What personal values do you uphold in commander?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Feb. 12, 2020, 12:55 p.m. by Deadpoo111
Since commander is such a social format, with so much built upon the relationship and interactions between players, I'd love to hear some values that players uphold, personal beliefs, philosophies, etc...
As an example, I'll do some that I uphold:
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The game should allow all players to have fun and play their deck
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New players should be forgiven for mistakes
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If a player makes a mistake, forgive and forget is the best policy
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Randomly attacking players based on die roll is a fair way of dealing damage
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Sol Ring is not an excuse to kill a player
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Clear communication makes for better games
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People who abuse players shouldn't get to play
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Decks need to run more land destruction spells
Also, as a note, please don't attack other people's lists, the last thing we want is an argument or fight here, thanks!
I am alright with mild staxs I run some my self War's Toll is great not preventing you from playing but making you make hard decisions. I think this is the type of staxs that is cool.
"Sol Ring is not an excuse to kill a player" I never understood this when I have watched a green player play something like Exploration turn one and that is more broken than a sol ring on turn one in most metas
I try to keep my decks to match meta power level last thing I want to be is a pubstomper and if I accidentally make it to strong I will pull cards and rebuild
February 12, 2020 2:45 p.m.
jordanalessi says... #4
i try not to play things that i wouldn't want to play against.
February 12, 2020 3:17 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #5
Asking for people not to fight is just asking for people to fight :P
I think I'm pretty much a copy of your list.
I'd add that I allow people to do things they forgot to do no matter how experienced they are. As long as the game state hasn't drastically changed and it has only been a few phases. Like 2 or 3. Much after that I would rather the player just go with how things are. And that goes for if the thing is to their benefit or detriment. I try to hold myself to a higher standard though.
February 12, 2020 3:49 p.m.
LordBlackblade says... #6
I’m actually against the idea of using dice to decide who to attack (barring at random effects of course). In my opinion it’s a form of deflection. You are responsible for your actions in the game, and I firmly believe every action you take should have purpose. Just my opinion though.
As for what I uphold:
Have fun!
Make yourself a better player every game e.g. learn from your mistakes.
I’m lukewarm towards proxies at best. This is part of the strategy for me because part of the strategy is working within your own budget.
Always strive to better your deck! Half the game, in my opinion, is deck building/tweaking, so always be thinking about what you can improve!
There’s probably more but this is what I came up with off the cuff.
February 12, 2020 4:31 p.m.
LordBlackblade: I am entirely there with you on using dice rolls. Players should make a decision and stand by it, or not make that decision. Too many people do this and it just promote bad decision making and poeple avoiding responsibility for their actions.
I think my main ones are:
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Remember your version of fun may not be the same as other's so be gracious when people play decks you don't like.
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Unless you're brand new, no take-backs. Instead, learn from your mistakes.
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Communication an social skills are important and having a lack of them puts the onus on you to learn.
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A quick game is a good game.
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Ultimately the most important one (and applicable not just in MtG): Don't be a dick.
February 12, 2020 9:02 p.m.
IMO...
- Play with panache, there is a whole new level of joy found in the challenge of winning with the unconventional tactics & pet cards.
- In a multiplayer format, other players are a resource. Use the resource, try some decks that scale well with more players in the game.
- Life is a resource & a tool that alters other player's moves as much as boardstate. This is my reason for not liking dice-roll-determined attacks. As a player who feels great enjoyment from punisher decks & clocking the game with life-loss every bit of dmg serves a purpose, send it the right way & make sure some control players have to make uncomfortable decisions - this also helps make sure games always go differently.
- Limited take-backs are fine as long as they are within phase & logical misses & do not follow an in-response type of situation.
