So let's talk Kalitas.
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Dec. 14, 2015, 4:32 p.m. by canterlotguardian
Man, Wizards. Way to go. First Noyan Dar, then Ayli, now Kalitas? All my favorite characters from original ZEN block are getting their own cards (or in Kalitas' case, a new card). I'm like a kid in a Hard Candy store. (Props to those who get the reference.)
But for now, let's focus on this madman/vampire thing right here. I want to start brewing Kal for EDH once he releases. Question is, what direction do I take him? Stax isn't a bad option, as he already has built-in graveyard hate. Just an all-around control deck? Voltron control, seeing as he can pump himself? And what cards in particular work best with New Kal? (Maybe an infinite combo that I'm just not seeing?)
Discuss! :D
-CG who loves you all
mathimus55 says... #3
Obviously zombie tribal will be fun, but some sort of stax/Waste Not discard value deck would be sweet.
December 14, 2015 4:45 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #4
I like Vampire and Zombie just graveyard combo. Use your own deck to do its thing, Zombie Combo is a thing and shenanigans of that sort, not sure if there are any infinite combos. But since you can sac a Zombie or Vampire for his ability, why not go with both of that synergy and there are a lot of Vampires that can benefit from Zombies and vice versa. Sac outlets to be one. I do think this guy is straight nuts though! Because it virtually turns off any recursion from your opponents while building an army. He seems like he is a definite general for EDH though and is well suited as such. He can fit into the reg 99 but I feel he is just a straight house as the general. Lifelink, exiling effects, token generator, pump....he's got a lot going on and he is going to be RIDICULOUS!
December 14, 2015 4:55 p.m.
Permanent creation is a pretty important part of any real stax strategy. I see this being fairly decent as a replacement for Braids.
December 14, 2015 5 p.m.
Yes I can see it now. Make a Zombie good stuff deck and run this as your Commander. I am actually excited for this. Maybe switch Ghoulcaller Gisa into the 99 and put this at the helm. Could make some other changes as well but this could be interesting. Now I can run Zombie Tribal with a Voltron Commander.
I will start looking for great Vampires that could go in the deck and Vampire token generators.
December 14, 2015 5:13 p.m.
Does funny things with Attrition and Grave Pact effects, especially in multiplayer.
December 14, 2015 5:14 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #8
Im brewing with him right now as well and one thing that comes to mind is how much hate he is likely to get once he hits the board.
Nobody is going to just sit by and give you zombie tokens as they take out opponents creatures. He will most likely ALWAYS be the first creature targeted if hes on the board. Not to mention the ONLY target for anyone attempting to play re-animator strategies.
That being said I will be running a decent amount of mana rocks and black ramp spells/creatures to allow me to cast him a few times (i know I'll have to) as well as a heavier than usual protection suite to try and keep Kal around long enough to matter.
Right now I think building a dual tribal deck is fun and something I have never attempted so thats where my head is at. As far as competitive I think you are probably on the right track with stax.
December 14, 2015 5:14 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #9
But I already have two stax decks... Damn it.
December 14, 2015 5:25 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #10
Ok well then that answers part of your question...
Its like when going out to dinner with the wife I ask where she DOESN'T want to eat because we know what we don't want a lot more readily than what we DO want.
So you don't want stax. Do you want this deck to be simply fun or super competitive? That would be my next question to narrowing it down.
December 14, 2015 5:31 p.m.
He literally synergizes with any black spell that causes a sac for death effect (Grave Pact, Butcher of Malakir, Dictate of Erebos, Attrition, Splinter etc.) not to mention anything that causes people to sac a creature on their upkeep (Woebringer Demon, Anowan, the Ruin Sage, Call to the Grave, etc.) he's going to be an extremely powerful commander, if not part of the other 99.
I'm trying him out in a token death deck. So far it's great.
December 14, 2015 7:20 p.m.
Karns_Pyromancer says... #14
I'm actually thinking of putting him in my Cube. It's got a slight Skyrim theme to it, so aesthetically, he fits well. Mechanically, he's a little bit of a stretch, but there's both a zombie deck and a stax deck that's draftable.
