It's Time Moxes Were EDH Legal
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Nov. 27, 2019, 5:51 p.m. by Rabid_Wombat
Obviously not the already Commander legal Moxen (Chrome, Amber, Opal and Diamond) but the original Five Moxes (Emerald, Jet, Pearl, Sapphire and Ruby)
They make all Commanders easier to cast and as a result EDH is a lot more fun to play. Nothing gives you that feeling of old-school power than a first turn Mox (except for dropping a Black Lotus lol) and a lot of players today don't even know what that feels like...which is sad.
Given they will never be reprinted, a lot of players will never know what that feels like, even if they were legal in EDH lol. EDH doesn't need them. EDH has enough ramp to make commanders easier to cast, moxen would be cool, but they are not necessary
November 27, 2019 6:05 p.m.
Just use a foil basic lands to signify the mox you have in your deck.
November 27, 2019 6:10 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #5
When WotC needs the money the Moxies will be reprinted....in case you start banging on about the Reserved List just remember that the definition of "Reserved" means "set aside for later use" lol
StopShot I gots all five brother...scored them from Dan Bock for around $500 a piece back in 2010 :D
November 27, 2019 8:14 p.m.
Turn one wins are bad for the game, and fast mana increases the ability to pull one off. The original Moxen are broken in a way that no other fast mana is - it is coloured mana (i.e. can be used to cast important combo pieces or finishers) with no restriction or requirement for use (such as diamond or Chrome).
Sure, it might be fun for the person who casts the Moxen; but for everyone else, you’re just increasing the chances player one can win before anyone else has even played their first turn. That’s not good game design, and firmly justifies keeping the Moxen banned.
Rabid_Wombat - They will not be reprinting the reserve list; it would end up costing them a ton in legal fees, with the potential for an award of damages being made against them. There are plenty of high-value cards they can reprint that don’t carry the legal baggage of the RL (such as the one-shot Bitterblossom reprint they’re about to do; or, if they are really desperate, Imperial Seal and other old non-RL cards).
November 27, 2019 8:30 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #8
Caerwyn Actually the Reserved List can be reprinted without a "ton of legal fees" or "damages" lol Educate yourself:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/contract-from-below-promissory-estoppel-and-the-reserved-list
November 28, 2019 2:59 a.m.
The reserve list has always been a horrible idea. One day someone smart will figure out how to free those poor cards from limbo and reprint them I hope. But until that mythical day that happens, unbanning those cards is just a dumb idea.
November 28, 2019 8:05 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat - I am not exactly sure what your point is in linking to that article - the ultimate conclusion is that there would, in fact, be a claim in equity. The existence of a claim means someone, possibly many someone’s, will file a lawsuit - and lawsuits are pretty darn expensive. Even during the pendency of a lawsuit, there could be additional expenses, such as an injunction preventing the spoiled set containing the RL from shipping in the first place.
As for the success of the hypothetical lawsuit, the author left that question unanswered, with the promise of a follow-up article that was never delivered.
There is a good reason for the lack of follow-up - the question of the potential suit’s success is impossible to answer without any precedent. Having spent a number of hours on Westlaw (a database used to search cases across multitudes of jurisdictions), I could not find a single case that was congruent with the potential issues of reprinting the Reserve List.
Speaking as an attorney, equitable cases of first impression are terrifying. Personally, I find it even more frightening than a case that is bad for me - at least with a bad case I can distinguish my own matter and twist the bad case’s language to my cause. But with nothing, particularly nothing in equity, the judge has a lot of leeway. Without precedent offering its guidance, you are at the mercy of whichever judge you end up getting.
Wizards’ legal almost certainly has the same fear of uncertainty, and is likely rather risk-adverse. Even if they think there is a good chance they would win potential litigation, they are not going to allow RL reprints until they are 100% certain. With no other companies really dealing in the same field as Wizards, that pretty much means the precedent concerning potential certainty will never be generated; thus certainty likely never being obtainable.
November 28, 2019 8:59 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #11
TypicalTimmy speaking of Rudy did you see the video on Youtube where he says he has already lost over a million bucks value from his collection due to Legacy being dumped as a format by SCG etc.. due to the arrival of Pioneer??
This is how I believe that Wizards will kill off the Reserved List...if you remove the ability for people to play the cards in Vintage/Legacy due to the non-existence of those formats they become mere curiosities that sad, old people will look at in dusty binders and reminisce on how much money they once were worth.
Then WotC can reprint everything on the RL in a few years time and no-one will really give a shit as all those old school cards will be worth next to nothing...then we will see full art foil P9 Moxes being released in a Secret Lair style marketing blitz for $100 bucks a pop...shipping not included ;)
December 1, 2019 1:14 a.m.
dingusdingo says... #12
If there are ever going to be reprints or a way to weasel around the policy, it will be from
- All policies apply only to tournament-legal Magic cards in printed form. Wizards of the Coast has and may continue to print special versions of cards not meant for regular game play, such as oversized cards. The restriction also does not apply on non-redeemable digital cards in Magic Online or MTG Arena.
Wizards can get around the restriction by printing special edition cards. Think of the Amokhet invocations or the Kaladesh inventions. Whether they will choose to is another issue. They've currently said they don't want to get around the list with premium cards, but if they reverse their stance this is most likely how they'll do it.
Personally, I think Wizards will dance around the issue with a single reprint every once in a blue moon. Reprinting their oldest, rarest, and most sought after cards would be massively devaluing their own product and brand. It will also shatter collector's faith in Wizards. Can't speak to the legal side of the issue, but I imagine Wizards wouldn't want to open the door for a lawsuit to walk in.
Legacy/Vintage are for dinosaurs anyways. The cards are owned by older players and the events usually require travel/time off from work, something older players will have an easier time with. Wizards creating a new format after RL talk stirs up again should also be a sign, formats are more partitions for when people started collecting. Normally this would be fine, but the new biggest format Commander reaches across the traditional format age/set boundaries which is driving prices of older cards with lower supply.
Another potential work around I see for the RL is a direct-to-legacy/vintage/commander powerset similar to Modern Horizons. Nonbasic lands with one basic type that ETB and opponent pick another basic type for you, a new set of moxes that lets an opponent fateseal you, a charcoal lotus that sacs for 2 mana of any type, you get the point.
December 4, 2019 3:12 p.m.
@dingusdingo: I've always thought that that clause would be the best way to go about it. Reprint them as non-legal gold-bordered cards and let individual events and stores decide whether gold-bordered cards are permissible.
DrukenReaps says... #2
If the availability was there I'd be all for it but these will never be reprinted.
November 27, 2019 5:59 p.m.