MASSIVE EDH RC ban list update
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 23, 2024, 12:15 p.m. by greyninja
Dockside Extortionist is banned
Jeweled Lotus is banned
Mana Crypt is banned
Nadu, Winged Wisdom is banned
RiotRunner789 says... #3
Looking at tcg, Jeweled Lotus is already being sold for $60, down from about $90 pre-announcement. This card is going to drop hard, since this is a one format card.
September 23, 2024 12:26 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #4
Honestly a bit surprised it took this long for Dockside. Time to make a few deck edits.
September 23, 2024 12:40 p.m.
I understand why they're banned, but I'm still upset because I don't want my judge promo Mana Crypt
to lose value. It's my most expensive card I own and now I am sad. As I said, I understand why they banned them, but I'm just sad on the value I'll lose.
I also wonder what will happen to the value of cards like Mox Opal, Chrome Mox, and Mana Vault. They might go up in value due to less sources of fast mana being available, or they might fall because now we know the RC is watching fast-mana. I also wonder how cEDH is gonna be affected by this. A lot of cEDH players at my LGS aren't happy at all with this.
September 23, 2024 1:19 p.m.
Crow_Umbra says... #7
Lol Azoth2099, I'm going to have to take a peak into the Vadrok, Apex of Thunder cEDH Discord and see how they're taking it. A bunch of the biggest combo loops for Vadrok involved mutating it onto Dockside, then bouncing it back to hand with something like Snap.
September 23, 2024 1:20 p.m.
UltimateRoxas40 says... #8
AstroAA I'm with you there. My Special Guest Mana Crypt was a prized jewel for my Atraxa deck. Not sure what to do with it now, though I'm definitely not selling it.
I'm still missing a Mana Vault, so I might need to snag one before they spike haha.
September 23, 2024 1:25 p.m.
Crow_Umbra So many deck genetics are bottlenecked around Dockside, this is very healthy for the format imho
September 23, 2024 1:32 p.m.
I'm happy the rules committy is doing something instead of hiding behind rule 0. I'm a little surprised at what and when they decide to do something other then hide behind rule 0. Nadu is a tad broken. The other 3 were fine.
September 23, 2024 2:59 p.m.
I think this is the ban that will impact people's perceived wallets the most. Quite a few people's investments into Mana Crypt's, Jeweled Lotus's and Dockside Extortionist's will be worth a lot less. Honestly I don't think it's a bad thing. I'm pretty sure the only reason The One Ring isn't banned in modern is Wizards being afraid of pissing people who dropped $100 on a card off, even though it leads towards bad experiences. Good on the rules committee for not being afraid.
September 23, 2024 3:26 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #12
I don't think Nadu should have been banned so fast... Things play differently in commander and I don't think we've had time to see how this one plays out. No huge loss there either though, every simic commander does the same 2 or 3 things...
Other bans are all in line with the things I'd like to see getting bans. Fast mana is a problematic effect. Now we just need to get the rest of the fast mana on there and the early game tutors. Oh, and get like almost everything else off in exchange. That'd be a primo ban list. I can dream.
Anyways... good bans imo.
September 23, 2024 4:22 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #13
They could reprint Jeweled Lotus at common so people can put them in their Pauper Commander decks...
Ok, I will see myself out xD
September 23, 2024 4:23 p.m.
SlangNTrees13 says... #14
worst decision ever. lets all try and reverse this with all our might, write your local congressperson today
September 23, 2024 4:30 p.m.
as a filthy casual EDH player playing an honest to goodness power level 7 deck I am not personally effected, but I really feel bad for the spikes that put up the money to play at the "We are all openly playing higher than a power level 7 here" table.
I am in the camp of players that like the slower janky games but i know that isnt everyones cup of tea. I know other people who like to play fast/get a bunch of games in.
September 23, 2024 4:39 p.m.
Mortlocke I saw your other thread and had a couple of questions. I'm casual enough that I don't own or regularly see any of the cards that got banned, so I might be missing something, but how do these bans encourage or force a flat, interaction-less battlecruiser play style? There's still plenty of room for all the same interaction; people just can't slam down Zacama, Primal Calamity on turn 2 or whatever. Fierce Guardianship, Toxic Deluge, Swords to Plowshares, Chaos Warp, all the key interaction cards are still live.
