Commander Deckbuilding Advice - A Resource
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Nov. 9, 2021, 1:37 a.m. by enpc
From time to time I see people create threads about "How do you build a commander deck?" and so I thought I would create this resource thread - the aim of which is not about specific deck help but where people can share more generic advice about how they approach deckbuilding. Please also note that while poeple can post about cEDH here, that is not the primary purpose of the thread (please indicate that if you're posting about it to avoid confusion).
When it comes to deckbuilding, my advice is that every deck needs 4 things (not counting the basics like "lands" or "100 cards in your deck, including your commander"). These are:
A win condition, card advantage, ramp and removal.
Win Condition - It's surprising how many decks actually forget this. But every deck should have a way of closing the game out. And not just "I've got some creatures, I guess I can turn sideways with them?". An actual strategy. If it's combo, then have a game ending combo (not just gaining infinite life or mana). If it's combat, then is it voltron damage, tokens, battlecruier? Once you have a strategy selected, ensure that you're adding cards to the deck which actually help move this forwards.
Card Advantage - This covers both tutors and draw. While most tutors are one-for-one (or sometimes less than one-for-one), it's important to have a way to get to the cards you need to win the game. Even 75% decks (i.e. decks specifically designed without tutors) should be running some kind of card draw to stop the game from stagnating. A good mix of repeatable card draw, one off card draw and tutors is important.
Ramp - Is a lot more nuanced than most people realise. From "how much ramp do I run?" to "What is that ramp?", there are a lot of ways to build a deck. The first rule about ramp is that there's no hard and fast you-must-do-this. But realistically your ramp should be based on the both the average CMC of your deck and its distribution, i.e. bigger spells means you need more ramp. The other thing to remember is that not all ramp is equal - big ramp spells (ones that create a large step change in your available mana moving forward) are good, but often times cost more to play. Cheaper ramp doesn't have as much single card impact, but can accelerate your early game allowing you to do more, sooner. If possible, splitting ramp between card types (mana dorks, mana rocks, land fetching, etc.) if possible is good as it provides your deck with more resilience. Similarly, balancing ramp spells between cheaper and more powerful effects is important. Though typically I would recommend leaning towards cheaper spells with more of them.
Removal - It's super important to have enough removal to make it effective. Having one kill spell in your deck is basically the same as having zero, if you can't consistenly enough hit some sort of removal then it's no good. The same goes for countermagic. Similarly with ramp, you having a mix of both efficient removal (1-2 mana if possible) and more flexible removal (for example the ability to destroy/exile any nonland permanent) is good. You don't want to always pay 5 mana for a kill spell, but you also don't want to lock yourself into very niche removal. It's also important to ensure that you have removal for multiple card types (only having creature rmoval to be hosed by an artifact sucks) and having some kind of mass removal is generally a good idea. You don't need a huge amount of mass removal when coupled with card advantage.
Have any advice you want to share here? Please feel free to. I would ask that people please try to keep advice more on the generic side and that poeple refrain from posting decklists here. Similarly, if you have a question then please ask but try to keep it more generic (also no decklists) as the point of this thread is to be a generic how-to.
Omniscience_is_life says... #3
I would agree with TypicalTimmy--if that 8th card in hand isn't doing much for you, you're wasting an invaluable resource.
That said, remember that you won't always have access to your commander, and that you must be able to play without them. If your deck can't function without its commander, you'd better be packing the best protection package in the universe. Or just make sure the internal synergy of your deck is good enough to carry on alone.
November 9, 2021 2:02 a.m.
TypicalTimmy says... #4
I build my decks to do 2 - 3 things max. Aside from ramp and draw, which every deck wants to have.
Let's look at Daxos the Returned. What does he want?
- Enchantments
- Tokens
Okay. Let's see. We know we want to get tokens out, and we see his activated ability is not a tap ability. So we should take advantage of this and have an immense amount of mana rocks. Yes these are artifacts, but what we want is to be able to activate his ability 3, 4 or even 5 times per turn. We need the mana, so we need the slots.
Next, we know we want enchantments. Let's look at what type of tokens he creates: They are both and tokens, so enchantments such as Bad Moon and Honor of the Pure work beautifully as early-game curve pieces, or late-game fast plays. Then you also have Righteous War which will hold synergy with both colors.