- It is just Wizard Poker for some people, my playgroup is made up of a variety of hobbyists, people that are there for "The Gathering" part as much as "Magic" :) .. Busy people without a ton of sleep playing a complex strategy game for fun. These are not people that are there to "learn themselves a lesson" -- This relates to the allowance of limited mistakes
- If a trigger or order faux pas is acceptable, It is good to point out options to a player even if it does not benefit me. It is often easier for another player to point this out when they are not staring at their hand & boardstate...2-fold, I appreciate when this service is returned to me & I enjoy playing my competition at their peak functionality
February 12, 2020 11:36 p.m.
Steelspike says... #9
1) I firmly adhere to the "live and let live" philosophy. Translated as let people play their decks. I refuse to run a Cyclonic Rift because it destroys gameplay. I also hate Gonti, Lord of Luxury and that kind of "Imma play YOUR deck" style.
2) If people aren't having fun, it's not a commander game. Period. I build decks with wacky interactions because I like to see folks' reactions.
3) Counterspells need to be limited to verified threats, not for a minor combo piece like a Chromatic Lantern or Cryptolith Rite.
4) Infinite combos need to win. The. Game. Not durdle until everyone ragequits.
5) Turn 3 "kill the table" combos need to die. Ok. Great. You win. Now you gotta sit there until the rest of us finish OUR game. If you complain, your deck will be banned from whatever game I'm playing and I'll intentionally slowplay just to piss you off.
6) Non-interactive decks need to die as well. If you don't want to play commander with other people, just stay home and goldfish.
February 13, 2020 12:39 a.m.
Steelspike: With a turn 3 win, you don't just all shuffle up and start again?
February 13, 2020 1:09 a.m.
DrukenReaps says... #11
I feel I need to add one to my earlier statement and it is very important and clearly not used by anywhere close to the number of people that claim they do. I know this because I've read far too many complaints about games and players across the internet.
I have a discussion with people I have not played against before playing with them to set expectations or if I don't have this conversation I accept the fact I might get ROFLstomped or I might ROFLstomp them.
February 13, 2020 1:48 a.m.
Steelspike I'm not a fan of combos either. Always feel like an empty win & I believe in playing for high impact with all my cards - instead of incremental flavorless cards, but at least with a turn 3 win it is quick. If a deck is built to achieve this through 80% of the deck though, then... Frig-off Ricky! :)
Another couple of philosophies that increase my enjoyment: 1. MTG is still a gambling game... Use some cards that are a gamble in decks that don't pan out the same way every time 2. Tutors are not inherently boring or evil, its all about the search targets in your deck, include more pet-cards & less combos then you find yourself tutoring for unusual and different targets all the time. 3. Repetition gets stale for everyone, try decks that don't always rely on this 4. Play some decks that don't require major synergy & setup, you find yourself less miffed by disruption. 5. Stop asking opponents "Why would you do that?" because you don't like a move, there's always a reason but the opponent doesn't need to make a dissertation.
February 13, 2020 8:55 a.m.
triproberts12 says... #13
Don't just blatantly lie to the table. "I won't attack you next turn. [attacks next turn] What? It was an opportunity to kill you, so I took it."
I understand if you wanna proxy a Tawnos's Coffin or something, because you want the deck ready to play before you can afford some integral piece, but stop proxying absurd cards that would be in every deck if they weren't multiple Benjamins. There's nothing clever about incorporating ABU Duals and Mana Crypt into every manabase. Again, if you need a second Sacred Foundry to enable some weird combo, cool, but "so I have perfect mana with my Farseek, Nature's Lore, and proxied Three Visits" is not cool.
Be welcoming of letting others into your playgroup. I move a lot, and it's a hell of a lot easier when someone comes in and you actually make an effort to let them know when a new game is starting, or chat them up while they get a read on what kind of decks and playstyles are going on around them.
February 13, 2020 9:09 a.m.
Steelspike says... #14
enpc No. That's your punishment. Commander is supposed to be about interacting with other players and having fun. I don't play Legacy or Modern for a REASON.