And the ban article did make it clear that Sol Ring in particular isn't going anywhere, so I would say the ending point is right about here, at the 8-mana-on-turn-1 point. Is Jeweled Lotus or Mana Crypt really an essential part of every deck above a certain level, to the point where a deck doesn't work without it?
I completely get the frustration of losing a huge investment (been there myself), and the format will definitely be slower. But how much will the format actually change?
September 23, 2024 4:43 p.m.
I mean, I don't mind these bans too much, but I do think they are kind of strange choices, just because they seem to be aimed at a more competitive meta, but not addressing the problems of competitive decks, just the enablers for those decks. I feel like other cards that don't function in commander as intended might have been better choices.
Thassa's Oracle this seemed like it was designed to be a wincon for control decks that combo out in the end, but it turned into a turn 2-3 possible win out of no where.
Tainted Pact simply does way too much in a 100 card singleton deck
Ad Nauseam is gross in every kinda way : )
Necropotence is busted with 40 life
Rhystic Study is a turtley enchantment that doesn't do much in the format it was printed into
The One Ring was not intended to give you 3 turns of protection after being played
Nadu I am down with, just because it is almost impossible to make a non-combo Nady deck.
Really, I never ran any of the cards that got banned, I just think the mana cards there were more enablers for decks rather than the problem cards that come after being enabled. A dockside without some broken play after is kind of just a powered up deck, and it's easier to have a rule 0 convo about fast mana than it is to have a rule 0 convo about combo win that somebody's deck can't function without.
September 23, 2024 5:22 p.m.
" but how do these bans encourage or force a flat, interaction-less battlecruiser play style?"
Admittedly, i'm salty and i'm probably reading way too much into what the rules committee had to say on their vision for commander, specifically: "The philosophy of Commander prioritizes creativity, and one of the ways we have historically reflected that in the rules and banlist is to encourage a slower pace of game than traditional formats. " So again, I don't think they want us all to have pointlessly slow games where we just don't interact but it's clear they want games to be slower.
My fear is if they get a little too ban happy and they target other staples and high priced collectible cards. What if they start thinking "I don't like how easy it is for players to get mana" and they ban I don't know...Fetchlands or ABUR Dual Lands, or fast mana like Mox Diamond. I just don't like bans and hope they stop here. Enough has been lost ;_;
"8-mana-on-turn-1 point"
8 mana on turn one would be a hand holding a land, Mana Crypt, Jeweled Lotus, Sol Ring and lastly a Mox Diamond with an additional land. Drawing that hand is exponentially rare. Once you get all that down onto the battlefield and cast your commander you are down to one card. While such a start is great, I feel like the 3 other players at the table could probably do something it in 2 to 3 turns while you're on top deck hero status.
But how much will the format actually change?
For the average player who isn't very enfranchised? Not much will change really, just less chase cards to pull from packs - RIP Caverns of Ixilan and Commander Masters. For the more competitive minded players/decks - this targeted ban will slow them down. Not to the stone age or anything, but it will make the more competitive games take longer.
I'm hoping that the bans stop - unless there are some genuinely format warping cards out there that simply need to go. Knowing Wizards they will likely print more broken chase nonsense that too will be banned once everyone gets 2 or 3 copies.
September 23, 2024 5:33 p.m. Edited.
Big fan of the bannings, I wish they would have banned more (the one ring, field of the dead, etc)
Nadu had to go because unlike Thoracle, the Nadu player would "go off" for 45 minutes, digging towards a win condition they don't know yet. It's probably the closest Commander has ever gotten to Eggs.
If Nadu had stayed, I would have been really upset because this reasoning is why Griselbrand is still banished to the shadow realm to this day.
__
The other three cards are all fast mana (with dockside also doing combo-kills I guess). I think these bans won't affect 99% of the playerbase, because nobody owns a mana crypt. As for other fast-mana, I would really prefer it if Sol Ring finally got axed from Commander. The "bad" moxen are fine in my opinion, because they are card disadvantage and mana vault needs a combo to more than a glorified ritual.
Overall, these bannings won't affect your average LGS tables at all (because these cards were to expensive, too infamous or both) but I want more bannings rather than fewer. Big miss in my opinion is only doing bans and no unbans. Sylvan Primordial should come off, it's been 10 years.
September 23, 2024 6:10 p.m.