But an army of tokens isn't enough; You also want to stop opponents from interacting with you. Here, you can choose one of three routes:
- Lay hard into prisons so that nobody can touch you
- Lay hard into death & taxes to destroy plays
- Mixture of both
This comes down to your personal meta. If your meta sees lots of heavy combat, prisons are best. If your meta sees lots of combos and big plays, D&T is best. If your meta sees both, mixed is best.
But all things should revolve around Daxos pumping up his tokens. True Conviction, Whip of Erebos, Ethereal Absolution, Brave the Sands, Commander's Insignia, Death Pit Offering (Wonderful after a wrath, or early game), Etchings of the Chosen will protect Daxos... and these are just pump spells. There's so much more you can have going on in there, such as: Anointed Procession, Divine Visitation, Song of the Worldsoul, Sigil of the Empty Throne... you can combo Conspiracy with Endless Ranks of the Dead... if you give them lifelink, through the plethora of enchantments that do so, you have Necropotence, Greed and Erebos, God of the Dead who all serve as draw engines...
So my Daxos deck would do the following:
- Ramp INSANELY hard
- Massive amounts of enchantment anthems
- A mixture of prisons and stax effects
Go wide and tall at the same time while building offensive and defensive positions. No card you draw into will ever be a dud, because it'll always serve to strengthen your boardstate.
November 9, 2021 2:25 a.m.
When i build a commander deck i only focus on function and timing.
Functions that interact with each other will naturally develop synergy, while focusing on timing will naturally develop a healthy mana curve.
To build i play out a perfect game in my head then i lay out what cards i played in what order i played them in and use that as my base to build around.
Over the years i have developed two templets that support my needs
Adaptive
This Template Lowers Consistency And Supports 10 Functions Allowing Some Random Play.(Optimized)
Lands(32), High Priority Function (15), Medium Priority Function (20/2), Low Priority Function (21/3), Sideboard Functions (12/4)
Example:Kissed By A Dragon
High Priority Function: Pre Combat Ramp (15)
Medium Priority Function: Fetch (10)
Medium Priority Function: Extra Card Draw (10)
Low Priority Function: Post Combat Ramp (7)
Low Priority Function: Destroy Enchantment/Artifact (7)
Low Priority Function: Make Dragon Token (7)
Sideboard Function: Dig Deep (3)
Sideboard Function: Direct Damage (3)
Sideboard Function: Recycle (3)
Sideboard Function: Sheild (2) + Commander (1)
Non Adaptive
This Template Focus Is To Play 6 Functions In A Specific Order (Competitive)
Land (33), 1st (17), 2nd(14), 3rd(12), 4th(9), 5th(8), 6th(7).
Sorry No Examples To Link, As A Personal Rule I Don't Share My Real Decks
Basic Example:
1st Ramp(17)
2nd Draw(14)
3rd Combo(12)
4th Respond(9)
5th Remove(8)
6th Tutor(7)
As i stated earlier "while focusing on timing will naturally develop a healthy mana curve" just keep in mind how much mana you will have available at the time that you want to play. knowing that high priority and 1st are targeting to be the first card you play in a game picking a 3cmc in the slot may not be the best choice
To tune a deck i separate the cards out by function and organize each function in order of cmc. then my decisions of cutting and replacing is based on what cards can perform that function the best for the amount of mana i spend to cast it.
November 9, 2021 7:54 a.m.
P.s. simplifying the build process this way puts me at an average of about two hours to go from deck concept to fully tuned, sleeved, shuffled and ready to play.
November 9, 2021 8:09 a.m.
griffstick says... #7
Most my decks lay between a 6-7 power. So that's where my advice is coming from.
- Come up with a deck idea
- look for precons with that deck idea to get started with.
- if no precon, find cmdr that's enables deck idea.
In order of importance
-
ramp: 14 to 17 sources of ramp. If your cmdr adds ramp these numbers may vary.
-
draw: 12 or more sources of draw. Draw is just as important as ramp. If your cmdr draws cards you'll need less card draw.
-
removal: about 10 to 12 sources of targeted removal or counterspells and at least 2 board wipes. P.s. try to find removal on cards that coexist with your deck idea.for instance, if your building an Elf deck then run Reclamation Sage over Filigree Fracture.