Gleeock I have some "I win" combos in my decks because eventually, games have to end. My rule is I'll (almost) never tutor for them. If, say, I have Grenzo, Dungeon Warden out, and I draw Timestream Navigator, Imma take all the turns. Or, if I have 4 experience counters with Ezuri, Claw of Progress and draw Sage of Hours, again, Imma take all the turns.
February 13, 2020 2:35 p.m.
DrukenReaps says... #15
Steelspike that is a very toxic way to deal with something that you can completely avoid by having a turn 0 discussion.
February 13, 2020 3:30 p.m.
@Steelspike: the funny thing is, your reaction to a turn three win directly goes against your rule #2. I'm with DrukenReaps here, talk this out before the start of the game and save everyone the headache.
February 13, 2020 10:59 p.m.
Steelspike says... #17
"toxic"? We don't play cEDH for exactly that reason. cEDH players, in my view are the toxic ones who can't handle losing to tier 3 or 4 decks, so they build OP to win without ever interacting with other people. GTFO with that. Toxic...
"Talk it out"? We have talked it out. Extensively. With everyone that regularly plays at my LGS, and yet, still dumbasses make these degenerate decks. "Why are you targeting me!?!?!" Um, because you build bullshit decks and play them against folks that just want to have fun.
February 14, 2020 2:45 a.m.
DrukenReaps says... #18
Steelspike your original comment did not mention setting expectations at all. Proper cEDH play is done in a pod of decks that are all on a similar level. Otherwise there is no point. Since you have already set the expectation you are correct in your response.
I wouldn't just carry that idea over to all players that play high power decks like your post indicates though. Every competitive player I've met will only play their high power decks against other high power decks. Against me they pull out their casual deck and suddenly they are a casual player. Like most of us. I'm sorry you have to deal with people that don't understand or refuse to do that.
February 14, 2020 12:38 p.m.
Steelspike: sorry, but retaliating the way you do is still toxic, even if you feel you've been wronged. The best solution is to talk with the person again or stop playing with them, as opposed to intentionally ruining their game.
Also, I feel like your opinion on an entire group of players based on a small sample of experiences is toxic. In fact, top to bottom your assessment of the group is wrong - cEDH decks are extremely interactive due to the consistency of the format. Just because they don't fall under your preferred method of interaction doesn't mean they aren't interactive.
February 14, 2020 1:21 p.m.
Steelspike says... #20
Nemesis First 20 minutes is Shivam talking like me
I'm toxic tho...
February 14, 2020 11:34 p.m.
Steelspike says... #21
DrukenReaps You don't know my playgroup.
I play to have fun. Win, yes, but have fun too. A lot of others at my lgs don't ever seem to have fun, even when they smash the entire table by locking everyone down, and durdle-combo to eventual victory.
It's really frustrating because there's only like 3 people I ENJOY playing with there, and I can't really go anywhere else since a good friend owns it and is struggling financially to keep it afloat. I feel like a traitor going anywhere else, since I always spend $10 minimum whenever I play anywhere and I want that $ to go to Joe. Plus, I always buy booster boxes and (usually) one of every commander product he carries.
February 15, 2020 12:49 a.m.
Steelspike I get the feeling me & you would have some pretty amazing games! :) ... & I personally am not a big "talk it out" guy myself. It seems so bizarre to me to have to explain to people that I'm playing a recreational card game... Fortunately, last time I dealt with one of these hyper-consistent types that had pre-rehearsed his entire tutor line I ulted his Windgrace with my pet-card, directed all targets back at him, & all cats at him, & somehow he was so flabbergasted because the move didn't advance me towards winning. I actually had to explain to the dude, to shut him up, that I wasn't going to win but I was focused on at least impacting the game & I was going to stop him from going 4/4 on friggen carbon-copy wins (this became my objective & was more fun than winning anyway). It is a unique psychology, when an individual is somehow surprised or delighted when a high consistency deck repeatedly performs as it was designed... The best you can hope for is actually the occasional borderline cEDH player who either: a) builds in a way that they have an option to "shake things up" or b) enjoys having their plan ruined & having to improvise..... When I did do some cEDH Sisay (which I stopped enjoying) I had reached a point where I had wanted my lockdown to get interrupted, just so I could see how things went off-script.