Mortlocke I appreciate the response. And I get the feeling of key cards being banned, both for deck building and for finances (Extended -> Modern Reanimator Dredge: Golgari Grave-Troll, Dread Return, Deathrite Shaman, Bridge from Below, Hogaak, Arisen Necropolis, Faithless Looting,...), and the turn 1 eight mana was kind of an exaggeration. I don't think there's too much to worry about, though. Unless I'm forgetting something, the last ban was Golos, Tireless Pilgrim more than three years ago, so the RC doesn't seem to be super ban-happy. Sol Ring isn't going anywhere for now, and the other fast mana cards speed the game up by one turn, not three, so I think they're safe too. I might be naively optimistic, but I think the fetch lands and ABUR duals are as much a part of the game as Sol Ring, and again they don't provide 3+ mana. I'm more concerned about Strip Mine and Wasteland, honestly.
September 23, 2024 6:27 p.m.
I honestly think that fast mana, which I consider to be Sol Ring/Mana Crypt/Jeweled Lotus and not cards like Mox Amber or Mox Diamond, should have never been legal in the first place because it usually leads towards un-fun. Either someone goes off early and turns into the archenemy and is annihilated by the rest of the table, or they go off and win before the rest of the table can respond. I think the only reason they have been legal is because no one knew what EDH/Commander would become back when the rules came into being and the rules committee probably struggled to figure out how to deal with those cards having been legal for such a long time.
I'm personally okay with Sol Ring remaining legal if only because with Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus being banned there is no longer the critical mass of fast mana cards to assure that someone at a high-powered game will be going off on turn 1. I don't have a Mana Crypt and I don't play my Jeweled Lotus so my impact from those bans in minimal, but in general I think it will make for better games overall.
Dockside has been a problem since it was printed and everyone knows it. I don't think of it so much as fast mana, though sometimes it functions that way, but more as an easy button that makes the game less interesting most of the time. Most of the time someone plays a Dockside they end up going off and the rest of the table can't recover. That's just too much value out of a two mana card. I do think Dockside being banned will lead to the most decks needing to be completely rebuilt because of how much of a build-around card it was for some combo decks.
Nadu is just one of the worst designs Wizards has ever made. I personally think that the community would mostly self-police it, but this will save some people some grief because Nadu is almost guaranteed to create un-fun situations for the table.
September 23, 2024 6:53 p.m.
My thoughts are to have three tiers...
Tier #1: Competitive, with minimal banned cards
Tier #2: Mid, with what's on there now, and maybe more(?)
Tier #3: Casual, heavier list which would side with their stance they mentioned in this press release, and also to draw in new players etc
Could stop at two tiers; but this concept would help with determining the "power level of your deck" conversation.
September 23, 2024 6:56 p.m.
I just watched a video PleasantKenobi posted maybe a few hours ago covering these bans and he brings up some cogent points as to what this means for magic moving forward. I'll summarize - Mana Crypt has been legal in commander for at least the past 10 years. It has been featured as the chase rare in many products and has been a stable and worthwhile investment for many players. Now, all of a sudden it's just banned. That has alot of real world impact - besides players losing hundreds, stores may have lost thousands in inventory, and WOTC has lost a considerable amount of money in reprint equity. This will shake confidence in future products moving forward, and may encourage players to further embrace proxies as opposed to buying premium product, or disincentivize buying directly on the secondary market.
Obviously this hurts Wizards/Hasbro's bottom line, as well as hurting the player who aspires to get chase rares. The question is - how do things move forward?
September 23, 2024 6:59 p.m. Edited.
I haven't checked out the PleasantKenobi video yet, so I don't know if this gets mentioned. Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus are both banned in Oathbreaker. Mana Crypt is banned in Legacy and restricted in Vintage, and Jeweled Lotus is useless in those formats. No Ban List Commander is possible but should be opt-in, and I don't know what sort of sustainable formats could come up that would include those. So they really are almost valueless in terms of game play. Maybe they get unbanned in Oathbreaker? That could be a pretty good coup for them. I'm armchair analyzing at this point.
September 23, 2024 7:12 p.m.
One more armchair analysis, then I'm going to step back. Watching the PK video, it struck me (almost literally--I had to pause the video and think about this) is that the Reserved List exists to prevent exactly this sort of price collapse. The means of creating a potential price collapse differ (fast mana bans = reduced demand, Reserved List reprint = increased supply), but the hypothetical result is the same: High-value cards lose their value, investors get upset, stores lose inventory value, and the card economy takes a massive hit. Would Juzam Djinn be worth $1,500+ in a world where it's reprinted beside Ravenous Giant? If Black Lotus got reprinted tomorrow with a promise to reprint again, would it still be worth as much as a used car? The Reserved List is an artificial way to protect investments, for better or worse. The fast mana bans show what happens when investments aren't protected.
