I keep losing to Precon decks!!! Help???
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on June 29, 2022, 6:57 p.m. by Swebb87
Hi, I've been playing for 4 years now, exclusively commander. I have 31 decks and all are well built, correct mana bases, built largely on curve, with good synergies etc. I don't have any infinite combos but outside of that they are relatively strong decks average cost is $375-$500. However, I keep losing to Precon decks, they are being piloted by someone who has played for 20 years. Am I losing because he is jist a good player and the precons aren't exactly bad? Is it bad game play from me? I know this is an impossible question to answer without you all being able see me play but any thoughts are welcome. I'd be happy to link my moxfield account but wasn't sure if that was against tappedout protocols and didn't want to cause offence. Thanks all in advance!
TypicalTimmy says... #3
Precons have been getting stronger, but likely it's just their experience over your own. Threat assessment is a real thing and knowing what to remove or stop will often break a game, or a deck, in half.
June 29, 2022 7:29 p.m.
This is one of the reasons why I fear individual players and their particular decks and not individual commanders. I used to play with a group that would run the jankiest shit like Reaper King tribal scarecrows combo or Bladewing the Risen storm - things that when you hear about them your first thought is "What the fuck? How does that work?". However, the players behind those decks are absolute monsters and will win out of nowhere turn two or three. Easily some of the best players I've ever played with, and a big reason why I love tuning my decks to be the best they can be.
June 29, 2022 11:02 p.m. Edited.
Thanks for all the comments so far. I'm going to post a link to my moxfield decklists, however in no way am I trying breach any group rules so please let me know if I need to delete. https://www.moxfield.com/users/ITAC87
June 30, 2022 3:10 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #6
Looking through those there are improvements that could be made but that's the same of every deck lol. Your decks should be able to hold their own and win games too from a brief look. This seems more a case of threat assessment, bad luck, and being outplayed. There is a significant gap between their 20 years and your 4 years with the game. I'd recommend watching some of the folks on youtube. I don't always agree with them but they are generally good players.
The Command Zone is a good one. They've made at least one video all about threat assessment.
The Commander's Quarters is cool, takes the super budget route but still strong decks.
EDHrec Cast covers topics more than decks. I particularly like the challenge the stats they do in each episode. Where they share cards that show or don't show up in their stats from their website and explain why they think it should or shouldn't be there.
Those will give you a lot more information than we can just here in this forum. They've been piling up content for years now.
Of course you'll also never win every game against even the worst deck. Just how the game works. But I think those sources might be able to help you up your percentage of wins.
June 30, 2022 6:07 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #7
I took a look at 5 of the decks and to me they all have the exact same problems that pre-cons have, so it is unsurprising that your more experienced opponent is winning with pre-cons. Your mana curves are outrageously high with too many lands and not enough ramp.
Comparing your Colfenor, the Last Yew deck to my Ghave, Guru of Spores deck that has been purposely powered down to not stomp pre-cons and my Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons deck since you have access to at least all the cards I run in those decks. You have an average CMC of 3.69 compared to 3.64 (Ghave) and 3.11 (Hapatra). This makes it so that you need more mana to do anything.
You run 37 lands and 5 ramp (I am not counting anything over 4 mana, as that is what you are ramping into, not when you want to ramp) as compared to 33/19 (Ghave) and 33/11 (Hapatra). For my own counts I didn't count anything over 3 mana or the altars. This makes it so that you are waiting longer to get your mana.
June 30, 2022 6:27 p.m.
Yeah, as Gidgetimer said, CMC is extremely important. Usually I try to stick to below an average CMC of ~2.5 when building my decks, or if they're based on lands, ~2.75. That's also including at least 8~15 pieces of ramp via artifacts, creatures, and land-based ramp such as Exploration. You want to win more games and overall have a smoother experience? Lower your CMC.
June 30, 2022 9 p.m.
A massive thank you to all of you who have commented. A big thanks to Gidgetimer and AstroAA for their detailed looks at the decks. I will absolutely start going through my decks and look to start increasing ramp, reducing some lands and definitely the overall CMC. Really appreciate the help everyone!
July 1, 2022 7:06 p.m.
ok maybe im wrong about this but ill say it anyway, if you have that much value in your decks, wich you have :v its either ramp or decitions that u need to focus on more if precon decks keep messin with u xd. Sometimes practice is all it takes. =)
DrukenReaps says... #2
I don't know about sharing a list from mox to here but if you could copy a list and put it here then link it to this we could see at least 1 of your decks and give you some ideas.
June 29, 2022 7:05 p.m.