Sword of Body and Mind in Commander
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 11, 2020, 4:22 p.m. by Player3.14
I've played a lot of 60-card constructed magic but have little background in commander.
I am developing a mono-white commander deck and have been pleased about how it plays. I am considering adding a Sword of Body and Mind.
What gives me pause with this particular sword is the "mill 10" part of the damage trigger. For each of the other Swords, the abilities are largely beneficial (except, I guess, in rare instances, Sword of Feast and Famine's discard trigger could theoretically set up some reanimation shenanigans). Yet the mill portion of the damage trigger seems to be a distinct disadvantage because many better decks utilize the graveyard as a resource and milling out a 99 card deck is unlikely.
Some commanders especially focus on using the graveyard as a resource, such as Muldrotha, the Gravetide, Karador, Ghost Chieftan, and Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. I imagine "mill 10" is quite a gift to these players.
For those of you who run Sword of Body and Mind in a higher-tier casual (i.e. non-cEDH) deck, how much has this been an issue for you?
(In particular, I'm targeting levels 6-7 using Wizard Tower's 10 point scale, but insight for lower or higher levels of play is also welcomed).
Thanks!
I would argue that if graveyard decks are already a problem for you, you should consider running things like Ashes of the Abhorrent, Rest in Peace, or Grafdigger's Cage since those all fit into mono white.
Yes giving extra grave resources to those decks is a big drawback, but if they're already a part of your meta it's good to proactively slot cards that can handle them.
August 11, 2020 4:38 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #4
It's not really worth it. You can either restructure your deck to include significant graveyard hate, or run something else.
August 11, 2020 4:42 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #5
Oh yeah, I used to have a Sword of Feast and Famine, and the discard wasn't really a problem (granted, this wasn't in commander). I traded it away a while ago, though.
The "Untap all lands you control" with two extremely relevant protections is very good.
I think Sword of Feast and Famine and Sword of Fire and Ice are the two best.
I know that this is the case, but I feel reluctant to shell out nearly $50 for each of these, as I currently own neither. The deck is good at tutoring out equipment.
In testing, I have been running
Sword of Fire and Ice
Sword of Feast and Famine
Sword of Light and Shadow
In testing, these all have good abilities, but something I've found to be almost as or more important is the protections, especially as I can easily fetch out a sword with protection from any relevant color.
Unfortunately, if I cannot use Feast and Famine, the only other sword with green protection is Body and Mind.
It's just that getting burned by the "mill 10" has been worrying me.
August 11, 2020 4:45 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #6
If you want the protection, use Giver of Runes and Mother of Runes, and if you want the tokens, try Hero of Bladehold or Brimaz, King of Oreskos.
August 11, 2020 4:46 p.m.
King_marchesa says... #7
I never thought of the milling to be a problem but at the worst you just attack another player. Also, the milling part can get very relevant if it gets to the late game.
August 11, 2020 4:54 p.m.
EleshNornsFs The reasons you run swords for protection is you are either running a deck build using equipment; the coolness of swords, voltron strategy.
A lot of voltron strategies are mono colored red or green and quite a few do not have white at all in the color wheel so the above listed want help.
A lot of them are creatures and in casual meta's are more frangible because most people run board wipes and creature removal as the most common interaction.
The advantage of the Swords over the creatures listed is the swords have other abilities tacked on that are relevant to the strategy of decks and pump up your creature for more damage
August 11, 2020 5:29 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #9
Pros: 2/2 wolf that can be a blocker, also any top deck manipulation is punished, also could possibly spoil Approach of the Second Sun Cons: bad vs graveyard decks 2/2 body isn't terribly relevant, and to mill an opponent you'll likely have to hit them 8 times, which just isn't going to happen.
August 11, 2020 5:53 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #10
hejtmane I'll be honest with you, I forget voltron exists from time to time. It's not really an area I've explored before, so I forget. Woops.
August 11, 2020 10:59 p.m.
EleshNornsFs no big deal but that is why the swords are highly used mainly just the 5 I listed the added bonuses on what they do and the protection. The others are pretty ho hum they are still ok but it is more oh I got it and it's better than this equipment so throw it in there
August 11, 2020 11:05 p.m.
