So, About 'Em Wastes
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Feb. 5, 2016, 6:30 p.m. by Phaetion
For reference: Wastes (Did you really need this line?)
I got 9 regular art Wastes, and I have been starting to wonder: All the colorless decks I've seen since OGW ran no more than about a dozen of them. I need 7 more regular arts, because reasons.
But this raises a question: For those of you who run a colorless deck, how many Wastes do you run? Do you run all of them, then some nonbasics? Or do you jam in all the nonbasic utility with a dash of Wastes as a side dish (so to speak)?
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #3
I use none, simply because it feels impure.
colorless felt special. no basics, alternative ramp, every land having its own special purpose.
TBH if you were to remake it now I'd be running about half n half.
lots of utility land, and wastes for all the ramp you can have now.
February 5, 2016 9:54 p.m.
Would 16 be a good number for Wastes? That's the number I'm going for. I mean, I can see 20, but between all the mana rocks, ramp, and nonbasic utility lands, I would be hard-pressed to justify 20 of them.
I should mention that the colorless deck I have is Eldrazi tribal.
February 6, 2016 12:12 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #5
@Phaetion first off, you're going to need to define "tribal". is it based entirely around eldrazi and tribe-enhancing mechanics, or is eldrazi just the dominant creature type?
anyways, why is 20 your version of half? 40 is way too many lands for an edh deck. maybe for omnath or azusa, but not colorless! you got ramp instead of lands!
I'd do about 18. maybe 17. keep lessening the number for each Wayfarer's Bauble, Burnished Hart, or Solemn Simulacrum you don't have in there already.
16 sounds good though.
February 6, 2016 1:01 a.m.
My thing is I have to see which nonbasic I actually want to run. Before when I was running Karn, Silver Golem I used many nonbasic just because I couldn't use any basics.
Now I can look and see which are actually worth running. I will probably run Ugin lands, Urza set, Eldrazi land, and Command Beacon off the top of my head. Strip Mine, Wasteland, Maze of Ith which I run in almost every deck anyway.
Chromatic Lantern is a definite inclusion though so I can activate abilities for anything I steal with It That Betrays.
I've been looking at Extraplanar Lens and I'll probably run it main deck and sideboard it if I face another 
deck. I don't see any colored decks ever running Wastes. It's pointless with the Artifact ramp.
February 6, 2016 1:20 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #7
@iAzire "Chromatic Lantern is a definite inclusion though so I can activate abilities for anything I steal with It That Betrays." are you sure you know how commander mana rules work?
in fact, they were recently changed to make them easier too.
and even if they worked in the "you can't activated lands outside your mana pie colors" way ike it seems you think, they still aren't allowed to tap for colorless with chromatic lantern for the reason where it says "color of mana"
Somewhere, there has been a miscommunication.
February 6, 2016 1:31 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME, I don't think that Chromatic Lantern will allow my lands to tap for colorless. It will allow them to tap for COLORS. It That Betrays allows you to steal permanents from its own Annihilator or another Eldrazi's. The Lantern allows you to produce mana of color within the colorless deck to activate abilities of those stolen permanents.
I think you're getting confused by Chromatic Lantern so here is the ruling:"10/1/2012 Lands you control won't lose any other abilities they had. They also won't gain or lose any land types."
Oh and for Eldrazi Tribal, I want to note just how good Spawnsire of Ulamog is. If you need to drop a couple Eldrazi for some extra Artifacts or anything, Spawnsire can pull up to 10 from your sideboard with his ability. Absolutely fantastic.
Also, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is legal in Duel Commander. She is my backup Commander for 1v1 games. Sol Ring is illegal in Duel Commander so your multiplayer Commander can go in Sol Rings spot. It's absolutely perfect.
February 6, 2016 1:42 a.m. Edited.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #9
Ah, okay, I understand what you were saying now.
and so the misunderstanding is cleared up.
And I assure you, I know how the lantern works. I was just trying to figure out what you wanted to say.
February 6, 2016 1:51 a.m.
It's all good buddy, misunderstandings happen.
I just included the ruling to explain my point as clear as possible to resolve our misunderstanding.
