 30, 2016 10:59 a.m.
So you can't use Command Tower to pay for Kozilek, the Great Distortion?
January 30, 2016 7:49 p.m.
_SeriosSkies_ says... #43
@Kilrane:
If Kozilek, the Great Distortion is your commander, Command Tower taps for nothing.
If hes in your 99, Command Tower can pay for part of the generic (8)
January 30, 2016 7:52 p.m.
_SeriosSkies_ I'll take your word for it. Doesn't make much sense since it is a new type of non-generic mana and is part of your commander's casting cost.
January 30, 2016 7:58 p.m. Edited.
Epochalyptik says... #45
It's not a new type of mana. Colorless mana has always existed.
Also, Command Tower specifies "color," not "type" or "kind."
January 30, 2016 8:10 p.m.
Epochalyptik Colorless didn't exist as a distinct mana type outside of generic mana. Command Tower was not printed when this distinction was made. I guess it's a moot point unless we start seeing shenanigan casting costs like this: 
January 30, 2016 8:47 p.m.
zyphermage says... #47
Colorless did exist as a distinct mana type before, that is why epoch and others are saying it isn't new. What is new is the label on it.
January 30, 2016 8:51 p.m.
Actually the ruling for clarification on Command Tower from Wizards uses Kozilek, Butcher of Truth as the example and states that it doesn't create any mana.
With the release of Oath, Wizards specifically stated that is NOT a new mana type. The ruling on Command Tower doesn't change. The new symbol is to clarify that Colorless must be spent on it, not any generic mana.
January 30, 2016 8:52 p.m.
So is the ruling on Kozilek, Butcher of Truth that it costs ?
January 30, 2016 8:58 p.m.
Cool. Did some looking and found this tweet: https://twitter.com/TrickMTG/status/675306104545505280
Thanks guys.
Kilrane says... #1
NarejED Narset has finally made a showing in my meta with a guy who put several hundred dollars into his deck. Now we have to plan around one specific card/deck because within 5 turns you lose. We didn't have to do that with Prophet we didn't spend hours theory crafting about how to stop PoK because it was so easy to get rid of it. Really, it wasn't even on our radar of things to complain about.
January 27, 2016 11:10 p.m.