December 14, 2015 8:25 p.m.
griffstick says... #16
i love this its right up my ally i cant wait to get one
December 15, 2015 2:43 a.m. Edited.
canterlotguardian says... #17
Karns_Pyromancer/TheDevicer funny story I just started playing Skyrim a week or so ago. I think I'm addicted. Lmao
December 15, 2015 10:44 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #19
...was there supposed to be a gif attached to that? cause there isn't one showing up on my end. :P
December 15, 2015 12:35 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #20
Lifeline would actually do nothing with him on the board right? Nothing goes to the yard there is nothing to bring back.
It probably goes without saying but cards like In Garruk's Wake and Plague Wind with him in play could easily spell game over.
Here is where I am at so far. Leaving some room for more new stuff when its spoiled. I went the dual tribal route with commander damage as a secondary wincon.
December 15, 2015 12:38 p.m.
griffstick says... #21
@LittleBlueHero Kalitas only exiles your opponents creatures not your own. So this is why it's great with Lifeline. Cards some cards that are great don't work with her like Grave Betrayal.
December 15, 2015 12:52 p.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #22
Oh I yeah so if you used effects like Barter in Blood you would get your guys back but they wouldn't... good thinking I was clearly only thinking about their side of the board.
Im iffy on running call to the grave though because it makes ME sacrifice a non-zom creature too and that could very well end up being Kal if I am not running tokens of another type. Anowon however, would work great since you will be getting plenty of zom tokens to sac.
December 15, 2015 1:08 p.m.
griffstick says... #23
You got it man. this really seems to be the way to go with her. Also if creatures are getting exiled then eldrazi processors seem good here too
December 15, 2015 1:13 p.m.
canterlotguardian says... #24
griffstick oh wow I hadn't thought about using the Processors. I'll definitely have to look into that.
December 15, 2015 2:22 p.m.
My mono black zombie deck uses Mikaeus, the Unhallowed as my commander, with Korlash, Heir to Blackblade and Ghoulcaller Gisa as alternatives. The new Kalitas looks like another good option, or even just something to use as part of the other 99.
December 16, 2015 11 p.m.
Blitzdragoon says... #26
there is a video on youtube about 5 budget infinite combos, one of which revolved around a zombie producing combo. I would look into this as a starting point.
December 18, 2015 10:40 a.m.
canterlotguardian says... #27
Blitzdragoon I already have that video in my Watch Later playlist. :D
December 18, 2015 10:42 a.m.
Someone before mentioned doing a dual tribal deck with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet as the commander. What exactly is the viability of that as far as trying to balance out all of the creature-type specific effects and anthems? I have a full on zombie tribal Ghoulcaller Gisa, and having Kalitas be the commander looks great, but just how much could you devote to both types if you start having creature specific effects (and running things like Conspiracy, or just drop that all together?). Thoughts?
December 20, 2015 10:11 a.m.
LittleBlueHero says... #29
I think that was me that mentioned dual Tribal... at least I know I mentioned it somewhere. Its also the route I took with trying to start building him.
Basically it just means a MAJORITY of my creatures fall into the Vampire or Zombie category. I am not using lords and the like to pump for the most part because its a toss up with what creatures I will have in play. They key is to always have something I can sack to Kalitas.
So its tribal in the sense im running only those tribes but not in the sense that I am running it LIKE a tribal deck with lords and buffs and such.
Tribal cards that do make sense: Anowon, the Ruin Sage - I will sack zombies all day long so long as I don't have to sack my general this engine works unlike call to the grave which could make me sack Kalitas. Vampire Nocturnus - may not help my zombies out but he will almost always pump Kalitas helping the commander damage victory. The buff is big enough to warrant a spot unlike something like Captivating Vampire which has a small buff but an otherwise useless second ability to the deck. Endless Ranks of the Dead - There will be very few cases where this will NOT be getting me at least a token or two and we need all the sack fodder we can get, which makes it worth the small risk of missing on occasion. Gravecrawler - same reason the previous will most often work so will this guy.
Focusing on either of the tribes by themselves forces you to run cards that might be worse than something from the other tribe. Zombie overrun is still 3rd on my wincon list but its completely viable if the right cards get going you know? But basically its vamp tribal with zombie support. Let me know what you think maybe I am way off base here lol.
griffstick says... #2
I love this.
December 14, 2015 4:42 p.m.