February 6, 2016 1:55 a.m.
i have 8 in mine. Having almost every land be a 'spell' is so sick. I run a fairlamog deck (ulamog 2.0) and its completely fair in my meta as it is and we don't murder lands so the risk to running so many non-basics is moot. The wastes are so good to ramp with as mana rocks do get nuked a lot. It all comes down to meta, and if you prefer ramping lands or using rocks. Rocks is certainly faster, but waaaaay more risky.
February 6, 2016 5:27 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME: 40 has always been my starting point. 38 for decks with Green (I suppose now colorless starts at 38 now with Wastes). And by tribal, I mean most of my creatures are Eldrazi.
Anyway, 16 Wastes it is.
February 6, 2016 8:48 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #13
@Phaetion I've found that 37 is usually best for most decks. 40 will cause land flooding, and since rocks are usually better to have around than lands, drawing into them is better than lands if its going to happen super often.
@maiden77 "fairlamog" you say? whys that? plz help me understand
also, I think that newlamog is a much better term, considering it clearly states which it is.
February 6, 2016 10:47 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME: You were definitely not the first person to suggest that to me. I suppose for the next round of decks I build, I'll tinker with 37 lands as a base as an personal experiment.
February 6, 2016 noon Edited.
I like to keep my entire mana base around 40, including lands and Artifact ramp. Never higher than 44.
February 6, 2016 1:14 p.m.
I did say after it was ulamog 2.0 aka the new one. I call him fairlamog as losing annihilator makes a huge difference. It means that others can still play even tho u slammed ur boss
February 6, 2016 7:01 p.m.
Fair? I have to respectfully disagree. Colorless has significant problems with removal, only a select few cards are available. The defender chooses a small number of permanents to sacrifice, thus sending the cards to the Graveyard. Other decks also have low mana cost cards or even tokens they could sacrifice. They also have many cards to return stuff from the Graveyard.
Newlamog EXILES 20 cards with one swing. That is 1/5 of the starting deck. By the time he swings, it is over 1/5 of the Library. Is that really more fair?
Annihilator is easy to deal with, it gives you time to find counters and removal while giving you the possibility of returning stuff from your Graveyard. Newlamog just removes over 1/5 of your Library from the game entirely. Newlamog is a much larger threat.
Decks that can produce tokens especially just laugh in the face of Annihilator. Nobody likes 20 of their cards being removed from the game in one swing.
February 6, 2016 11:42 p.m. Edited.
You know and I wasn't even factoring the two cards Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger Exiles as soon as he hits the field.
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre destroys on cast which still gives the possibility of returning the cards to the Battlefield or shuffling you Graveyard into your Library with something like Elixir of Immortality.
With effects to bounce Newlamog to your hand and to recast him, or cast him from the Command Zone, you get a good number of targeted Exile effects. Add to that the 20 card Exile when he swings, he is insane.
I would rather face Annihilator any day. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between Destroy and Exile.
February 6, 2016 11:55 p.m.
from experience with the deck the annihilator is worse for most decks, the ones that don't spam tokens (which is most of them). In our wrath heavy and removal heavy creature based meta, there are always threats landing, and then stuff being removed. Meaning annihilator is a real pain and pretty unfun. It also doesn't help when it drops around turn 8, meaning people have little to sacrifice. Having him exile a fifth of the deck is big, but don't forget if you swing with your huge single creature you are open to counter attack. From multiple oponents. Annihilator clears more of the board than his cast exile so it leaves more on the board to kill you. With kozilek as the general the combined force of card draw and annihilator was overwhelming. From experience piloting Ulamog 2.0 he is much more balanced in a multiplayer game. Maybe my meta is unique, but thats the fact for us at least.
February 7, 2016 12:55 p.m.
Deckologist says... #20
In my deck I run 28. Screw being unpure I have an Extraplanar Lens that says I'll ramp as hard as I want haha
February 7, 2016 11:58 p.m.
I run a single Wastes in my Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip deck which I can fetch with a bunch of different ramp spells. It's rare for me to specifically grab it, generally its if I want to spam Endbringer or cast Kozilek, the Great Distortion (newly added) and I don't have many of my other colorless producing lands.
Also cool to note it's a foil Ulamog Wastes. Wish it was Kozilek Wastes tbh tho
Aztraeuz says... #2
I will probably run a good number of Wastes in my colorless deck, just like any other Mono deck. Probably like 20 +/-
I like a good number of Nonbasic in Mono decks to protect against Nonbasic hate.
February 5, 2016 6:55 p.m.