Is this actually frowned upon or is he salty?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 28, 2016, 10:26 p.m. by mavoricke
So I discarded Pathrazer of Ulamog on turn one instead of playing mana. 2 turns later I play Exhume and turn after I play Phyresis on the Pathrazer. Now I was told that that's just a really mean thing to do and is very frowned upon. So what was it that was wrong. the fact that I recurred a 9/9 meanie on turn 3 or that I gave it infect which mind you was destroyed before it got back to my turn.
Nothing wrong with it. You used the cards you had within the rules of the game, yes it's not great to be facing off against a 9/9 on turn 3, add on infect and I would be pissng myself, but you got it out fair and square. Whoever it was was just being a salty little bugger. If it had been reversed he would have done the same thing as you most likely.
September 28, 2016 10:38 p.m.
Sim_Will_CMcantfindmehopefully says... #4
I admit I would be pissed. I will also admit that it depends on the playgroup and environment.
September 28, 2016 10:40 p.m.
Raging_Squiggle says... #5
He salty 'cause he wasn't able to get that sweet 9/9 infect-osaur.
Play with what you got in your hand. If it results in a board state like that, so be it. Just shuffle up and ready for round 2.
September 28, 2016 10:45 p.m.
Megalomania says... #6
I see a lot of decks that are able to win the game on turn 3 so I don't see anything wrong seeing a 9/9 creature with infect that early. As long as everything was done within the rules of the format, I don't see anything wrong with it,
September 28, 2016 10:46 p.m.
Mean? No. Impolite? No. Lucky? Maybe. Legal? Yes. Clever? HELL YEAH!
Don't sweat it. And don't abuse that combo.
Cheers!
September 28, 2016 10:48 p.m.
I believe he was just salty. That's the way it goes. I just recently lost to a Turn 2, Alesha, Who Smiles at Death + Master of Cruelties combo. It wasn't fun for me, I didn't like losing, but I had to respect the combo.
I paid him back the next game with a Turn 3, Exile his Library. We both laughed and enjoyed each others combos. That is how it's supposed to be done.
A suggestion I would have though, don't play a combo like that when it won't kill somebody. It will bring hate from at least that player. It's best to make it a kill.
September 28, 2016 10:59 p.m.
well this deck doesn't technically have any combos irlts a rakdos, Lord of Riots deck. I play about 4 recursion spells for the late game when I've ran all out of gas. this was just like super luck. I lost the game anyway cause they made me feel bad so I just kinda play stupid so they wouldn't say anything
September 28, 2016 11:17 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #10
Something like this is perfectly legal but you should consult your group about "house rules" - some ban Annihilator, some ban Infect, some ban combos, etc. Having set expectations at the beginning of a match will make it more enjoyable for everyone.
September 28, 2016 11:25 p.m.
Fleetwood-Mat says... #11
There are some early commander games that can get pretty crazy. I don't think there's anything wrong with what you did, there is always the option to Counterspell, Toxic Deluge, or simply stop sandbagging that Cyclonic Rift for that "opportune" moment and use it to save your ass. Also, you wouldn't be able to get that off continuously since there are 1 and 0 mana cards that stop that combo too (Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, etc...), not to mention every so often guys start the game with Leyline of the Void on the board, or maybe you'll run into the Nahiri prebuild and get Containment Priest all up in there.
Commander is all about crazy interactions like that, I play MTGO all the time, and I've seen some of the cleverest things in Commander games. The good players don't complain when they lose, they learn from their losses and prepare themselves better next time. A good deck is never truly vulnerable, and will often turn the tide of overwhelming odds using ingenuity.The best plays are where you can turn a bad situation into a great one, and when you play enough, you tend to notice which cards contribute most to creating these reversals.
Also, like the guys above said, if he got the mana to do the broken combos he was building up to, he'd do it no hesitation... I really think if people want to play commander, they shouldn't complain when commander-legal stuff happens in the game, it always tends to lead to house rules, house bannings, bitterness over bannings (leads to more blatantly broken combos and netdecks coming in)... just play the game, if you lose, whatevs, if you're forced to sit through unlimited extra turns, just scoop! There is nothing that can't be answered or dealt with in Commander, simple as that.
September 28, 2016 11:28 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #12
I've resolved infinite mana on T3 using Grand Architect + Pili-Pala , paying into Behold the Beyond to fetch Gravecrawler, Diregraf Captain, and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born just to kill everyone with 2,582,961,652,862 damage and no one got salty with me.
TL:DR- That guy was being salty
September 29, 2016 12:11 a.m.
Onion_duck says... #13
Seems salty to me. Yes it is annoying to have something like that happen to you but it happens so rarely considering the deck consists of one-ofs. I've done the turn 1 discard, turn 2 Reanimate and have had it done to me many times. I find a turn 1 Serra Ascendant to be far more annoying.
September 29, 2016 1:20 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #14
Salty is all. I've dropped a Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger T1 before. Stuff like that is just a part of EDH: explosive plays.
September 29, 2016 8:37 a.m.
While it isn't frowned upon, it does make you the threat for that game. And potentially the rest of the night. It's seen as unfun in my playgroup, but doesn't mean you can't do it. Just know you're setting a target on your back. If you can deal with that, more power to ya!
September 29, 2016 8:56 a.m.
What's lame is that they made you feel bad about it. You played out a lucky hand just like anyone else would. No one can fault you for that.
