Win our shop debate #3
Commander (EDH) forum
Posted on Aug. 28, 2016, 8:44 p.m. by Deckologist
So tonight we've stayed open late to lay to rest which three colors are the best for control. Naturally the three involved in the debate refuse to budge. The Sulatai player says Esper. Esper player says Bant. Bant player says Sultai.
So which do you think wins the battle?
UpperDeckerTaco says... #3
It's dependent upon the format I feel. But my opinion is in Eternal formats, hands down Esper offers the best variety and flexibility to conquer any deck that comes along because of White being that niche color.
August 28, 2016 8:51 p.m.
Ya know, those of us who lean Naya have a word for all three?
Targets.
:-D
August 28, 2016 9:16 p.m.
not my area of expertise, but Esper seems to offer the best mix of the color pie.
August 28, 2016 9:23 p.m.
but ya know a the best control, is killing them before they can do anything.. Mardu FTW
August 28, 2016 9:28 p.m.
AloneTogether says... #8
In Commander? Abzan probably. The best control decks seek to dominate the game while building inevitable value. It's hard to build that value in multiplayer sitting back, countering and killing things, and drawing cards. You've got to deal with so much that you will miss something and that will spiral out of control for you.
Blue is great for controlling one player, but green, black, and white give you the tools to control the whole game. Card advantage by itself doesn't do it, because in a four player game you need 4-for-1's to start generating pure card advantage. Threat advantage is much better way to control the game, as Commander is very much a game of threats.
Now blue is still the best colour in Commander, but that's because of how it fuels combo, not control.
August 28, 2016 9:38 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #9
esper is best for CONTROL but sultai is best for value control, combo, and overall good stuff. bant is best for board control with wraths and hard to kill creatures.
August 28, 2016 10:10 p.m.
I mean, in competitive EDH, a lot of the strongest control decks are usually Stax because in a 4 player game it is easier to insure your opponents don't have enough resources to keep threats around than it is to counter all their threats. This pretty much necessitates having Black, and in many cases White. The last color decides how you'll survive your own stax effects. Green can ramp and generate tokens to fuel your stax engines. Blue can generate card advantage and has many infinite combos that can be easily assembled. Red is only really an option if you have a gimmick or are going heavily into artifacts and have ways to reliable get Goblin Welder and Daretti out.
White or Black is pretty much mandatory although having both isn't necessary. Black stax can recover more in mid-late game since sacrificing lands and creatures is almost always relevant. White has more taxing effects so you need to create a lock early or else fast ramping decks can get ahead of you.
Depends on the matchup and the group playing. In general for 1v1s though, I'd imagine Esper would beat Sultai, Sultai would beat Bant, and Bant hatebears could probably beat Esper.
August 28, 2016 10:46 p.m. Edited.
Mono green control. You control them when you kill them. But for real I would say esper
August 28, 2016 11:23 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
Sultai will edge out other colors 9 times out of 10.
In competitive EDH it's a race to see who can combo faster or assemble a critical mass of stax effects while simultaneously disrupting your opponents from doing the same.
Green is one of the most important colors, it gives you ramp and plenty of creature tutors and finishers.
Black is tutor heaven, all the tutors. Oh and mass removal. Toxic deluge and damnation just get almost everything.
Blue protects you when it's time to go off, you about to combo out but someone's got a pesky killspell/counterspell? Fire off one of your own, there are plenty of free counters in commander.
Red and white are known as the weakest colors in commander for a reason, the only real reasons to run Red is for wheel effects, some utility spells like mass land destruction, and because some commanders require red for their identity (looking at you Narset).
White is alright but it's usually best as a support color, it doesn't bring a whole lot to play aside from some of the better spot removal in the game so there's that.
For reference I've played a commander of every color combination including mono and every time I play BUG I feel like the game is on easymode.
August 29, 2016 12:12 a.m.
I vote sultai, because the most controlling player is usually the one with the most card advantage (blue and black draw/tutor/hard counters/bounce) and the greatest quantity of resources for which to utilize the in-hand card advantage (green ramp, black and blue enchantments).
August 29, 2016 1:46 a.m.
For EDH, the best colors are by far, Green and Blue. The next best one is Black for all the tutors, so Sultai is the best in EDH.
In most other formats, esper provides the best answers and late-game threats.
August 29, 2016 11:10 a.m.
mountainturtle93 says... #15
I prefer bant for my control route, green for ramp with artifact and enchantment hate, white for spot removal/ board whipeople evasion, and blue for card draw counters and and for my infinite mana shenanigans. White alison helps me hate bear the board down while I get my engine going.
August 29, 2016 11:36 a.m.
00xtremeninja says... #16
Mono Red.
Why? Because some of the best things in life are red and kick ass. Red Forman, he doesn't care if you are some intelligent mind trickster (blue) some holy angel (white) a big bad tough guy (green) or a mystical grim asshole (black). He'll kick your dick in and not think twice.
Frank's Red Hot. Delicious on pizza, which if I recall, has a RED sauce that makes it delicious. If you are one of those Alfredo pizza (white) nut huggers, you can gtfo.
Big Red......the gum or the soda, take your pick. Cinnamon gum is a nice break from the mint (blue/green) and sometimes you need an off the wall soda choice other than cola, mtn dew, or sprite (black, green, white).
So yeah.....mono red biznitches
August 29, 2016 4:21 p.m.
Playing devil's advocate-many of the roles that make white a good control color are also in black (some better, some worse), in addition to black's own specialties (stax, tutor, draw). Every Wrath of God has its Damnation equivalent, and every Path to Exile has a Doom Blade or Victim of Night that while more conditional, does not give the opponent resources (which control shouldn't always be doing). Every Ghostly Prison has a Koskun Falls or No Mercy, and each white tax card has an equivalent stax card in black.
In summary-why it gotta be white?
McKz says... #2
blue black white, would be the best. blue for your normal blue things, black for tutors and sac to control the field even more and then white for the amount for removal and lock down cards, of course this is my opinion but ya know
August 28, 2016 8:46 p.m.