February 15, 2020 1:14 a.m.
DrukenReaps says... #23
Steelspike you are correct I don't know your group and I don't envy your group at all. I've run into issues with people but I've always been able to work it out. From my experience some of what you have written just seems like it would make things worse not better. But as you said you have attempted to communicate with these people a number of times and it hasn't worked.
February 15, 2020 2:28 a.m.
Steelspike says... #24
Sorry folks. I had long, impassioned responses to both of you all typed up, but tapped out did something and they were lost.
The gist, since I really don't feel like typing it all out again and honestly don't remember verbatim what I said, Gleeock We would probably have amazing games! I love trying to puzzle out how to overcome obstacles. That's part of the game.
DrukenReaps Thing is whatever I do never seems to have a lasting effect. Sure, they'll piss and pout and sometimes get up and go to another pod, but next week it's the same old shit.
February 15, 2020 3:15 p.m.
@Steelspike: You're correct, Shivam was talking like you for the first part of the video, which is exactly why the community has had such a problem with that video and an apology had to be issued. The cEDH community was drastically mischaracterized and people became upset by it. At the end of the day, it sounds like both you and he have both let a few bad apples color your opinion on a large group of people with a mentality different from yours.
February 16, 2020 12:28 a.m.
In theory, it may be a fun exercise to retread this idea & instead: "list 3 cards that exemplify your EDH philosophy".... Then expound.
February 16, 2020 9:17 a.m.
DrukenReaps says... #27
Gleeock sounds like you have a forum topic to make ;)
February 16, 2020 2:23 p.m.
I made a topic (at least as well as I know how). Called: Philosophy Represented.
February 17, 2020 8:53 a.m.
Dalektable says... #29
1) I don't care whether you win on turn three or turn thirteen, lets all shuffle up and play another game. No hard feelings.
2) Communicate what everyone is doing. I'm not going to sit here and play my cEDH consulation kess deck in a pod with a dinosaur deck, its just not cool.
3) Politics are a part of the game in this format, not only can you use them but you should
4) Takesies backsies are cool within reason - stop calling your rhystic study on the next players turn after multiple actions have happened. Please.
5) Have fun and don't be a jerk.
February 17, 2020 4:43 p.m.
Noire_Samhain says... #30
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Don't be a jerk. Players are allowed to not want to play with you and will not do so if you treat people like garbage.
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DON'T tell other players how they should have done something. Political moves are a thing. Newbies are a thing. Its not your deck, nor your game plan.
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Don't judge folks based on how much they spent on their decks. For some people, Magic is one of many fun hobbies and they have a life outside of. Others only spend money on Magic due to it being their only hobby.
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As long as there isn't a counter on stack and it was the last action you've taken, a take back is fine. Just don't do it too often and stretch your playgroup's patience.
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Accept you'll lose. Its ok to feel salty or upset with a game not going good, just don't... take it out on someone.
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Save the removal or counters for actual threats... don't remove a Sol Ring, or a Llanowar Elf, especially if they're behind already. Petty isn't fun to play against.
This is how I generally play the game, and its my general rules for playing with me especially 1 on 1. Its hard to annoy me.
Note, this is casual Commander- I have no values towards cEDH because I don't play at that level.
WhiteTrashMagic says... #2
I make sure sure to let people play their decks. I try not to lock people out unless I know the player/deck well enough to know it should be locked.
We always allow “take-backs” if someone caused an interaction they didn’t fully understand, or misunderstood. Example: terminate on a creature they didn’t know was indestructible.
We always help each other with what the better play would be for the board state for next time.
Never put down someone’s deck based on budget/skill level
I think most of us want to beat decks at their best, so I am always trying to help out on ideas for decks, new cards to look at, or how to help people understand the game batter.
February 12, 2020 1:35 p.m.