why is Vendilion Clique good in commander?
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Sept. 14, 2015, 9:52 a.m. by edrm
I have never seen it but somehow he is at the top... And I don't really understand how works his deck.... And also I don't know why Talrand, Sky Summoner is not at the top too... Thanks.
r_type_one says... #4
It stalls your opponents combo, giving you a clock with an opportunity to win.
September 14, 2015 10:27 a.m.
Hmmm but what's the winning condition? Mill or something?
September 14, 2015 10:31 a.m.
ThisIsBullshit says... #6
Tunnel Vision with Clique is usually gg in Duel Commander.
As for regular Commander, V-Clique intends to stall everyone else's combo and then combo out themselves.
September 14, 2015 10:36 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #7
Apart from Tunnel Vision decks, Vendilion Clique is not the win condition. It's a utility card. That's what it excels at being. Commanders don't have to be win conditions or directly involved in win conditions. As has been said, combo is usually the win condition; a control shell supports the combo.
September 14, 2015 10:46 a.m.
Tunnel Vision as said before. Spin into Myth also supports the Vendilion Clique combo.
You would assume Talrand, Sky Summoner would be at the top, but for some reason he just isn't. Li have been trying to find a good EDH build for him for a while now.
September 14, 2015 11:55 a.m.
I'm using talrand right now... It's pretty good.. Even if you don't have the money to buy some expensive cards... And he is kind of strong... It could resist a lot and then charge with all those tokens... Of course... Only if your opponent doesn't surrender before that.... But it's not in top... I don't understand why...
September 14, 2015 12:01 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
No.
Once again, the deck wins with whatever combo happens to form its core. Apart from TV decks, Clique is not part of the win condition. Not all Clique decks run TV, nor do they need to.
September 14, 2015 12:01 p.m.
Talrand, Sky Summoner can get you value for simply playing spells, but he's a bit of an investment. It's usually much easier to just combo off.
September 14, 2015 12:01 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
As for Talrand, the ability isn't good enough. The only way the tokens would be relevant is if you made enough of them to kill somebody. And the only way you can do that is with a low-impact, high-filter storm deck or with a combo. There are better combos n Commander, and storm without objectively good spells is not, well, good. Talrand is a gimmick commander, not a competitive one.
September 14, 2015 12:04 p.m.
I think what is confusing edrm is the fact that the commander isn't the win condition. You can certainly build a deck where Clique wins the games in some sort of Voltron shell, but that's not where Clique is the best.
There are two ways you can build a commander deck: one where the commander is built around, and one where the commander is not built around. Epochalyptik and others sit firmly in the "do not build around" camp, since that restricts your deck building choices and overall makes your deck worse. I sit in the "build around" camp, since I find commander more enjoyable when the commander is not some chump sitting on the sidelines.
September 14, 2015 1 p.m.
lemmingllama says... #15
@edrm In competitive, you need cards that win quickly or are extremely resilient. Talrand, Sky Summoner can't be cast until turn 3-4 normally, and then requires mana to cast enough spells to kill them with drakes. Assuming he isn't removed with Swords to Plowshares or other cheap removal and he isn't countered, he still needs a bunch of cantrips to make drakes. And then after making some drakes (lets say 5), it still needs another 3-5 turns of attacking to kill them. So you will be winning on turns 7-10, assuming your opponent doesn't interact at all. Meanwhile, Vendilion Clique does not need anything to be good. You can simply run a mono-
combo deck and flash him in to disrupt your opponent, which also means you can hold countermagic in place.
That being said, Talrand, Sky Summoner is great in less competitive playgroups. I am sure that you have had a good time using him, so don't worry about what the competitive users online say. You can continue to use him and win games with him.
September 14, 2015 1:43 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #16
The question is why is VC good in commander and the answer is she interacts very well and usually all upside in numorous combo's and can make herself very hard to play around but generally speaking you have to have played the card a while and gotten good with it to know how you want to set her up with your deck. If you want to know good parings look at the known combo's lists and study them then look at the answer cards to these plays and decide if your meta plays alot of these. This is what really makes her good or bad to you.
September 14, 2015 1:50 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #17
I don't get why Talrand is a subject in this thread so I won't comment on him. He has no comparison to VC.
r_type_one says... #2
It eats vital combo pieces.
September 14, 2015 10:22 a.m.