Is this a false equivalence? As long as the effect is it the same, I don't think it matters too much what the cause is. And the Reserved List is pretty much forever, while bans can be unbanned. (That would really make people go crazy.)
September 23, 2024 7:43 p.m.
Also, and I'm not sure how they would do it, but I think a change to the mulligan system for commander might actually the best way to approach adjusting the power level of the format. Combo lines will always be the most powerful thing in commander because, if you really want to, decks can always mulligan into finding the combo or the tutors for it. Banning fast mana might slow that down, but it doesn't change that there is one completely dominant play pattern in the format.
September 23, 2024 7:48 p.m.
Mortlocke and legendofa, regarding PK's video and the overall point about the financial impact this will have, I think that Magic as a whole is overvalued from a collectable standpoint. The "value" of cards is all about perception in a given moment. Ten years ago or so, Tarmogoyf was a $100 card because of how good it was in modern. The impact of powercreep and a trickle of reprints eventually led to the price cratering to what it is today (around $13). Oko, Thief of Crowns was over $40 for quite a while before it was eventually banned in multiple formats which cut the price by over half. A bunch of people and stores spent a lot of money on those cards and others like them, and almost all the value is gone. It's just the risk we all take as Magic players.
I think that fear of pissing people off who spent big money on cards has prevented bans in the past, and not just in Commander. I am very sure that the $100+ price tag on The One Ring is one of the big reasons it hasn't been banned in Modern. I think that cowardice does the Magic community a disservice in a few ways. Firstly, it makes the games worse for everyone. Secondly, it causes those cards that maybe should be banned to creep up in price even more because they are so good... making it harder and harder to ban them without making people mad. I applaud the rules committee for being brave enough to take that risk because they are going to take a lot of heat over this.
While this does suck for people who have spent a lot on cards that are now plummeting in value, my hope is that this also serves to lower the price of cards in general. Wizards has gotten good at printing cards that cost a lot as singles because of commander. If people don't want to spend as much on cards, maybe that makes all cards more affordable, which will be good for the community as a whole. I do hope that the card shops hold up okay.
September 23, 2024 10:29 p.m.
As someone who had dockside plugged into a too-good-to-ignore ETB effect in ETB Rakdos. I am happy to remove dockside & play something more interesting. The rest I don't care about. I personally hated Jeweled Lotus since I saw it come into being. That being said, I'm not much of a supporter of bans, but I do like when groups take a stance or have a backbone... which seems to be the case here
September 23, 2024 11:16 p.m.
Also... Dealers don't worry about the addicts feelings :)
September 23, 2024 11:25 p.m.
Maybe they get unbanned in Oathbreaker?
Imma toss a hot take here - even with the inclusion of both Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus there will still be no interest in that format.
Is this a false equivalence? As long as the effect is it the same, I don't think it matters too much what the cause is.
Yes. This is very much false equivalence. The reserved list is an official promise from Wizards to the most enfranchised players and stores that the collectables they invested in will maintain their value for as long as the game exists. Mana Crypt and it's banned ilk were never given that protection but were heavily marketed to players as cards to chase after. These cards moved product - but now there is a real possibility that new and exciting cards designed by wizards can just get banned no matter how long they've been marketed and accepted by players - without warning. The introduction of this instability in chase rares now casts a large shadow of uncertainty in our community.
This new found RC philosophy which desires to force players into slower games might continue with the sudden banning additional favorites like Mana Drain, Sylvan Library, or Smothering Tithe. Note: I'm not saying this will happen. I'm just saying that now there is a non-zero chance this could happen.
Players will not stop going after the most efficient cards for their prized decks. They'll just switch to the next best thing - so will the RC decide to just ban that too? When will it end? I do not like this precedent.
September 24, 2024 3:43 a.m. Edited.
The Rules Committee has always had one significant problem - a fundamental failure in their ability to communicate, particularly when it comes to justifying bans. It seems, even with the passing of Sheldon, his communications issues live on.
