Board wipes & land destruction
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 10, 2019, 10:42 a.m. by MtgSalt
I usually play edh with a small group in a friend's house, but decided to branch out and go to the local game store. I played Ghave, Guru of Spores a brew I made that won 90% of the games played. When I went to the local game store I lost every game, mafia and politics... I learned a new game. With Ghave it kills all at once and as I would go off people would say you can't do that. Mafia rules even if I kill everyone I still lose. Who knew..
Aside from that my main topic, board wipes and land destruction. Ghave ... Accidentally infinite by doing nothing deck has lots of land destruction, like a lot even infinite. This was frowned upon because the group hated land destruction. They say it makes the games take longer, and people can't play.
The same could be said for back to back board wipes. Ghave recovers easy from board wipes. My wurm tribal deck I started playing instead as to not piss people off and have groups to play, is super vulnerable to board wipes. I couldnt play any games just sat there drew cards on my draw step and passed.. Every game back to back board wipes. This includes artifact amd enchantment board wipes.
Question... Why the big fuss. Board wipes make games last hours, land destruction doesn't. What is the difference, they both suck but are both viable strategies. The only difference is I don't get pissed off when I can't play from being bored way back to back
They are just upset because they always over commit and are not prepared for board wipes. Land destruction can be seen as a big no no in edh, but nothing is really stopping you from doing it. Just expect to be targeted by the others when you do those kinds of things. Sometimes it’s better to hold back a little so someone else can become the ‘Archenemy’ first and then strike up deals to take them out while progressively building your board. You got to remember that Commander has become a game of politics and deals and making yourself out to be the main enemy will either guarantee you are the first to get knocked out or the first to get crippled enough to no longer be deemed a threat.
Just last night I had a game where some one was playing Karlov of the ghost council and it had five players so whenever he extorted he would gain 4 and drain us all by 1 each which he did multiple times a turn. This became the trend till he was at 60 life and I did a big swing at him knocking him all the way down to 2, then surprise surprise he is no longer the threat and no one wants to take him out before it gets back to his turn. He still went out of the game first, but he survived for 5-6 more turns since no one else bothered him after that and I had to focus elsewhere to not fall behind.
September 10, 2019 11:13 a.m.
People react bitterly when you prevent them from playing the way they want. It's no fault of yours. Land destruction is a legitimate strategy and can be effective, some people just have a particular hatred towards it.
September 10, 2019 11:13 a.m.
The main problem is the vast majority of the commander player base are indoctrinated into seeing anything but a midrange slog as unfun (hell to some degree you maybe at least partially among that mindset).
Now looking at your Ghave, Guru of Spores Because F' em I honestly have to ask if the local store group were all playing with precons with the power level of this ghave, I do suppose there was a new wave of them.
My advice then is if there's no entry fee and you somehow want to play with a wider variety of people build some kind of super unfun to play against boardwipe and counterspell tribal deck that I guess wins through mill with Ashiok, Dream Render or something or with extreme card advantage like Narset, Parter of Veils and Windfall . Then continue to build deck after deck that they don't like until they themselves are in contradiction with their own decks (essentially play a deck focused on what you hate done to you that they keep doing until they complain as well).
Now if there is an entry fee just build the best deck you have and destroy, if they have additional rules tagged on follow them and still crush, saw a league that had a rule about losing points if you destroy a land that tapped for less than 3 colors and didn't have utility, so I made sure to play Prismatic Omen before destroying all lands.
September 10, 2019 11:26 a.m.
Demarge the ghave deck you looked at isnt that good but it was faster than it looks. When I made that deck I had little knowledge of competitive edh and threw what cards I thought looked fun in there. This particular group doesn't play precons with the exception of the 2019 but i haven't been back recently enough to play against them.
I dont have the mind set you had mentioned. Modern is my main format so I have same mindset as that. Win fast, play multiple games.
September 10, 2019 11:54 a.m.
Demarge I like your deck strategy to mill and control.
September 10, 2019 11:59 a.m.
Joe_Ken_that just makes no sense to me why you let someone live that close to being knocked out, bolt the guy and move on with life.
It also sucks to have to play the politics to fit in. Just have to go with the flow I guess.... After I turn all their lands into creatures when they board wipe
September 10, 2019 12:16 p.m.
I appreciate all the feedback and responses oh, I am currently at work I can respond better when I get off. Just keep them coming
September 10, 2019 12:17 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #10
My experience has always been that any deck can recover from board wipes much better than it can recover from mass land destruction. MLD will set a game back to turn 0 every single time and rarely leads to a game ending any time soon. I don't discourage others from playing what they want though. It just means I have to make a few adjustments for the next game.