-
enablers and enhancers: find cards that make the deck hum. Cards that lean into the deck idea. Cards that make your cmdr better. For instance Selvala, Explorer Returned really likes cards that untap her like Instill Energy. Cards that pair well with multiple cards in the deck, synergy.
-
combo/s: find a combo that not just works if the combo cards are together, but each card by its self synergizes with the rest of the deck.
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test: play the deck and find what's working and find what's not working. If you play a game and a certain card sits in your hand for several turns and you continue to not use it. Consider it for another card and make the change. Testing will help you fine tune your deck and build a deck that can win and have fun doing it.
-
Look for overlap: this is the last part of improvements to the deck. Find cards in the deck that only hit one part of what the deck is doing and look for a card to replace it with that does the same thing but also does other things as well. For instance if your mono black vampire deck has Caged Sun try replacing it with Nirkana Revenant. Anyway I have never put together something like this, but I was trying to keep it short and simple. If I would add more I would but maybe next time.
November 9, 2021 11:40 a.m. Edited.
Grubbernaut says... #8
Nothing is worse than a value pile that can never win games, at least as an adult with a busy schedule. If I've set aside 3 hours to play and you durdle for 2.5 of them, I'm bummed out.
So, yes, 100% agree on the reminder to have a danged win condition.
November 9, 2021 12:42 p.m.
I'm going take all of this advice and apply it to a deck I've been struggling with, to see what happens. I've never been good at "serious" Commander building, so I appreciate this thread.
November 10, 2021 3:32 p.m.
legendofa advice is never ending and so is my posting. Lol
The only things that mater about a commander deck is that you enjoy playing it and that your on par in your meta. (Meaning you deck fits in with the friends you play with)
Everything else is just hype
November 10, 2021 5:34 p.m.
Ramble Good pep talk :)
Yeah, the deck I have in mind isn't fun yet. I think it's got potential, but it's not ready for my local meta at the level I'm looking for yet. Nothing too powerful, I'm not going competitive, but it's slower and clunkier than I want.
November 10, 2021 7:46 p.m.
Since this thread is useful to new players but hasn't been bumped recently, I'll add my two cents.
Building isn't a one-and-done, you should always be testing. It's really ideal to build one deck and play it a whole lot. You'll find out real quick which cards seemed a good idea but aren't, which are hidden gems, and what the hidden synergies are that you want to amplify. You'll learn whether you are able to draw cards consistently and whether or not your mana and ramp actually work. If you are mana screwed every time, it isn't just bad luck! It isn't about just adding cards when a shiny new set comes out- it's about really knowing what your deck is good at, what it needs, and what you enjoy. You can't learn that without playing it a lot.
Case in point, one of the guys in my playgroup played the same deck every week for a year and a half before starting his second deck. And darn, he got so good at it. He was running synergies and combos that even I didn't see coming, and we'd think we had cut him down to size and he would win out of nowhere. His deck didn't start out this good- he learned it really well and made the changes he needed to. Meanwhile, other friends would swap around precons here and there with a few janky cards going into and out of them for good measure, and enjoyed far less success. Every game is a rehearsal for the next, and as far as decks go, you'll be a happier and better player if you go deep before you go wide.
February 18, 2022 11:09 p.m.
I started as a standard player. Shifting into modern because I wasn’t a fan of rotation. So spikey is putting it nicely. But one day my friend started talking about commander. I’d heard about it at tournaments and it was always looked down on as a casual format.
Well anyway I decide to build a deck finally so my friend and I could play and it was totally fun and I lost every game! I built a deck the way I would’ve when I played more competitive formats. Only thing is that play style doesn’t inherently translate into edh, not right away.
I bring this up because I, a spike, had to shift my deck building mindset. I had to shift gears and learn a new format of deck building entirely. I began becoming a bit vorthosy. Building to a story, a theme etc. then into interests of play style. I began to expand and stretch my wings into new color combinations. Actually my second deck I built was 5 color jodah good stuff haha.
I got the idea for the jodah deck because I wanted to build around a nicol bolas planeswalker I had but then learned that wasn’t how it worked haha. Then I started thinking, why not all 5 colors! The jodah deck was so fun. It was big splashy spells and big splashy plays. When they went off it was lovely!