The Rules Committee has articulated two primary reasons for banning. The first? They interact poorly with the rules specific to Commander, such as cards which lock out certain colors interacting poorly with color restrictions. The second? They lead to non-interactive games, either through format warping levels of power or their ability to enable easy victory if not immediately stoped.
Yesterday’s ban announcements should have been couched in these terms.
Both Crypt and Lotus could easily result in non-interactive games by placing the controller multiple turns ahead in a way similar cards do not (sol ring still eats your land drop for the turn to cast it; other fast mana sources produce a singular mana, etc.). Lotus has the additional problem of interacting poorly with the rules of commander - the equivalent in any other format would basically be “Black Lotus, but also tutor your most important card when you crack it.”
Even played at its most “fair” (a term I use as an in-game colloquialism, not to say other uses are unfair), Dockside provides a huge amount of value for very little cost, making it hard for opponents to catch up. And that is only when played “fairly” - Dockside has such incredible combo potential that it can blow the entire game out of the water. Finally, Dockside creates problems with the fundamental nature of Commander - specifically the multiplayer element resulting in a near-guarantee you will see significant value due to your other opponents’ boardstates.
Nadu rounds out the list as another card producing huge degrees of value for little cost. I do not think this should come as a surprise to anyone - Wizards admitted they did not actually playtest the final version of the card and that, as printed, it was a mistake.
Had the RC expressed the bans in terms of their long-standing core philosophy behind banning, I think there would have been less of an uproar. They have, after all, been telegraphing for years that Lotus, Crypt, and Dockside were cards on the shortlist for bans. Further, Nadu has been discussed as a ban candidate since its release.
Players can generally get behind “more interactive games” as a reason for banning cards - that is a justification couched in terms of giving the players something in exchange for what they are losing. And, outside of folks deeply financially invested in a card, most players are willing to say “interactive games are more fun; I suppose that is worth a ban.”
The RC did not do this. Instead, they couched it not in terms of giving players more fun games, but in terms of slowing down games. Now, did they mean games where people have more time to interact? Sure - that is obvious with a little critical reading in light of long-standing RC statements.
But that is not what they said. They invoked “slow” games - some turn the community generally does not like (heck, there is a tournament rule specifically to prohibit slow games). “Slow,” as used by the community, explicitly invokes feelings of non-interaction, delay, and not particularly fun play. So, while they were trying to say “this should make it more fun and interactive, with games decided based on your skill, not who has the most rocks and other high-value engines in their opening hand,” what they actually said was “we did this to produce the very type of game you hate.”
Not great writing on their part - in fact, actively terrible writing which implied the exact opposite of what they meant. Once again, they have managed to make the entire debate worse, leading to conspiracy theories of a fundamental ban philosophy change which does not seem to really exist… all because they do not know how to talk to their own community.
September 24, 2024 9:51 a.m.
plakjekaas says... #35
I interpreted "Slow" as: "the earliest turn a deck presents a win will be pushed higher up by this change", not: "people will play slower because of the change."
A slow-play warning is a warning where people take too long making decisions, a slow game is the opposite of a fast game, one that's over in way too few turns.
September 24, 2024 11:02 a.m.
Coward_Token says... #36
I don't really care about Nadu
I wish the three others (and Sol Ring!) were never printed. Money aside, there's little reason not to put them in pretty much every deck you can. That's IMO a bigger point against them than the boogieman of fast turns.
Dockside Extortionist was always a broken card. Early on it gives a lot of gas, yes. But mid game you can do a bunch of recursion shenanigans with it, be it cloning or bouncing or flickering or reanimating or probably something else I'm forgetting. And late game you can use one of its nearly four hundred combos to win. And it has a stupid chicken game aspect to it, where one of the best answers to a Dockside is another Dockside (or a clone!), since then you can potentially get double the Treasures or force the original player to sac theirs. And if you're not blue then you probably can't interact with its ETB. And, and, and...
Jeweled Lotus is the weirdest one because IIRC the RC were consulted about it beforehand and gave it the go-ahead.
I feel bad for the people who work at WotC. Since EDH is the most popular format, capitalism pretty much demands that they cater to it. That leaves a decent chunk of their livelihoods at the mercy of the RC, which when you get down to it, is just a small group of customers.
September 24, 2024 3:07 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #37
Coward_Token that is the correct take imho, well put.
September 24, 2024 4:08 p.m.
