This new card is broken in edh will it get the ban hammer
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on June 30, 2016, 5:03 p.m. by griffstick
http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/tree-of-perdition/
That's the link to the new spoiled card in the next set Eldrich Moon and it's busted in edh.
My question is? as salty as this card will make people feel to have their life put to 13 at a 4 mana cost creature will this get the ban hammer or am I overreacting
MasterofMirrodin says... #3
In addition, the tree doesn't have haste, so it is vulnerable to removal until your next turn.
June 30, 2016 5:12 p.m.
UpperDeckerTaco says... #4
Sorin Markov or Magister Sphinx aren't banned and they do a better job than the new Tree.
June 30, 2016 5:18 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #5
there's nothing wrong with this.
I mean, considering that (the ones mentioned) aren't banned, and hell, not even Mana Crypt is banned, or Palinchron, etc, even though they're all dumbly broken
fuck man, Bazaar of Baghdad isn't banned!
June 30, 2016 5:23 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #6
but i do wanna mention:
that tree, activate on guy with 40 life, sac to Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
June 30, 2016 5:24 p.m.
jandrobard says... #7
DERPLINGSUPREME That almost works. Jarad damages based on the sacced creature's power though.
June 30, 2016 5:29 p.m.
griffstick says... #8
But the difference with the other two mentioned similar cards is the mana cost. With a sol ring you can do turn one Swamp, Sol Ring, then Lightning Greaves, then on turn two play the tree, equip it with the Greaves and put someones life to 13 before he or she has even played his or hers second land
June 30, 2016 5:37 p.m. Edited.
I think mana cost is an issue to talk about. There is a large difference between 4 and 6.
On the other hand summoning sickness on the tree is a thing to consider as well.
June 30, 2016 5:59 p.m.
griffstick that's cute, but I think we're forgetting that there are t1 wins in competitive multi-player edh.
June 30, 2016 6:28 p.m.
griffstick says... #11
The difference is between competitive ando non competitive is almost every non competitive deck will run a sol ring and lightning Greaves
June 30, 2016 6:31 p.m.
I didn't think anyone was talking about competitive EDH? As soon as a turn 4 play that doesnt win the game is mentioned all ideas about competitive play should go out the window. That is abundantly clear.
Besides, the banlist has nothing to do with competitive EDH anyway. It's been confirmed by Sheldon and the RC that they'd rather preserve "fun" over "competitive" balance.
June 30, 2016 6:35 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #13
Overreacting just a tad griffstick
And DERPLINGSUPREME, using Tree of Perdition (or Sorin and/or Magister) to decrease your opponents life just to sac a 10+/12+ powered Wall of Blood to Jarads ability
June 30, 2016 6:55 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #14
both of those only do 1 opponent though, so it isn't an auto win
and forgot to mention with jarad, just give it +1/+1 and swamp its p/t (i cant think of cards right now)
June 30, 2016 7:23 p.m. Edited.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #15
you're totally right, it should be banned over a 1/10000 chance of happening on turn 2.
June 30, 2016 7:25 p.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #16
There's also the mention that Tree of Perdition is repeatable every turn, but yeah. I don't think it's gonna get banned.
June 30, 2016 7:53 p.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #18
If you're suggesting Phenax with Tree, then... I'd rather just set their life total to 13. Or less. I'll never forget the feeling of being in a top-deck match against a Nath deck where I had Grave Betrayal, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, and plenty of life to spare against his veritable army and Rhys the Exiled. He could have won if he'd played smarter, but Howling Mine netted me the perfect draw of Sorin Markov and Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Thank you Crypt Ghast. Side note, Devotion=12 after those two.
June 30, 2016 8:13 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #19
but you get to mill them for 40 every turn after turn 5! ITS GREAT.
June 30, 2016 8:21 p.m.
MasterofMirrodin says... #20
I agree, this is excellent in Phenax EDH. One hit with the tree, then a tap with a Consuming Aberration will win in most situations (once you've swapped the tree's toughness).
June 30, 2016 8:30 p.m.
iBleedPunk says... #21
MasterofMirrodin DERPLINGSUPREME how does the Tree help mill like that? I am intrigued
June 30, 2016 8:36 p.m.
MasterofMirrodin says... #22
You can switch its toughness with the highest opponent's life total, and unless you get the tree late game or an opponent is playing a stax-like deck, you are most likely to switch it with a player with 40 life. From there, with Phenax, God of Deception, you can mill an opponent for forty cards, so you basically get to Traumatize an opponent.
June 30, 2016 9:30 p.m.
Clearly the play with Tree of Perdition is to play it in Esper and run Godhead of Awe. But I think it's fine. And yes, while getting it with Sol Ring may be broken, the problem with that argument is not about the Tree, but the Sol Ring.
June 30, 2016 9:56 p.m. Edited.
JUSTHISBRANCH says... #24
This is a perfect way to set up my Blasphemous Act through the Stuffy Doll :)
June 30, 2016 10:01 p.m.
DarthKaan12 says... #25
The obvious play to me is Tree of Perdition plus Triskaidekaphobia, easy win!
July 1, 2016 12:54 a.m.