That was fun for a time until my playgroup started to improve. They began to understand mana curve in a 100card format. Understand ratios of card draw, mana ramp etc. I understood card draw, that was important in modern as well. Less important was mana ramp. Of course deathrite shaman fit into a lot of decks. But mostly you played low to the ground and fast, at least I did and it was glorious! So no real need for ramp, at least not to the degree that you need in edh.
So now I’m understanding more of the basics and I find myself competitive again. I’m understanding mostly how to build a deck, no clever understandings yet but they come later. But now I’m hard into combo. It’s fun, fast and almost always a win! The faces around the table are smiling for me and it’s great. But then it starts to feel cheap. My friends aren’t doing these things. Sure they have these amazingly synergistic plays that do these powerful things. But not infinite combos. So I started to feel like I needed to make a change to my deck building format. I didn’t understand synergy. Not in a singleton format anyways.
So now the struggle to change my entire deck building mindset begins. I start looking for weird deck builds. Fringe. I go for cycling and fall in love with approach. I start getting linear though. Building for a single purpose. Which is lovely, a couple times. But I craved versatility, adaptability. A deck I could play over and over again and something new could happen each time. Like my old jodah deck! But more streamlined and playable at a table of more seasoned players.
The metamorphosis from standard to edh. From beginner builder to, well where I am now. It’s been a lovely journey. And I’ve loved everything I learned along the way. I’ve always enjoyed building my own decks. But I’ve taken plenty of ideas from the internet too and slowly adapted them to my play style.
I wanted to share this for any new players. Sometimes starting something new like edh is daunting. But don’t let that discourage you. Building your own decks can seem entirely overwhelming but don’t let that stop you either. Net deck something or get a precon. Start watching videos and reading articles for deck tips. Learn and try different play styles and feel out what fits you.
My favorite thing about commander is how personal it can be. You can build a little piece of your soul into a deck and share it with others. But don’t be discouraged if it doesn’t work! You shuffle those cards back into your bulk and try all over again baby doll!
Idk where this was really going. But I wanted to share my growth in the format and deck building generally for any new players in the format. If you have any questions please reach out!
May 4, 2022 5:04 p.m.
Guerric “Go deep before you go wide!” I love that so much! I’m gonna use that lol.
May 4, 2022 5:07 p.m.
I have some deckbuilding advice. I'll make it concise:
The Three Problems
Your goal is to play a winning combination of cards before your opponent can do the same. To do this, you need to draw the right cards, be able to cast them, and do this faster than your opponent despite their efforts to stop you. These are the Three Problems your deck is trying to solve. It is tempting to fill your deck with only cards that work towards a build-around commander, but if you do, you'll have 4 or 5 mana available on turn 6, you won't be able to stop your opponent's threats, and you won't be drawing the cards you need. Follow the quantity recommendations below to deal with the Three Problems and still get to play your strategy.
Include 28 lands, plus 2 for each color, plus the average mana cost of your deck. So for a typical 3 color deck, you're looking at 39-ish lands.
Include 10 cards that let you deal with threats at instant speed. Every opponent uses artifacts, enchantments, and creatures, and you often need to disrupt a combo that's about to go off when it's not your turn.
Include 10 cards that net you more cards. With a high density of card draw spells, you are more likely to draw into your next draw spell and never run out of things to do.
Include 10 cards with low mana cost (3 or less) that give you more mana. Generally for every 2 mana rocks above this number that cost 0 to 2, you can cut one land.
Include up to 5 "win-more" cards, not more. These are cards like Doubling Season that are only good when your deck is already doing what it's supposed to do.
Include 1-2 spells that serve as a big finisher that works even when you're losing. Examples: Rise of the Dark Realms, Insurrection, Expropriate, Primal Surge, or Overwhelming Splendor.
Include 1 card that hurts decks that use the graveyard, such as Tormod's Crypt.
Include 1 card that recycles your graveyard, especially if it can be played from the graveyard or activates when milled. Gaea's Blessing is a good one. Feldon's Cane is especially good if you are using your graveyard and you would rather have your graveyard be in your library than exiled by someone's Bojuka Bog.
Include 1 board wipe, but it must fit the theme of your deck and break parity. For example, All is Dust when you're playing colorless, Living Death when you're playing reanimator, Hour of Reckoning when you're playing tokens, Cyclonic Rift in blue, etc. The more one-sided, the better.