DoomNoodle says... #38
I just bought a Chrome Mox for my nicol bolas deck and was trying to decide what to remove but I guess my Crypt takes the hit. Out with the Crypt in with the mox! I'll be holding funeral services for my Crypt as it departs!
September 24, 2024 4:23 p.m.
Banning Nadu makes sense. Even banning Dockside makes sense, although I have no problem with it and can understand that Red players are upset because Dockside is a part of numerous combo pieces. But Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus make no sense. Crypt has been around for ages and was just reprinted in the last Ixalan set. It makes no sense to ban it now. Lotus is the one that really feels completely stupid. A card specifically made for Commander gets banned and is now useless. This feels like a small part of something bigger. I mean if Crypt and Lotus get the hammer it makes sense cards like Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox are soon to follow.
September 24, 2024 7:46 p.m.
Last_Laugh says... #40
This honestly feels like a kick in the teeth for enfranchised players (and you know damn well the Rules Committee sold ALL their copies of these cards at full price first). The only one's I saw bitching about these cards were people who can't afford one. Newsflash Rules Committee: those aren't the people who buy almost every Commander precon that comes along and boxes of WotC's product... those are the people with cards like Mana Crypt, Dockside, and Jeweled Lotus that you just alienated.
How about thinking of the long-term sustainability of the game you play instead of thinking only of individual 30 minute games skewed by a lucky opening hand. Shuffle the fuck up and play another... if the game was that lopsided it's over quick.
I for one have already seen too many player's switch to One-Piece because of WotC's bullshit and now we have to deal with an inconsistent Rules Committee driving God knows how many more players away...
September 24, 2024 8:12 p.m.
The fast mana bans are stupid because the banned cards were already rule-0'd out of pretty much any table where they would be considered unfair. The whole reason they gave for the bans (snowballing starts at casual tables) were never an issue to begin with, these cards only see play at PL 8+ groups where fast starts are acceptable. Plus there are TONS of other fast mana cards Mishra's Workshop Mana Vault Culling the Weak Treasonous Ogre Food Chain etc. etc. etc. turbo players will always be able to turbo, all that these bans do are make the worst offenders like K'rrik better at it in comparison to the rest of the playing field, because they took away the card EVERY deck can play. And it's a huge F you to the much more narrow slice of decks that can benefit from the lotus (expensive commanders and mono-color commanders), making commanders that already had dis-incentives toward playing them even less viable. Personally I will be rule 0 cancelling these bans for the high power games that I run and I hope the rules committee will respond to so much negative backlash by putting trust and agency back in the hands of players so they can play the game the way they want to, not the way some clown committee personally thinks it should be.
September 24, 2024 8:33 p.m.
sergiodelrio says... #42
capwner, saber4734, with respect, but if a card wants to go in all of the decks, it should be looked at for banning. Some might consider this to be a hot take, but others have already stated it in the discussion and imho that, in isolation, is a correct attitude. From a collectors standpoint I can see the frustration, and I will also acknowledge that just looking at this isolated "stat" and make a ban decision would be short-sighted.
But think about it... at what point will EDH be in a place where, when you start building a deck, most slots will be autofilled by "cards that go in any deck" (or, related, let's make a deck that can play the biggest amount of OP cards in the most efficient way)? What would that do to format diversity?
Also, to the people saying a lot of tables having rule-0'ed those cards out anyway... As I mentioned before: rule 0 works both ways.
PS: I remember WotC banning Monastery Swiftspear in Pauper for being too "swingy". Maybe that was a consideration too of the people in charge of bannings for EDH, idk.
September 25, 2024 5:34 a.m.
I wonder if we will see any of these getting a reprint in future sets, considering that wotc plans sets so far in advance. I know that they say the RC is completely it's own thing, but with how commander focused magic is, how separate is it? It would be very lame if there was a reprint for J-Lotus that came through, but at the same time, it's pretty convenient that we just had crypt as a top end chase card, and not have that happen like 3 months from now.
I don't know, everything just feels really off on this ban. Looking at prices on tcgplayer, it seems like every card on this list crashed right before the ban announcement, and I don't know, the fact that they started going down around Sept 17th is very shady.
September 25, 2024 7:59 a.m.
Now that it's been a few days I don't think this is as big a deal as before.