Nobody seems to be taking lifegain decks into account xD. Targeting an Oloro seems a lot better than somebody on a miserable 40 life. Phenax would be proud.
As a side note, I don't think the tree is broken because even though you can repeat the effect, the max damage you can deal (without setting up a 2 or 3 card combo, at which point you deserve to be able to) is the highest life total - 13 damage.
July 1, 2016 3:37 a.m.
People keep mentioning that it's repeatable, but the tree doesn't say till end of turn. So, even a turn two tree with greaves, the first time you do it you'll take someone from 40 life to 13 life. but, the tree now has a toughness of 40 so exchanging it with someone's life total on your next turn will most likely have minimal (if any) effect and only gets worse as the game goes longer and your opponents life totals start to drop but the tree's toughness remains at 40
When you take this into account, Sorin Markov and Magister Sphinx are actually much better options (for this type of effect) and are way more repeatable than the tree. Sorin Markov obviously can be ticked back up to use his second ability again and Magister Sphinx is in perfect colors for all kinds of blink and recursion effects making it very easy to get multiple triggers from it's ETB ability.
July 1, 2016 5 a.m.
It's very good- especially if you have a way to makes it a 0/1. But broken? Not really.
July 1, 2016 4:35 p.m.
It would be a good play but life is so unimportant in Commander. At least in Competitive, the rare occurrence of a T2 Tree doesn't really warrant a ban. It should be fun in Casual though.
I really don't see it having an effect on Competitive EDH, but considering they ban based on casual players, it may get banned. How the others mentioned haven't been banned I don't know. This is the same group that banned Prophet of Kruphix (HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Noobs can't play against it for some reason).
July 1, 2016 5:31 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #30
@iAzire I cant deal with prophet either. or Seedborn Muse. I play fairly competitively, but if no one is able to remove it almost immediately it puts the controller 2 or 3 turns ahead. its really dumb.
July 1, 2016 6:07 p.m.
MirranTitan says... #31
Nice tree, it'd be a shame if it... slipped on a banana peel. (Tragic Slip)
July 6, 2016 12:58 a.m.
There are a good amount of cards to make your Tree of Perdition lose defender after Doran, the Siege Tower turns it into a monstrous 40/40. Or maybe use it a Sapling of Colfenor EDH deck with Assault Formation and tutors to get the cards you would need.
July 7, 2016 7:13 p.m.
I think it's kinda meh... unless my opponent gets a T3 Fervor or a T2 Generator Servant I don't care about this card at all.
Also I can't afford Mana Drain but if I could then I for sure would not care about this card.
It can absolutely take people by surprise in a 4 player game and will result in many people's feelings being hurt but those people will just move onto warhammer or something.
July 12, 2016 7:29 a.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #36
@kengiczar really?
you think people's feelings will be hurt hurt so bad that they'll quit mtg entirely and simply switch to warhammer?
July 13, 2016 11:40 a.m.
I'm not sure why you would think people wouldn't. I've seen it multiple times.
Cards that have been known to make people quit playing EDH:
Aura Shards
Sorin Markov
Helm of Obedience
+
Leyline of the Void
Felidar Sovereign
Obliterate
Armageddon
Iona, Shield of Emeria
Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite + Kormus Bell
Winter Orb > Static Orb
People quit playing EDH all the time just like people start EDH all the time. It is not an unreasonable thing to presume that some people would quit because they do not enjoy the product. This happens in every market. MTG is not special in that regard.
July 13, 2016 11:59 a.m.
It's not hard to believe that people will stop playing EDH (it happens all the time for various reasons). What is hard to believe, is your statement about people getting so butt hurt over the tree in multiplayer games that they quit playing magic all together.
First off, the tree isn't even a game ending ability as it requires lots of work to get multiple (beneficial) uses from it and while going from 40 to 13 life sucks it doesn't mean you lose the game. Use it on an opponent at 40 life and it now has a 40 toughness, making it's ability almost completely irrelevant. Secondly, seasoned players aren't going to have the tree activated against them and get so butt hurt they flip the table. It's not a new effect so it's something every seasoned EDH player has seen before, it would be mind-boggling if they quit over Tree of Perdition (especially when Sorin Markov and Magister Sphinx didn't make them quit and those are more repeatable). Just like the guy who originally made this post, your over estimating the usefulness of this ability in a format where combos win games. Especially when it's an effect that you most likely get one use out of and it doesn't win you the game.
July 13, 2016 2:37 p.m.
Named_Tawyny says... #39
I don't see why people are saying that this is a one use thing in EDH. Or rather, I do see why - because they're forgetting that EDH is all about politics.
T5, you bring somebody down to 13. You now have a 0/40 blocker. A few turns later, somebody is down to the dregs of their life - well hey, you can bring them back up to 40 if you want - what are they going to do for you?
Turn after, you can drop somebody low again. Turn after that, politics.
It's a great card... and not even remotely bannable.
MasterofMirrodin says... #2
Sorin Markov and Magister Sphinx aren't banned, so I don't believe this will be banned. It is going to see a lot of play, though.
June 30, 2016 5:10 p.m.