A friend once T1 discarded Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, T2 land into Reanimate, then I let everyone discard their hand before playing Pongify on my turn. TALK ABOUT SALT. They didn't know who to hate more; me or the person who played jin lol
September 29, 2016 8:57 a.m.
BerserkWin says... #17
Infect is the gray area to me. It's impossible, in my opinion, to answer your question in a vacuum (i.e., without having an understanding of what's kosher in your playgroup). That judgment would have to come from within the playgroup.
I like when people with a relatively high amount of Infect creatures (or ways to give their creatures Infect) in their decks establish how the playgroup wants to handle it before the game begins, so there's no whining later.
Off topic, but personally, I think death-by-poision staying at 10+ in an EDH/Commander game is stupid: We've already established that we should increase our starting life totals by double that of a "normal" game. I personally think infect should follow suite, but it's entirely up to the playgroup.
September 29, 2016 10:34 a.m.
libraryjoy says... #18
Berserk - in my playgroup, we've done just that. Infect count is 20 for a kill. It just makes sense.
About the situation, all I can say is make sure your playgroup's expectations are clear from the get-go. That way you know what's "frowned upon" up front, since different people "frown upon" different things. My playgroup is not big on control in EDH (at least let everybody else have some fun), so someone waltzing in with counterspell.dec would get many frowns, but in other places it might be just fine.
September 29, 2016 10:42 a.m.
this was my first commander deck that I built and that's the only card I have that has infect in it. and they look I me like I was death so I said fuck it and let the infect die
September 29, 2016 11:25 a.m.
It's freaking annoying, but I don't think it's bad unless your deck does it every game.
September 29, 2016 11:45 a.m.
whatevs. If it was on a power 10+ creature, all the better. If opponents are too focused on their own strategy when deck building and don't include any kind of removal, that's there problem and they deserve to lose for building too greedily. 1 Go for the Throat or Doomblade or Innocent Blood later and you are down 3 cards to their one - a position I would love to be in as your opponent. I have a feeling they were whining for the fact of infect existing more than anything. Well, infect is a thing people, get used to it, and what's more, it isn't insanely overpowered like people love to say because if it was, then key cards like Tainted Strike and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon would be banned in EDH, which they are not.
September 29, 2016 11:53 a.m.
Triumph of the Hordes is a great, unexpected wincon
September 29, 2016 1:56 p.m.
genericaura says... #23
In my experience, there's three major groups of house rules. Competitive, Casual, and Salty. Competitive allows anything not banned and turn 3 kills are common. It takes a lot of skill and good cards to play in that sort of group. Casual typically says no infinite turns, no infinite damage, and (sometimes) no infinite mana. Pretty fun, and you can play a less than optimized deck. Salty playgroups ban anything their decks can't handle, from specific cards to boardwipes to infect. Don't play with them. If it isn't infinite and it's legal, then there's really no reason to complain.
September 29, 2016 2:47 p.m.
Tyrant-Thanatos says... #24
Depends on the playgroup and their goals. EDH is supposed to be a casual and fun format, and many players would find that anti-fun. Most playgroups have house rules as well, to help prevent un-fun shenanigans.
He's definitely salty, but I wouldn't say his salt is unfounded. If he built his deck around the powerlevel his playgroup plays at, and some guy swoops in and facerolls the game with stuff like that, he's bound to be salty. I would be.
The idea I see running around in this thread that "it isn't banned dur-hur" is ridiculous to say the least. Assuming WotC are perfect angels that have never printed a broken card, and that the EDH banlist is perfect and flawless as well is absurd, and the whole argument stands upon that assumption.
WotC didn't design Infect around EDH, they designed it around Standard. It runs rampant in eternal formats, so it's only natural that it'd be "OP" in a more casual format like EDH.
My only warning, because I've seen this happen, is this: If your deck regularly causes people to become upset, or spoils their fun, and you continue to use it in that manner, don't be surprised when they refuse to play with you anymore.
September 29, 2016 3:15 p.m.
Dredge4life says... #25
Commander isn't a casual format. It is a social format. Group politics and interaction don't always mean casual. CEDH has existed for awhile now, and the best of the best of tier one decks consistently combo out turns 1-3. 9/9 annihilator infect is just par for the course imo.
Also, the infect creatures are all very tiny, so poison would be very difficult to play effectively if they had to hit people for any higher than ten with 1/1s and 2/2s.
September 29, 2016 7:40 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #26
infect and annihilator are the most frowned upon mechanics in any kind of friendly environment.
September 30, 2016 11:19 a.m.
mountainturtle93 says... #27
I would say salty, to me infect as a consistent win con is cheap, but like it was stated earlier there is always an answer to everything.
September 30, 2016 9:20 p.m.
mountainturtle93 says... #28
I think it just depends on the group and everyone's mood for the day. Me and my LGS are notorious in the area for some savage games of commander, and super competitive, I personally think that if you have a play in your hand you should take it.
October 2, 2016 3:59 a.m.
well after talking to all of them I said screw it took out the Phyresis and put in Ghoulcaller Gisa
TeysaEnvoyofRoasts says... #2
I don't see that as frowned upon, just really lucky and playing with the luck you got. Since when are you not supposed to do your best with the cards you get? I guarantee if on T4-6 he got whatever broken combo he had in his deck that he would have played it. Then again if your deck is built to do that by T3 every single time it probably wouldn't be that much fun to play against you.
September 28, 2016 10:36 p.m.