September 10, 2019 12:40 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #11
Any deck that can't recover from a couple board wipes just need to rethink their choices. Tell them to add draw, recursion, or more resilient creatures... potentially all of the above.
Any deck that casts mld better be able to win from it. I am perfectly fine with you destroying lands if something like kaalia is alreay on board on your side. If you destroy all my lands and durdle for 5-6 turns, I will be salty.
September 10, 2019 1:35 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #13
Interacting with players outside your normal circle is difficult. There's nothing inherently wrong with playing those strategies but sitting down with a group of strangers with varying levels of skill and deck construction can be tricky. At the end of the day play the way you want to play but be prepared to be barred from certain circles. If you want to play more cut throat strategies play in tournaments; no one should be able to complain if there's money or prize support on the line. Gauging power levels is important in maintaining a good diverse commander community.
September 10, 2019 4:10 p.m.
GhostChieftain I can sre mass land destruction and doing nothing else being annoying.
We can agree to disagree about the Board wipe recovery. That same deck that cant recover from back to back board wipes doesn't need to be re-thought on choices.
Probably just a bad deck for 6 player games with back to back board wipes, mixed with politics, amd a stupid game called mafia (the required game to play because it makes games faster.. ) any deck imo can be null playing in that environment.
To your advice though. In mono green how would you add recursion and more resilient creatures? I have a mono green Wurm Tribal that does well in groups of 3 or less but above that it doesnt recover once board wipes and politics go in play. I do keep Kamahl, Fist of Krosa in the deck to make them kill their lands if they board wipe but that is just one card. I did have Temur Sabertooth but it wasn't that effective or I didn't play it right.
September 10, 2019 11:24 p.m.
RNR_Gaming well put. Small gaming community here so not many comps, or groups to play with thats what sucks about just playing what I want.
September 10, 2019 11:26 p.m.
RNR_Gaming says... #16
Budget handicaps are usually my go to when a meta doesn't hasn't have strong players or decks; it's the only way I can sit down with casuals and not feel like I've brought a tank into their game of fisty cuffs.
September 10, 2019 11:48 p.m.
GhostChieftain says... #17
Eternal Witness , Finale of Devastation , Creeping Renaissance , Deadwood Treefolk , Genesis , Greenwarden of Murasa , Hatchery Spider , Moldgraf Monstrosity , Nature's Spiral , Noxious Revival , Paleoloth , Praetor's Counsel , Regrowth , Reincarnation , Revive , Seasons Past , Skullwinder , Verdant Confluence , and Wildwood Rebirth are all reasonable options and I am sure I am missing a few since I was going through this quickly at 2 am.
With mono g I would say get 3 or 4 of these and focus on keeping a full grip of cards even if it means cutting a few of your worst wurms to make it so you get to your good wurms faster. A Duskwatch Recruiter Flip is more helpful to you than something like Duskdale Wurm . Good draw and tutors make a deck much stronger than one just jam packed with big dudes.
There are also a few indestructible creatures that can be used if there are far too many board wipes to recover. Spearbreaker Behemoth , Impervious Greatwurm and Nylea, God of the Hunt are pretty fitting cards for wurms imo.
6 player games can be fun, but you are right, some decks don't really function well with that many. I always prefer 4 player games.
September 11, 2019 2:58 a.m.
dingusdingo says... #18
GhostChieftain speaks the truth and posted the bomb cards. I would add some wide stuff to get ahead in advantage as well, Wildest Dreams (extremely underrated card imo especially for casual) Harmonize Regal Force Shamanic Revelation
Overall, I think MLD is an extremely viable strategy, but as mentioned before, timing is crucial. If you drop it after securing a much stronger board state than anyone else, you've almost definitely sealed the game.
People get unhappy pretty fast because they want to actually play their cards, and they don't recognize that resource denial is a valid (and extremely strong) strategy. People will react similarly to a cost increaser stax deck with Sphere of Resistance Thorn of Amethyst Thalia, Guardian of Thraben Ethersworn Canonist Lodestone Golem Trinisphere Grand Arbiter Augustin IV and similar. That type of deck can shut out an entire table, but expect to have your board completely dismantled if someone slips out from your control.
I recommend bringing multiple decks to games, so you can gauge the power level if playing for fun. I have a $1100 semi competitive Kess deck that is tons of fun to play, but playing against 3 other players with a combined deck worth of $150 makes for extremely fast and boring games. Bring a battlecruiser, high powered, and competitive deck (or two high powered if you don't have a competitive) to all commander games if you don't know what the game will be like.
SynergyBuild says... #2
No big deal with land destruction or board wipes. If it is legal, it is fair game.
September 10, 2019 10:57 a.m.