Monomanamaniac says... #12
Personally I like Balan, Wandering Knight because she can rebuild really quick and cheats on equip costs. I Personally love voltron strategy because your opponents know they're going to die and trying to stop you makes them a target
August 12, 2020 2:52 a.m.
I’m just gonna come out and say it:
You’re in mono white. You need draw engines, card advantage, any way to get ahead. The last thing you need is more creatures on the board to encourage frequent wrath effects.
Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Feast and Famine, and Umezawa's Jitte are the only “does something in combat” equipments you should be running, and they’re definitely worth the cost. Sword of Body and Mind is ok in 60 card Singleton, but it does way too little in EDH to be worth running. Blue and green as a color combo are so laughably lite on removal that the protections aren’t going to do much for you. I’d consider Sword of Sinew and Steel as a better “budget” sword if you really want to avoid the price tag on fire and ice.
August 12, 2020 11:44 a.m.
SteelSentry says... #14
The only time I have seen this sword work is in Anafenza, the Foremost token decks, since her static can nullify the issue with milling 10, because for the most part that is an upside to whoever you are targeting due to how accessible graveyard interaction is in every color now.
August 12, 2020 1:10 p.m.
A sword that gives +2/+2 for a cast cost of 3 and equip for 2 isn't great if you are looking for stats. And a 2/2 token isn't worth much either. So if the mill part of the sword doesn't synergize with your deck, there are definitely better equipment out there.
If you let us know what your deck intends to do (or better yet link your deck list) we can probably point you toward some better equipment that isn't currently in your list.
August 12, 2020 6:39 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #16
If you have enough double strike enablers, mill 10 suddenly becomes mill 20, then suddenly milling out is not that far away.
True Conviction, Fireshrieker, Duelist's Heritage are all cards that are more than decent to run in mono white anyway, combining them with combat damage triggers for double value is a cool strategy. Other swords are probably still better to run, but you can defend any "whenever this/equipped creature deals combat damage to a player" inclusion in your deck this way. Green and blue are very relevant protection colors to go unblockable at at least one player on the table, even though they don't protect from much removal (although Beast Within and Rapid Hybridization are very prevalent in most decks that can run them)
There's a possibility for a very cool, albeit suboptimal, deck to include Body & Mind.
And yeah, run graveyard hate, even if you decide not to run the sword.
August 13, 2020 9:33 a.m.
Player3.14 says... #17
EleshNornsFs - The protections are the big thing, though the creature is nice in case I run into sac effects like Plaguecrafter. I actually do have both Giver of Runes and Mother of Runes and I can fetch them up with Ranger-Captain of Eos or the more flexible Recruiter of the Guard. (With only three CMC1 creatures, I'm not sure how much I'd like Ranger of Eos; I'm not sure it does enough for 4 mana). Thank you for the suggestion!
DuTogira - wow, I completely forgot about Umezawa's Jitte. I was a modern player (I only play casually now) so I've always thought of that card as "off limits." But that's a great suggestion! And the price isn't so bad either; it's cheaper than most of the Mirran Swords.
My commander is Avacyn, Angel of Hope, and so I do think the protection from blue is relevant as most creature theft spells are in blue, and having her stolen would be disastrous, though I have some exile removal and Homeward Path. Do you think creature theft would be relevant here? Is this the best way to go about stopping it?
I also like how the protections make her unblockable against the appropriate colors, as with such a large commander, commander damage is a very viable wincon, and it helps get Worldslayer through, too.
Peligrad - Sure! I was mostly focused on the "mill 10" portion of the sword as part of a general discussion, but ultimately, I do want to improve the deck and it seems that the strength of Sword of Body and Mind is much more context-dependent anyway, especially compared to the other swords. Thank you for the offer!
The deck is here:
Heavenly Annihilation Budget
Commander / EDH
1 VIEW | IN 1 FOLDER
Previously, this build was listed as "private" up until today as I ironed things out, so please excuse the hastily written description.
August 13, 2020 1:06 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #18
So, now that this thread is off the main page, I guess the consensus is:
On the "mill 10" clause:
- The "mill 10" clause can be a bit of a drawback because graveyard recursion is prevalent, though this drawback can be somewhat mitigated by attacking the player with the fewest graveyard recursion effects or at least a player who's commander is not graveyard-based.