Include 20 creatures, at least 10 of which can be played by turn 3. Some of these cards can double as your removal, ramp, or draw, or strategy cards. Having creatures prevents you from taking opportunistic early combat damage, and helps you recover quickly after a board wipe. Creatures with ETB effects are more valuable when you can blink or reanimate them.
Include 20-30 cards that work with your deck's strategy. It seems like not enough, but when you include more than this, you're cutting removal, draw, or ramp, which are all necessary for dealing with the Three Problems. Also don't forget that when you have enough card draw, you'll have access to most of these strategy cards.
May 30, 2023 2:32 p.m.
leon_bulminot says... #17
I find one rule of thumb that I TRY to follow for any EDH deck I make, especially when cutting/adding cards is a 10% rule. Does said card interact with at least 10 other cards in the deck?
Then you have to look at quality of interaction. Sure I love cards like Maskwood Nexus because it always hits that marker. But WHAT is being hit with that marker? Am I making my Eldrazi into Slivers? Am I ensuring that my Elementals with Landfall hit all of my onboard creatures? Or am I trying to make sure Indomitable Archangel is dropping indestructible on all of my board via Mycosynth Lattice or chaining off of Memnarch?
That brings us to the "why" is there interaction. Why do I want my Eldrazi to get buffed by my Slivers? That should answer itself. But, what about an enchantment deck? Would Maskwood benefit it?
Basically I try and follow the 10% rule, while answering Who, What, When, Where, Why, AND the most important question: How. And I try to have at least 2 answers for three of the six questions, but at least one answer for all 6.
Then, even after all of that, I ask the final question of "Does anything do this, but better?" Best example would be a cloning/copy deck using Mirror Gallery versus Mirror Box. A murkier version is Bonds of Mortality versus Shadowspear. Card draw versus creature bump with lifelink and trample. And required colored mana over colorless?
This is more for editing a deck BUT it definitely helps while initial building. Once you hit the 100 cards, run the 10% test. But just make sure the deck is STILL fun. If you build a deck using all the guides and rules and you have no fun playing the deck, you miss what EDH is supposed to be about.
January 14, 2024 3:23 a.m.
leon_bulminot, my 10% rule is "20% unless it interacts with the commander" and I end up including very few "win-more" cards because of that. Perhaps I should be more lenient? Take Anointed Procession for example: If I cast this card, it does nothing by itself. If my commander makes tokens (e.g. Kykar, Wind's Fury or my deck is making tokens, (e.g. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice, then it makes sense to include it.
For a while, I had been keeping Rooftop Storm in my Nevinyrral, Urborg Tyrant deck because it lets me cast my commander for free, and this combos infinitely with an Ashnod's Altar in play, making infinite zombies or wahtever. But, as I took the zombies out and replaced them with more non-zombie aristocrats, I decided to finally remove the card. Again, just not enough interaction with the rest of the deck. Win-more cards are deckbuilding traps, in my opinion.
TypicalTimmy says... #2
Build. Around. Your. Commander.
I see quite often decks select a Commander, but the cards within the +99 or +98 (or even +97 if you're a madlad) have almost no true synergy with what their Commander wants. For example, if you want to build Basandra, Battle Seraph then you need to understand her personal goal: "Players can not cast spells during combat". The best way to build her is to lock yourself in as much combat as possible, preventing anyone from interacting with you. Cram as many additional combat spells and abilities into the deck and ensure you are hitting 3, 4, hell even 7 combat phases per turn and win before you reach the end step.
Want to build Horde of Notions? Ask yourself: If I am able to play Elementals from my graveyard, how do I get them into there? Answer: Discard and mill. Dump your library ASAP to play everything. Your graveyard becomes one massive tutor.
Daxos the Returned? You better have dozens, like +80% of your nonland cards, be enchantments. I've seen decks with like... 12 enchantments? My guy what are you doing??
Please. Build around your Commander at all times. That's how you'll win. It's also how you'll have the most fun. Why is that? Because your Commander is realistically the only card you can cast as often as you'd like in the game. If you build around your Commander, no card you draw into will ever truly be a dead card in hand, because you'll always have some sort of synergy you can build into.
November 9, 2021 1:52 a.m.