The most people hurt by this I think are stores/those who invested in these sealed products and collectors/players who paid top dollar for singles... But This decision was made by a rules committee and not WOTC and I have a hard time picturing how a separate group of people can effect the game from a financial or even quality perspective.... like this is jarring news but I don't know how long lasting it will actually be.
EDH is a casual format with tons of emphasis on rule 0... I am not aware of Grand Prix levels of competitions (I could be not entirely correct here though)... collectors are still going to collect and just as there is a market for selling Magic 30 proxies there is always gonna be a market for people wanting to buy a REAL Jeweled Lotus and company.
September 25, 2024 8:49 a.m.
After thinking on this I'm confident that this ban was not done for "The health of the format" or to "Prioritize creativity" or whatever nonsense the RC said in their official announcement. The whole point of this is to ensure the sale of the next high-powered hyper-pushed cards that will probably be released in the next (i'm going to guess here) 12 months. The rules committee is not an entity entirely upon themselves. It's ridiculous to think that a multi-billion dollar corporation is going to entrust the reigns of it's cash cow to a group of irrelevant individuals. But this decision was probably discussed actively for at least a year before the this announcement.
Despite the vapid attempts of some individuals trying to interpret the "true" intent behind the wording of the RC's poorly written ban philosophy - it doesn't matter. Wizards has likely absorbed all of the value from these cards and is looking to ensure good numbers for their investors in the near future. They will then do so by duping enfranchised idiots like me into buying more overpowered and overpriced cardboard.
September 25, 2024 9:31 a.m. Edited.
While I understand emotions are running high, I want to be very clear on this, and I will only say it once: You can be upset, you can be angry, you but you can NOT be rude to others.
Any additional comments designed to attack others or insult their opinions will be met with a temporary moratorium on your ability to post.
In other places online, this topic has brought out the worst in our community, including threats and doxing attacks against the RC and CAG. Even if folks here on TappedOut have been upset or perhaps a little conspiratorial, few lines have been crossed at this point.
Let’s all work to keep it that way.
September 25, 2024 9:52 a.m. Edited.
There's nothing conspiratorial about a corporation wanting to make more money year over year. These bans were strategic and deliberate to set the ground work for a founding of new chase rares - at the cost of the customer. Mana Crypt and Jeweled Lotus may be the end of it, or a start. As Wizards has a long history of testing the patience of it's customers to find that red line.
However, i'll speak plainly here. Caerwyn, you and I have history. You have a habit of commenting on my posts with criticism - and i'm all for that. But I want to be sure that it doesn't extend beyond that. I just want you to know that I personally don't have anything against you. I just want to be sure that you feel the same. Criticize me. I welcome it, because it challenges my oft overthought and at times narrow perspective. But this is the internet - and usually I tend to assume the worst of others. And i've assumed the worst of you. I apologize for that - if your intentions don't extend beyond honest criticism.
September 25, 2024 11:05 a.m. Edited.
The Rules Committee just added an FAQ around the bannings.
I think they address some of the concerns voiced by some people here, though I will echo Caerwyn's earlier point that they really aren't great at communicating.
September 25, 2024 12:55 p.m.
May I please interject? When you say:
"But think about it... at what point will EDH be in a place where, when you start building a deck, most slots will be autofilled by "cards that go in any deck" (or, related, let's make a deck that can play the biggest amount of OP cards in the most efficient way)? What would that do to format diversity?
I think there is something fundamentally wrong here - you're forgetting the deckbuilder's intent. Decks are not sterile spreadsheets that are always seeking out the absolute best options at all times. They're reflections of the player: How they want to be perceived at the table? What types of decks do they want their deck to match up against?
Not all of the autofill cards that go in any deck are going to be considered the ideal pick if a player has budgetary constraints, or wishes to engage in a less cut-throat meta. Or there's always proxies - but that is also reserved for it's own meta as well. What i'm saying here is - deck building is not a black and white process where one simply picks the best most overpowered cards ever.
September 25, 2024 1:24 p.m. Edited.
RiotRunner789 says... #50
It's nice to see some more feedback from the RC with the FAQ. Though I noticed they danced around answering if WOTC knew mana crypt was going to get banned when they were actively selling the card (in product). "Recently" can mean different time periods to different people.
RiotRunner789 says... #2
Link won't quite load for me yet but whaaat.
Nadu was obvious though it seems to have gotten it a bit quick. Really surprised about mana crypt. Yes it was stupid strong but I see them everywhere.
September 23, 2024 12:23 p.m.