- It is prudent to run graveyard hate along with Sword of Body and Mind, perhaps in higher quantities than usual.
On Sword of Body and Mind in general:
- In general, it is the weakest of the Mirran Swords printed to date.
- It may be worth running if it's the next best equipment in a voltron deck that needs more equipment, but likely not for it's strength alone.
- It is best for specific strategies or certain commanders that can take advantage of its ability (like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind or Wrexial, the Risen Deep) or at least consistently mitigate the drawback, like Anafenza, the Foremost.
August 13, 2020 2:39 p.m.
Cool deck dude!
So some equipment that would rather have instead of body and mind in a mono-white deck that are under the $40 price tag:
Blackblade Reforged Champion's Helm Fireshrieker Inquisitor's Flail Strata Scythe and although not technically an equipment the Avenging Huntbonder is a sick card that I wish i had a home for.
August 13, 2020 2:40 p.m.
I also noticed that you aren't running Gauntlet of Power.
August 13, 2020 2:47 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #21
I really should be running Gauntlet of Power. I also forgot that card existed.
I also really like Champion's Helm.
Blackblade Reforged, Fireshrieker, Inquisitor's Flail, and Strata Scythe all just make the equipped creature a big beater and don't offer any forms of card advantage. But I suppose if I can finish my opponents off with commander damage, then that's what matters.
Avenging Huntbonder is interesting, too! As you say, it's not an equipment, but it does wield my other swords well and double strike on an 8/8 is nasty.
It looks like I've got some stuff to try.
Thanks for the recommendations!
August 13, 2020 3 p.m.
Explorer's Scope has a completely different role in the deck than the sword, but with an 8 cost commander that your strategy revolves around, it might come in clutch
August 13, 2020 3:04 p.m.
I think it’s definitely something worth playing with for testing out, especially if you have or can get double strike on your commander. Since Mill 20 would probably limit the benefit any graveyard based deck can get since your taking a while 1/5th of their library and won’t be guaranteed to get into their cards that let them benefit from their grave besides for their commander.
August 14, 2020 10:09 a.m.
Player3.14
Sword of Truth and Justice and Sword of War and Peace are arguably still worse than Sword of Body and Mind, though it’s close because pro-white is really strong. Their effects are negligible, although truth and justice might be ok in a counters matter deck.
If your big thing is getting pro-blue... body and mind will do it. But at that point I’d run Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves. Sword of Body and Mind becomes redundant, especially when your commander is already indestructible. Also green creatures rarely fly so the “pro green for unblockable” aspect isn’t really gonna matter either.
If your biggest argument for Sword of Body and Mind is “it protects from targeted bounce/theft”, there’s better equipments that cost less money and less mana which you should be running and fetching before that sword.
August 14, 2020 12:53 p.m.
Player3.14 says... #26
DuTogira - I actually do already have Swiftfoot Boots and Lightning Greaves in the deck; they're awesome. Cheap and efficient protection. Yet consistency is redundancy, so in addition to Mother of Runes and Giver of Runes, I thought having the swords in there too would make it even more likely that Avacyn isn't bounced/exiled/stolen/etc. The nice thing about the Mirran swords is that they grant a bit of a boost as well as some removal protection and unblockability (though admittedly, as you mention, green removal is almost nonexistent, green flying is pretty rare and green reach is fairly uncommon in practice, so the pro-green for Avacyn doesn't mean as much).
However, given that the cheap protection boots are already in the deck, I was thinking of following Peligrad's advice and using Champion's Helm instead for more comprehensive protection, or maybe just abandoning maintaining that slot as an equipment and adding a creature in there instead. I liked the prospect of having cheap wolves that become indestructible blockers or sac fodder to Plaguecrafter and friends, but that's a pretty small benefit.
Thanks for the advice!
hejtmane says... #2
Feast and Famine you are not worried about the discard it is about the color protection and untapping lands. I have it in a deck were I am running swords and it is pretty darn ho hum
August 11, 2020 4:34 p.m.